UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Celritannia]

Who's ready for a second spike?

Not me, never had much talent for volleyball.

Who's ready for a second spike?

But how can there be a second spike with all that clapping people did?

HA!

[Celritannia]

"While you clap for the NHS, we shall steal the hard work they did".

[Nuroblav]

"While you clap for the NHS, we shall steal the hard work they did".

Not that slapping our hands in support did much anyway to be honest, but yeah that sucks.

[The Islands of Versilia]

"While you clap for the NHS, we shall steal the hard work they did".

Is it fair to say the government is acting in a treasonous fashion? Backstabbing and literally working against the interests of the people in the pursuit of their own, private gains? God, N10 is full of scoundrels.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Who's ready for a second spike?

Everything will be fine, nobody will die, smile and be happy

[Andsed]

Who's ready for a second spike?

Everything will be fine, nobody will die, smile and be happy

What world are you living in?

[The Islands of Versilia]

Everything will be fine, nobody will die, smile and be happy

What world are you living in?

I think he’s high on his Free-Market(TM) Columbian recreational substance.

Note this is sarcasm.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Everything will be fine, nobody will die, smile and be happy

What world are you living in?

I'm not sure, it changes every Tuesday.

[Alyakia]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53279273

infamous twit david starkey is gone. kinda forgot he existed for a while but i guess he was still trucking with those hot takes. hard to tell if he's playing a character or is legit this edgy.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53279273

infamous twit david starkey is gone. kinda forgot he existed for a while but i guess he was still trucking with those hot takes. hard to tell if he's playing a character or is legit this edgy.

FFS, universities shouldn't have 'views.' They should be spaces that accept any point of view.

[Celritannia]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53279273

infamous twit david starkey is gone. kinda forgot he existed for a while but i guess he was still trucking with those hot takes. hard to tell if he's playing a character or is legit this edgy.

FFS, universities shouldn't have 'views.' They should be spaces that accept any point of view.

Not any point of view.

[Vassenor]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53279273

infamous twit david starkey is gone. kinda forgot he existed for a while but i guess he was still trucking with those hot takes. hard to tell if he's playing a character or is legit this edgy.

FFS, universities shouldn't have 'views.' They should be spaces that accept any point of view.

"Stop calling Slavery genocide because many damn blacks survived so it can't be that bad" is a good view to hold?

EDIT: Misquote corrected.

[Kragholm Free States]

FFS, universities shouldn't have 'views.' They should be spaces that accept any point of view.

Not any point of view.

Well obviously there are limits in terms of what can actually be justified with the requisite academic rigour, yes. But as crudely (and yes, racistly) (is racistly a word?) phrased as it was by Dr Starkey, the notion that slavery was not a genocide because it neither aimed to wipe out black Africans nor came anywhere close to succeeding in doing so is a valid one.

"Too many damn blacks survived slavery" is a good view to hold?

Unless you want universities to play moral arbiters of society, it's not about 'good' views.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I don't think David Starkey meant too many black people survived, he meant too many black people survived slavery for it to be called genocide. However that is also quite a stupid thing to say, as it implies that because quite a lot of Jews survived the holocaust it wasn't somehow genocidal. I don't think you need to totally succeed for something to deserve the title of genocide.

[Fartsniffage]

Not any point of view.

Well obviously there are limits in terms of what can actually be justified with the requisite academic rigour, yes. But as crudely (and yes, racistly) (is racistly a word?) phrased as it was by Dr Starkey, the notion that slavery was not a genocide because it neither aimed to wipe out black Africans nor came anywhere close to succeeding in doing so is a valid one.

"Too many damn blacks survived slavery" is a good view to hold?

Unless you want universities to play moral arbiters of society, it's not about 'good' views.

British universities are this weird mix of public and private. They're using their private bit to say "get off my lawn" to a racist. I see no issue with that.

[Ostroeuropa]

The argument itself isn't sackable, even if you disagree with it imo. The "damned blacks" part may well be, but it would depend on his reaction to being prompted on that part specifically. Sacking him without seeking clarification, apology, or retraction, is a sign of the times, and the kind of terror tactics that have become the norm for the identity politics left. It's precisely that punitive zero tolerance atmosphere that leads to overcorrection and open hostility to white people and men, which may well be why they support it.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well obviously there are limits in terms of what can actually be justified with the requisite academic rigour, yes. But as crudely (and yes, racistly) (is racistly a word?) phrased as it was by Dr Starkey, the notion that slavery was not a genocide because it neither aimed to wipe out black Africans nor came anywhere close to succeeding in doing so is a valid one.



Unless you want universities to play moral arbiters of society, it's not about 'good' views.

British universities are this weird mix of public and private. They're using their private bit to say "get off my lawn" to a racist. I see no issue with that.

It's not their lawn though is it. It's an institution in private hands, which should never really be the case in the first place precisely because it warps society in this fashion and gives far too much power over the state to a small group of individuals who wield parallel sources of institutional power and are not accountable to the public.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I thought they accepted his resignation rather than sacking him.

[Ostroeuropa]

I thought they accepted his resignation rather than sacking him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 99831.html

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I thought they accepted his resignation rather than sacking him.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 99831.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53279273

Edit: I thought we were talking about his Cambridge job, so yes he resigned from one and was sacked from the other.

[Kragholm Free States]

Well obviously there are limits in terms of what can actually be justified with the requisite academic rigour, yes. But as crudely (and yes, racistly) (is racistly a word?) phrased as it was by Dr Starkey, the notion that slavery was not a genocide because it neither aimed to wipe out black Africans nor came anywhere close to succeeding in doing so is a valid one.



Unless you want universities to play moral arbiters of society, it's not about 'good' views.

British universities are this weird mix of public and private. They're using their private bit to say "get off my lawn" to a racist. I see no issue with that.

