UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Imagine being antifa and defacing the statue of the leading anti-fascist of his day.

[The Islands of Versilia]

Imagine being antifa and defacing the statue of the leading anti-fascist of his day.

From what I hear some BLM lot defaced a monument to an all-black American military regiment recently. Sometimes people don’t really think very far.

[Celritannia]

Imagine being antifa and defacing the statue of the leading anti-fascist of his day.

I wonder if people will then refuse to accept or burn the BoE £5 note.

[Thanatttynia]

Honestly I've been in denial for a while about the extent to which the kinds of Americanised woke nonsense I've seen over the years on the internet has seeped into our society... I always comforted myself whenever I encountered something egregious by saying its just something entertained by anons online that would never have a real-world effect. But this past month has been pretty eye opening to me, lol.

I don't want to be a radical I just want to live my life in peace uwu but at this point there's no use pretending we're not deep into the culture war already, better buckle up whatever you believe in. I really feel like I'm going insane at this point

As far as the statue in Bristol goes I don't have any particular opinion on it beyond generally supporting the upkeep of historical monuments. But it's about the principle - we can't let angry mobs go round destroying public property because they feel like it. Desecration of war memorials, burning of flags, vandalisation of statues of national heroes etc. is of course shocking; however if these people want to test their popularity in this country against the war dead I say let them. Clearly the authorities have no interest in stopping such abuses but I think they're jumping the gun in terms of public opinion

I guess what most struck me about the statue being pulled down is that these people sincerely believe they're committing a revolutionary act. Now we reap the consequences of the raising of my generation on YA fiction lmao

[Bear Stearns]

Talking about statues getting vandalized during black lives matter protests in the UK.
This happened today too:

(Image)

It happened in Westminster.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 53476.html

I personal opinion of Churchill is that he was a corrupt, alcoholic warmonger who helped push the American people into a fight that wasn't theirs, but even I wouldn't vandalize his statue.

[Celritannia]

Honestly I've been in denial for a while about the extent to which the kinds of Americanised woke nonsense I've seen over the years on the internet has seeped into our society... I always comforted myself whenever I encountered something egregious by saying its just something entertained by anons online that would never have a real-world effect. But this past month has been pretty eye opening to me, lol.

I don't want to be a radical I just want to live my life in peace uwu but at this point there's no use pretending we're not deep into the culture war already, better buckle up whatever you believe in. I really feel like I'm going insane at this point

As far as the statue in Bristol goes I don't have any particular opinion on it beyond generally supporting the upkeep of historical monuments. But it's about the principle - we can't let angry mobs go round destroying public property because they feel like it. Desecration of war memorials, burning of flags, vandalisation of statues of national heroes etc. is of course shocking; however if these people want to test their popularity in this country against the war dead I say let them. Clearly the authorities have no interest in stopping such abuses but I think they're jumping the gun in terms of public opinion

I guess what most struck me about the statue being pulled down is that these people sincerely believe they're committing a revolutionary act. Now we reap the consequences of the raising of my generation on YA fiction lmao

I didn't realise standing against systematic racism was considered "woke" now.
But the internet has nothing to do with these protests.

While the removal of the statue was a little over the top, I also don't disagree with how it was removed either, especially in the light of the situation and the lack of Bristol Council being slow on the matter.
But monuments can be rebuilt or replaced, humans lives cannot.

YA fiction has nothing to do with people's anger of the racism in police forces.

[Celritannia]

Talking about statues getting vandalized during black lives matter protests in the UK.
This happened today too:

(Image)

It happened in Westminster.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 53476.html

I personal opinion of Churchill is that he was a corrupt, alcoholic warmonger who helped push the American people into a fight that wasn't theirs, but even I wouldn't vandalize his statue.

America was funding the UK long before they joined anyway, so it was nothing to do with Churchill. There are many problems you can point out about him, rather than something that didn't actually happen.

[Thanatttynia]

I didn't realise standing against systematic racism was considered "woke" now.
But the internet has nothing to do with these protests.

While the removal of the statue was a little over the top, I also don't disagree with how it was removed either, especially in the light of the situation and the lack of Bristol Council being slow on the matter.
But monuments can be rebuilt or replaced, humans lives cannot.

YA fiction has nothing to do with people's anger of the racism in police forces.

