2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

[Perisno]

I know war isn't pretty, but we need to be willing to defend ourselves and our democratic allies against communists, religious fanatics, and other tyrants. Cowardly isolationism and making excuses for foreign dictators is not virtuous.

One of our closest allies in the world is Saudi Arabia, one of the most repressive states on Earth and absolutely the most oppressive theocracy in the world (I suppose you could make a case that North Korea is a theocracy with Juche as the religion, but it's pretty questionable whether or not Juche even actually exists in practice, so I'm sticking with Saudi on that).

The US also has a very long and well-document history of overthrowing (nationalist) democratic governments and replacing them with repressive, pro-US puppet dictators (especially in Latin America, but other places, too). Our foreign policy is built around maximizing our control of resources and geopolitical power, not "spreading democracy."

Good job, you're buying into lies once again. Saudi Arabia is not oppressive in any way, I know more than a full people from there, and they all say the same thing- oppression is not a thing in Saudi Arabia. In fact, feminist and liberal movements in Saudia go uninterrupted by their government. Sure, it isn't a democracy, but if you don't want Israel as an ally, we will have to maintain ties with Saudia at least. Instead of focusing on isolating our allies, lets focus on the truly repressive, theocratic dictator in the ME- Iran.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

One of our closest allies in the world is Saudi Arabia, one of the most repressive states on Earth and absolutely the most oppressive theocracy in the world (I suppose you could make a case that North Korea is a theocracy with Juche as the religion, but it's pretty questionable whether or not Juche even actually exists in practice, so I'm sticking with Saudi on that).

The US also has a very long and well-document history of overthrowing (nationalist) democratic governments and replacing them with repressive, pro-US puppet dictators (especially in Latin America, but other places, too). Our foreign policy is built around maximizing our control of resources and geopolitical power, not "spreading democracy."

Good job, you're buying into lies once again. Saudi Arabia is not oppressive in any way, I know more than a full people from there, and they all say the same thing- oppression is not a thing in Saudi Arabia. In fact, feminist and liberal movements in Saudia go uninterrupted by their government. Sure, it isn't a democracy, but if you don't want Israel as an ally, we will have to maintain ties with Saudia at least. Instead of focusing on isolating our allies, lets focus on the truly repressive, theocratic dictator in the ME- Iran.

You, too, could ask a bunch of Chinese people in the street and they would say the same thing. Yet do you trust them?

[Byzconia]

One of our closest allies in the world is Saudi Arabia, one of the most repressive states on Earth and absolutely the most oppressive theocracy in the world (I suppose you could make a case that North Korea is a theocracy with Juche as the religion, but it's pretty questionable whether or not Juche even actually exists in practice, so I'm sticking with Saudi on that).

The US also has a very long and well-document history of overthrowing (nationalist) democratic governments and replacing them with repressive, pro-US puppet dictators (especially in Latin America, but other places, too). Our foreign policy is built around maximizing our control of resources and geopolitical power, not "spreading democracy."

Good job, you're buying into lies once again. Saudi Arabia is not oppressive in any way, I know more than a full people from there, and they all say the same thing- oppression is not a thing in Saudi Arabia. In fact, feminist and liberal movements in Saudia go uninterrupted by their government. Sure, it isn't a democracy, but if you don't want Israel as an ally, we will have to maintain ties with Saudia at least. Instead of focusing on isolating our allies, lets focus on the truly repressive, theocratic dictator in the ME- Iran.

Holy shit, somebody actually shilling for Saudi Arabia. Jesus Christ. Yes, those movement are so "uninterrupted" that women just gained the ability to drive a car. Women in Saudi Arabia are legally required to be covered head-to-toe when outside of their homes and can't go anywhere without being accompanied by a man. The country's ranked 159th in the Democracy Index (for reference, North Korea is 167th) and you can get executed for such heinous crimes as "being an atheist." They also dismembered a journalist.

But oh boy, you've got the all-powerful anecdotal evidence. Guess what? I also know people from Saudi Arabia and they're utterly terrified by the idea of having to go back there and have tried as hard as possible to stay in the US. Anecdotes aren't worth a goddamned thing. (By the way, "goddamned"? Yeah, saying that is punishable by death over there.)

[The Sherpa Empire]

Good job, you're buying into lies once again. Saudi Arabia is not oppressive in any way, I know more than a full people from there, and they all say the same thing- oppression is not a thing in Saudi Arabia. In fact, feminist and liberal movements in Saudia go uninterrupted by their government. Sure, it isn't a democracy, but if you don't want Israel as an ally, we will have to maintain ties with Saudia at least. Instead of focusing on isolating our allies, lets focus on the truly repressive, theocratic dictator in the ME- Iran.