I am familiar with British universities, I've done my time in one and am shortly going back for more because I'm a sucker for punishment

I'm not really disputing the specific example of Dr Starkey's comment, because it was expressed particularly terribly - a man who certainly could have made his argument in a far better way consciously opted for laziness and abrasiveness. And certainly the university has the right to get rid of him for that. I was really more embracing the general point that universities should be spaces accepting of any point of view (that can be expressed and discussed in an appropriate academic fashion), an ideal that some of them do seem to be drifting rather rapidly away from.

[Fartsniffage]

British universities are this weird mix of public and private. They're using their private bit to say "get off my lawn" to a racist. I see no issue with that.

It's not their lawn though is it. It's an institution in private hands, which should never really be the case in the first place precisely because it warps society in this fashion and gives far too much power over the state to a small group of individuals who wield parallel sources of institutional power and are not accountable to the public.

They gave him a pass after he said "whites had become black" over the riots in 2011. No second chance for him.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

It's not their lawn though is it. It's an institution in private hands, which should never really be the case in the first place precisely because it warps society in this fashion and gives far too much power over the state to a small group of individuals who wield parallel sources of institutional power and are not accountable to the public.

They gave him a pass after he said "whites had become black" over the riots in 2011. No second chance for him.

What did he do that was so bad though? I'm fast coming to the conclusion that speech, outside of a few tiny examples (defamation, a really narrowly-defined incitement to violence) cannot be bad, because what it is is someones opinion made words. Even if he'd said 'slavery wasn't a genocide because so many damn blacks survived, which is regretable' or something similar he is well within his rights as an academic to hold such views and to express them without being made to feel that his academic appointments will be jeopardised.

[Ostroeuropa]

On Welsh Devolution and living in welsh towns and cities under a perpetual Labour government;

They've done quite a lot of good things for welsh culture and language, mostly focusing on the arts and so on.
One big change i'm very supportive of is the "Bringer of change" rules they added to noise pollution standards.
Essentially, if you open up a housing bloc in the midst of a bunch of pubs, you can't then whine and make noise complaints. Similarly, if you open up a pub next to a house, you must adhere to the standards for housing and so on.
Before that it was pure "Whatever houses say, goes", but that was gradually eroding cultural and music centres in welsh cities as more and more housing was converted, so they brought in the bringer of change amendment to preserve cultural centres.
They've helped revive the welsh language, lots of music, arts, cultural stuff. They opened a massive international studio where lots of films and television are now made for the actor types and so on, bringing in lots of stable jobs for students who go in for that sort of thing.
Other than that?
Basically fuck all mate. They seem to think that if they can make Wales a very musical, artsy, welshy place, then people will keep voting for them for the devolved government on the basis that "Well the people who vote for devolved government elections like wales, so lets demonstrate we're the party for welsh cultural ubermensch.".
Whereas really it's more like "Please save us from the tories. please save us from the tories. Not everyone can be employed as an artist. Please save us from the tories.".
When they respond; "What's that? I heard someone say artist. MORE ART FUNDING!" it gradually drops support until you get desperate shit like Brexit.
It's also arguably a quite sinister form of them being able to say "Look, isn't wales much better off now.".
I mean.
It's shinier, it's got more statues and cool buildings and stuff, it used to be kind of a dump, but mate, I can't afford shoes for my kids. The roads being paved with chrome and inscribed with hipster poetry doesn't really help with that.
No no, we can keep it, I like it. But... shoes.
It just feels like a massive gentrification project that has gone mental tbh. The only saving grace being almost no one wants to move to wales, so the gentrification just leaves a bunch of bewildered poor people standing amidst a gentrified area where the houses remain the same price because no rich people turn up to spark a price war.

[Fartsniffage]

On Welsh Devolution and living in welsh towns and cities under a perpetual Labour government;

They've done quite a lot of good things for welsh culture and language, mostly focusing on the arts and so on.
One big change i'm very supportive of is the "Bringer of change" rules they added to noise pollution standards.
Essentially, if you open up a housing bloc in the midst of a bunch of pubs, you can't then whine and make noise complaints. Similarly, if you open up a pub next to a house, you must adhere to the standards for housing and so on.
Before that it was pure "Whatever houses say, goes", but that was gradually eroding cultural and music centres in welsh cities as more and more housing was converted, so they brought in the bringer of change amendment to preserve cultural centres.
They've helped revive the welsh language, lots of music, arts, cultural stuff. They opened a massive international studio where lots of films and television are now made for the actor types and so on, bringing in lots of stable jobs for students who go in for that sort of thing.
Other than that?
Basically fuck all mate. They seem to think that if they can make Wales a very musical, artsy, welshy place, then people will keep voting for them for the devolved government on the basis that "Well the people who vote for devolved government elections like wales, so lets demonstrate we're the party for welsh cultural ubermensch.".
Whereas really it's more like "Please save us from the tories. please save us from the tories. Not everyone can be employed as an artist. Please save us from the tories.".
When they respond; "What's that? I heard someone say artist. MORE ART FUNDING!" it gradually drops support until you get desperate shit like Brexit.
It's also arguably a quite sinister form of them being able to say "Look, isn't wales much better off now.".
I mean.
It's shinier, it's got more statues and cool buildings and stuff, it used to be kind of a dump, but mate, I can't afford shoes for my kids. The roads being paved with chrome and inscribed with hipster poetry doesn't really help with that.
No no, we can keep it, I like it. But... shoes.
It just feels like a massive gentrification project that has gone mental tbh. The only saving grace being almost no one wants to move to wales, so the gentrification just leaves a bunch of bewildered poor people standing amidst a gentrified area where the houses remain the same price because no rich people turn up to spark a price war.

Well yes, it sucks to be Welsh. But when hasn't that been true?