Ofc one can and should stand against systemic racism where it exists, that's very obviously not what I'm talking about. Wdym the internet has nothing to do with these protests? We are experiencing the explosion of internet culture into the real world. I'm sure you recall that in 2013 say this ideology was relegated to very specific parts of the internet, and in the real world to the academy. The speed with which it has gripped the West is quite something whatever you think of it.

As I understand it there had been council votes on what to do with the statue. The votes were either inconclusive or defeated; therefore the statue should have stayed standing, regardless of the mob's wishes. I'm not dying on this hill given the specific statue has no particular artistic or cultural significance but these people have already demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work, they won't stop here

Platitudes about human lives would be more meaningful if human lives did actually hang in the balance here... they don't, this is a statue on the side of a street of a provincial English city, torn down in the simulation of an American social conflict playing out here, 'imperial subjects adopting the fashions of the metropole'

I was half-joking but I personally see a link between the invention and popularisation of YA media and these people's conceit. If you don't, that's fine

[Celritannia]

I didn't realise standing against systematic racism was considered "woke" now.
But the internet has nothing to do with these protests.

While the removal of the statue was a little over the top, I also don't disagree with how it was removed either, especially in the light of the situation and the lack of Bristol Council being slow on the matter.
But monuments can be rebuilt or replaced, humans lives cannot.

YA fiction has nothing to do with people's anger of the racism in police forces.

Ofc one can and should stand against systemic racism where it exists, that's very obviously not what I'm talking about. Wdym the internet has nothing to do with these protests? We are experiencing the explosion of internet culture into the real world. I'm sure you recall that in 2013 say this ideology was relegated to very specific parts of the internet, and in the real world to the academy. The speed with which it has gripped the West is quite something whatever you think of it.

As I understand it there had been council votes on what to do with the statue. The votes were either inconclusive or defeated; therefore the statue should have stayed standing, regardless of the mob's wishes. I'm not dying on this hill given the specific statue has no particular artistic or cultural significance but these people have already demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work, they won't stop here

Platitudes about human lives would be more meaningful if human lives did actually hang in the balance here... they don't, this is a statue on the side of a street of a provincial English city, torn down in the simulation of an American social conflict playing out here, 'imperial subjects adopting the fashions of the metropole'

I was half-joking but I personally see a link between the invention and popularisation of YA media and these people's conceit. If you don't, that's fine

TV did the same thing when protests were televised. The level of technology does not matter if the injustices have been seen and are then protested about. Yes, the internet is faster, but it seemed as if you were complaining about the online culture as a whole, rather than the speed in which these stories are received.

Again, the statue can be replaced if the council wants it to be, the lives of those lost by wrongful shootings cannot. It's a petty thing to argue about in the grand scheme of things tbh.

Again, the systematic racism in the UK as much as there is in the US. While it is not as prevalent in the UK, but it still happens and it should be targeted nonetheless. Whether is started in the US or not does not matter. What matters is that it is addressed.

And what about the Rebellion v Empire in Star Wars? That has a greater effect on people due to it's impact and wide following than any modern day YA novel.
That's just as silly as to say "video games cause violence".

[Shamhnan Insir]

What good is there in destroying statues?
Through a modern lens we can of course say the actions of Colston were terrible, however tearing down a statue because it doesn't agree with our modern viewpoint seems wasteful, especially as nothing is being learned by it. Let's face it, how many people involved in that action even knew who the statue depicted was beyond being told on a twitter post? And after it was torn down, how many are really even going to read up on the history of Bristol, Colston or slavery?
And why throw it in a harbour? If they were that pissed off then why not have it melted down and made into something else, it's just stupid vandalism at this point.

We can't escape our history, it's written in blood and horrible deeds just as much as flowery poetry and tales of heroes. Scars of history must be borne or else we'll forget what caused them.

[Vassenor]

What good is there in destroying statues?
Through a modern lens we can of course say the actions of Colston were terrible, however tearing down a statue because it doesn't agree with our modern viewpoint seems wasteful, especially as nothing is being learned by it. Let's face it, how many people involved in that action even knew who the statue depicted was beyond being told on a twitter post? And after it was torn down, how many are really even going to read up on the history of Bristol, Colston or slavery?
And why throw it in a harbour? If they were that pissed off then why not have it melted down and made into something else, it's just stupid vandalism at this point.

We can't escape our history, it's written in blood and horrible deeds just as much as flowery poetry and tales of heroes. Scars of history must be borne or else we'll forget what caused them.