You, too, could ask a bunch of Chinese people in the street and they would say the same thing. Yet do you trust them?

When I lived in China, a lot of Chinese people that I talked to said they wanted their government to become more democratic.

And they're no more untrustworthy than Americans.

This is not to say Saudia Arabia has no issues of any kind. It has plenty of issues. But there's no need to dehumanize or devalue people just because they are from a country that has some authoritarian bullshit.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

Moderates aka in the pocket of the war lobby, fossil fuels lobby and pharmaceutical lobby too.

Moderate democrats are just republicans without a total obvious asshole for a boss

I know war isn't pretty, but we need to be willing to defend ourselves and our democratic allies against communists, religious fanatics, and other tyrants. Cowardly isolationism and making excuses for foreign dictators is not virtuous.

You're right, the United States needs to do more to stop dictators like Augusto Pinochet, Alfredo Stroessner and Fulgencio Batista, who murdered tens of thousands of people, disappeared many tens of thousands more and kept a violent watch on their citizens via a brutal secret police.

Oh wait, they were all backed by the US.

[Diopolis]

Good job, you're buying into lies once again. Saudi Arabia is not oppressive in any way, I know more than a full people from there, and they all say the same thing- oppression is not a thing in Saudi Arabia. In fact, feminist and liberal movements in Saudia go uninterrupted by their government. Sure, it isn't a democracy, but if you don't want Israel as an ally, we will have to maintain ties with Saudia at least. Instead of focusing on isolating our allies, lets focus on the truly repressive, theocratic dictator in the ME- Iran.

Holy shit, somebody actually shilling for Saudi Arabia. Jesus Christ. Yes, those movement are so "uninterrupted" that women just gained the ability to drive a car. Women in Saudi Arabia are legally required to be covered head-to-toe when outside of their homes and can't go anywhere without being accompanied by a man. The country's ranked 159th in the Democracy Index (for reference, North Korea is 167th) and you can get executed for such heinous crimes as "being an atheist." They also dismembered a journalist.

But oh boy, you've got the all-powerful anecdotal evidence. Guess what? I also know people from Saudi Arabia and they're utterly terrified by the idea of having to go back there and have tried as hard as possible to stay in the US. Anecdotes aren't worth a goddamned thing. (By the way, "goddamned"? Yeah, saying that is punishable by death over there.)

Doesn’t Saudi have a bajillion death penalties on the books that are in practice not used all that much?

[Torrocca]

I can't wait for Sanders to sweep up Iowa and the rest of the primary states, ngl. Shit's hype as hell, but we can't stop fighting even when he does.

Also, I saw that a new lie made up by Warren came out in the form of an ad: this time, of all things, calling her dad a fucking janitor so she can pretend to relate to the working class. Her own brother even called her out on that bullshit. Her dad was a maintenance man for a brief period of time, which isn't interchangeable with being a janitor and isn't even something she needs to be lying about - it's still a working-class job!

All of it just reminds me of this little video that perfectly sums up Warren's strategy for the campaign, tbh.

[San Lumen]

I can't wait for Sanders to sweep up Iowa and the rest of the primary states, ngl. Shit's hype as hell, but we can't stop fighting even when he does.

Also, I saw that a new lie made up by Warren came out in the form of an ad: this time, of all things, calling her dad a fucking janitor so she can pretend to relate to the working class. Her own brother even called her out on that bullshit. Her dad was a maintenance man for a brief period of time, which isn't interchangeable with being a janitor and isn't even something she needs to be lying about - it's still a working-class job!

All of it just reminds me of this little video that perfectly sums up Warren's strategy for the campaign, tbh.

enjoy losing the general election and the House.

[Idzequitch]

I can't wait for Sanders to sweep up Iowa and the rest of the primary states, ngl. Shit's hype as hell, but we can't stop fighting even when he does.

Also, I saw that a new lie made up by Warren came out in the form of an ad: this time, of all things, calling her dad a fucking janitor so she can pretend to relate to the working class. Her own brother even called her out on that bullshit. Her dad was a maintenance man for a brief period of time, which isn't interchangeable with being a janitor and isn't even something she needs to be lying about - it's still a working-class job!

All of it just reminds me of this little video that perfectly sums up Warren's strategy for the campaign, tbh.

enjoy losing the general election and the House.

Are you gonna use the same recycled response every time anyone says anything positive about Sanders?

[Torrocca]

I can't wait for Sanders to sweep up Iowa and the rest of the primary states, ngl. Shit's hype as hell, but we can't stop fighting even when he does.

Also, I saw that a new lie made up by Warren came out in the form of an ad: this time, of all things, calling her dad a fucking janitor so she can pretend to relate to the working class. Her own brother even called her out on that bullshit. Her dad was a maintenance man for a brief period of time, which isn't interchangeable with being a janitor and isn't even something she needs to be lying about - it's still a working-class job!

All of it just reminds me of this little video that perfectly sums up Warren's strategy for the campaign, tbh.

enjoy losing the general election and the House.

All the polls say otherwise. Your Liberal elitism isn't going to win over the working class and our votes. Bernie, however, is and will.

[Byzconia]

Holy shit, somebody actually shilling for Saudi Arabia. Jesus Christ. Yes, those movement are so "uninterrupted" that women just gained the ability to drive a car. Women in Saudi Arabia are legally required to be covered head-to-toe when outside of their homes and can't go anywhere without being accompanied by a man. The country's ranked 159th in the Democracy Index (for reference, North Korea is 167th) and you can get executed for such heinous crimes as "being an atheist." They also dismembered a journalist.

But oh boy, you've got the all-powerful anecdotal evidence. Guess what? I also know people from Saudi Arabia and they're utterly terrified by the idea of having to go back there and have tried as hard as possible to stay in the US. Anecdotes aren't worth a goddamned thing. (By the way, "goddamned"? Yeah, saying that is punishable by death over there.)

Doesn’t Saudi have a bajillion death penalties on the books that are in practice not used all that much?

Given the very closed off nature of Saudi Arabia's political system (i.e. lack of transparency), it's hard to ascertain whether they're used much in practice or not. There's also the fact that laws are often selectively applied and trials are often unfair for defendants, as Cornell University explains:

It should be noted that the approach to sentencing for tazir crimes is fundamentally unfair to the defendant. If a defendant stands trial and successfully convinces one of three judges that he should not be executed for a tazir offense, Saudi law requires that two additional judges be appointed to consider the matter along with the original 3-judge panel. A simple majority of the new panel of five judges may sentence the defendant to death. [37] This is somewhat ameliorated by the requirement of unanimity on appeal. [38]

Individuals who appeal their sentences may be submitted to harsher sentences since judges on appeal have extensive discretion to modify the sentence imposed. Amnesty International reports that trial procedures are secretive and that opportunity to guarantee a fair trial by engaging in appellate review is extremely limited. [39] Human Rights Watch reports extensive abuse of pre-trial detainees and judicial participation in forcing illegitimate confessions in some capital cases; [40] communications of the Human Rights Council support such contentions [41] and a number of human rights organizations not controlled by the Saudi government report systematic abuse by authorities, including torture for the purpose of extracting confessions or simply for punishment. [42] Human Rights Watch reports some positive rulings (in 2009) regarding protecting the defendant’s right to representation, [43] which could help reduce the state’s ability to deny defendants’ other rights with impunity—although courts may sanction zealous advocates. [44]

Finally, women have been severely penalized when they are victimized by men—sometimes on the grounds that the woman has stepped out of the limits of the severely restrictive guardianship system, and sometimes because judges simply do not apply Shari’a rules protecting a woman who alleges she has been raped. Women who are raped can—if they make the state authority aware by complaining, or if they become pregnant—be prosecuted for the capital offense of zina, and courts have not complied with principles that would prevent the application of the hadd in cases where rape is alleged. [45]

Source: http://dpw.law.cornell.edu/country-search-post.cfm?country=Saudi+Arabia

And, of course, as shown by Kashoggi's murder, extrajudicial killings are perfectly within the regime's repertoire (god knows how many other, less well-known people have been killed like that before or since).

[Telconi]

enjoy losing the general election and the House.

All the polls say otherwise. Your Liberal elitism isn't going to win over the working class and our votes. Bernie, however, is and will.

I don't think anyone is going to "win over the working class"

[The Sherpa Empire]

enjoy losing the general election and the House.

All the polls say otherwise. Your Liberal elitism isn't going to win over the working class and our votes. Bernie, however, is and will.

I work in a warehouse and I make $20K a year. I think Bernie Sanders is a divisive ass and I'm sick of this narrative about how he's the "only" candidate that's fighting for real change. Stop trying to speak for my whole income bracket.