Time to put back all the Nazi and Soviet statues then.

[Thanatttynia]

Ofc one can and should stand against systemic racism where it exists, that's very obviously not what I'm talking about. Wdym the internet has nothing to do with these protests? We are experiencing the explosion of internet culture into the real world. I'm sure you recall that in 2013 say this ideology was relegated to very specific parts of the internet, and in the real world to the academy. The speed with which it has gripped the West is quite something whatever you think of it.

As I understand it there had been council votes on what to do with the statue. The votes were either inconclusive or defeated; therefore the statue should have stayed standing, regardless of the mob's wishes. I'm not dying on this hill given the specific statue has no particular artistic or cultural significance but these people have already demonstrated that appeasement doesn't work, they won't stop here

Platitudes about human lives would be more meaningful if human lives did actually hang in the balance here... they don't, this is a statue on the side of a street of a provincial English city, torn down in the simulation of an American social conflict playing out here, 'imperial subjects adopting the fashions of the metropole'

I was half-joking but I personally see a link between the invention and popularisation of YA media and these people's conceit. If you don't, that's fine

TV did the same thing when protests were televised. The level of technology does not matter if the injustices have been seen and are then protested about. Yes, the internet is faster, but it seemed as if you were complaining about the online culture as a whole, rather than the speed in which these stories are received.

Again, the statue can be replaced if the council wants it to be, the lives of those lost by wrongful shootings cannot. It's a petty thing to argue about in the grand scheme of things tbh.

Again, the systematic racism in the UK as much as there is in the US. While it is not as prevalent in the UK, but it still happens and it should be targeted nonetheless. Whether is started in the US or not does not matter. What matters is that it is addressed.

And what about the Rebellion v Empire in Star Wars? That has a greater effect on people due to it's impact and wide following than any modern day YA novel.
That's just as silly as to say "video games cause violence".

I'm complaining about online culture as a whole, yes, an integral (and corrosive) part of which is its speed. This is not how we are meant to live. I've never known a world without the ubiquity of television so I can't really feel its effect as keenly as I can that of the internet, but it's a (vast) difference of degree rather than of kind, I agree.

I'm not sure why you're framing this as though we have to choose between the destruction of historic monuments and ending wrongful shootings? It's not an either/or. I entirely appreciate legitimate concerns with the justice system, I'm just rejecting this deranged religious revival movement.

Ofc systemic racism exists in the UK, but it's a nonsense to equate it with that experienced in America. My problem with the Americanisation of our national conversation isn't that I object to such issues being raised - it's based on the simple fact that American 'solutions' to American problems within their specific national context will do nothing to help people over here given that there is a different context, no matter how much people want to deny that. In fact, such ideology seems likely to me to exacerbate what racial tension there is in the UK and fuck up further our already strained communities which have already had to deal with so much.

Again I can only confidently speak to the effects of popular media on my generation. YA has had an appreciable effect from where I'm sitting; 'Star Wars' etc. is before our time. Also video games probably do contribute to violence but (allow me the Americanism) 'y'all ain't ready for that conversation.'

[Dumb Ideologies]

Everyone clap as the bad white men fade out of all the pictures and remember to attend your daily self-flogging. Totalitarian humanism must prevail!

Keep clapping!

[West Leas Oros 2]

Everyone clap as the bad white men fade out of all the pictures and remember to attend your daily self-flogging.

Three cheers for self-flogging!

[Dumb Ideologies]

Everyone clap as the bad white men fade out of all the pictures and remember to attend your daily self-flogging.

Three cheers for self-flogging!

O-only three?!

Brothers, we have a bystander over here.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Three cheers for self-flogging!

O-only three?!

Brothers, we have a bystander over here.

Uh, 5! Five cheers! Ten! Twenty! Please, I’m sorry!

[The Free Joy State]

What good is there in destroying statues?
Through a modern lens we can of course say the actions of Colston were terrible, however tearing down a statue because it doesn't agree with our modern viewpoint seems wasteful, especially as nothing is being learned by it. Let's face it, how many people involved in that action even knew who the statue depicted was beyond being told on a twitter post? And after it was torn down, how many are really even going to read up on the history of Bristol, Colston or slavery?
And why throw it in a harbour? If they were that pissed off then why not have it melted down and made into something else, it's just stupid vandalism at this point.

We can't escape our history, it's written in blood and horrible deeds just as much as flowery poetry and tales of heroes. Scars of history must be borne or else we'll forget what caused them.

My thoughts on the destruction of the statue were that the crowd was either very strong or the bronze statue was very insecurely moored.

I can understand Bristolians not wanting their city represented by the statue of a slaver; I'm not opposed to it being removed, if that's what the people of Bristol want.

However, it would have been better to take it down through proper channels; perhaps on a day of significance, like International Day for the Remembrance of the Slave Trade and its Abolition; which would have allowed the opportunity for education. And melting the bronze for reuse would have been far better than tossing it into the harbour... for the environment as much as anything else.

What good is there in destroying statues?
Through a modern lens we can of course say the actions of Colston were terrible, however tearing down a statue because it doesn't agree with our modern viewpoint seems wasteful, especially as nothing is being learned by it. Let's face it, how many people involved in that action even knew who the statue depicted was beyond being told on a twitter post? And after it was torn down, how many are really even going to read up on the history of Bristol, Colston or slavery?
And why throw it in a harbour? If they were that pissed off then why not have it melted down and made into something else, it's just stupid vandalism at this point.

We can't escape our history, it's written in blood and horrible deeds just as much as flowery poetry and tales of heroes. Scars of history must be borne or else we'll forget what caused them.

Time to put back all the Nazi and Soviet statues then.

Of course not, but history has to be understood in context. We don't destroy everything from the past, because it portrays humanity in a poor light.

That's why the concentration camps still exist; they are the scars of the history of a world that turned its head.

[West Leas Oros 2]

Imagine being antifa and defacing the statue of the leading anti-fascist of his day.

I mean, antifa has a track record of being complete and utter buffoons.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Real talk, despite many decades of relative economic decline, much of our country's infrastructure and wealth today was funded by the imperial legacy. How awful! Previous empires have involved similar dynamics, many have been more brutal, and today we have China's neocolonialism in Africa, Asia and, increasingly even Europe.

The wealthy, large and militarily strong dominate the poor, the small and the militarily weak. That we had an empire is not a fault of our culture but of our ingenuity in one particular economic era, of the human psyche which creates ideological justifications for advantage and legitimisations of in-group dominance, and of the anarchical international order. Enough with the anglo man bad exceptionalism, self-flagellation and colonisation of our history.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Talking about statues getting vandalized during black lives matter protests in the UK.
This happened today too:

(Image)

It happened in Westminster.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 53476.html

I personal opinion of Churchill is that he was a corrupt, alcoholic warmonger who helped push the American people into a fight that wasn't theirs, but even I wouldn't vandalize his statue.

Daily reminder that Hitler declared war on America. Not Churchill.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I find myself not giving a fuck about statues. They get put up, and taken down, by small groups of people with little regard as to what other people may feel. Personally statues have never taught me any history - I get that from books, documentaries, museums, knowledgeable people - to me they are largely just street furniture that gets as much attention from me as a post box or traffic light. I worked twenty metres from one for over a decade and I still don't know why there was a statue of the person, whose name I have even now forgotten.

[West Leas Oros 2]

I find myself not giving a fuck about statues. They get put up, and taken down, by small groups of people with little regard as to what other people may feel. Personally statues have never taught me any history - I get that from books, documentaries, museums, knowledgeable people - to me they are largely just street furniture that gets as much attention from me as a post box or traffic light. I worked twenty metres from one for over a decade and I still don't know why there was a statue of the person, whose name I have even now forgotten.

Most of them end up covered in bird poop anyway.

[Thanatttynia]

Thoughtful piece on our unenviable diplomatic position over the Chinese century

[The Blaatschapen]

I find myself not giving a fuck about statues. They get put up, and taken down, by small groups of people with little regard as to what other people may feel. Personally statues have never taught me any history - I get that from books, documentaries, museums, knowledgeable people - to me they are largely just street furniture that gets as much attention from me as a post box or traffic light. I worked twenty metres from one for over a decade and I still don't know why there was a statue of the person, whose name I have even now forgotten.

Most of them end up covered in bird poop anyway.

A good public service. Without statues, bird poop would be everywhere.

If Bristol now turns into a giant ball of bird poop, we know the reason.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Most of them end up covered in bird poop anyway.

A good public service. Without statues, bird poop would be everywhere.

If Bristol now turns into a giant ball of bird poop, we know the reason.

I'd make some snarky comment about it already being bird poop but alas I've not had the pleasure of visiting.