[Byzconia]

All the polls say otherwise. Your Liberal elitism isn't going to win over the working class and our votes. Bernie, however, is and will.

I work in a warehouse and I make $20K a year. I think Bernie Sanders is a divisive ass and I'm sick of this narrative about how he's the "only" candidate that's fighting for real change. Stop trying to speak for my whole income bracket.

"Divisive" in regards to what?

[Kargintina the Third]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

[Byzconia]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Funny, considering that Sanders beats Trump head-to-head in almost every poll.

[Marxist Germany]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Yang would make for a fun race too.

[Perisno]

Good job, you're buying into lies once again. Saudi Arabia is not oppressive in any way, I know more than a full people from there, and they all say the same thing- oppression is not a thing in Saudi Arabia. In fact, feminist and liberal movements in Saudia go uninterrupted by their government. Sure, it isn't a democracy, but if you don't want Israel as an ally, we will have to maintain ties with Saudia at least. Instead of focusing on isolating our allies, lets focus on the truly repressive, theocratic dictator in the ME- Iran.

Holy shit, somebody actually shilling for Saudi Arabia. Jesus Christ. Yes, those movement are so "uninterrupted" that women just gained the ability to drive a car. Women in Saudi Arabia are legally required to be covered head-to-toe when outside of their homes and can't go anywhere without being accompanied by a man. The country's ranked 159th in the Democracy Index (for reference, North Korea is 167th) and you can get executed for such heinous crimes as "being an atheist." They also dismembered a journalist.

But oh boy, you've got the all-powerful anecdotal evidence. Guess what? I also know people from Saudi Arabia and they're utterly terrified by the idea of having to go back there and have tried as hard as possible to stay in the US. Anecdotes aren't worth a goddamned thing. (By the way, "goddamned"? Yeah, saying that is punishable by death over there.)

Yeah, they are uninterrupted. If they weren't, they wouldn't be driving cars today. The country is still heavily conservative and theocratic, I never objected to that. However, they aren't nearly as repressive as they are made out to be. It's modernizing and liberalizing quickly, and women's rights in the nation is on the upswing. And again, they aren't democratic. That doesn't mean they are oppressive, however. And they didn't dismember a journalist, the murderers who committed that heinous crime were sentenced to death. And also, source on the 'goddamn' claim? Looking it up, I see no mention of that anywhere.

[Marxist Germany]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Funny, considering that Sanders beats Trump head-to-head in almost every poll.

Hillary was also polling above Trump, she didn't win though.

[San Lumen]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Funny, considering that Sanders beats Trump head-to-head in almost every poll.

Right now he does

[Zurkerx]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Funny, considering that Sanders beats Trump head-to-head in almost every poll.

National polls mean nothing in all honesty, especially this early in the game, although they accurately predicted Clinton won the Popular Vote. What matters are the States and they go back and forth for Sanders; he loses to Trump in Iowa.

[Liriena]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Sanders is the most popular politician in the United States, but your delusion sure is helpful to the socialist cause. Keep it up. :3

[Torrocca]

All the polls say otherwise. Your Liberal elitism isn't going to win over the working class and our votes. Bernie, however, is and will.

I work in a warehouse and I make $20K a year. I think Bernie Sanders is a divisive ass and I'm sick of this narrative about how he's the "only" candidate that's fighting for real change. Stop trying to speak for my whole income bracket.

The data quite clearly shows that Sanders gets the most support from us in the working class by a massive margin.

Obviously not every worker is gonna support Bernie "so-called divisive ass" Sanders. In general, though, he's got the working-class vote.

[Telconi]

I hope Bernie gets the nomination so the Dems lose easier

Sanders is the most popular politician in the United States, but your delusion sure is helpful to the socialist cause. Keep it up. :3

Luckily, socialism isn't helpful to the socialist cause.

[Liriena]

I know war isn't pretty, but we need to be willing to defend ourselves and our democratic allies against communists, religious fanatics, and other tyrants. Cowardly isolationism and making excuses for foreign dictators is not virtuous.

You're right, the United States needs to do more to stop dictators like Augusto Pinochet, Alfredo Stroessner and Fulgencio Batista, who murdered tens of thousands of people, disappeared many tens of thousands more and kept a violent watch on their citizens via a brutal secret police.

Oh wait, they were all backed by the US.

Also, "our democratic allies"? Is this poster talking about Saudi Arabia?