UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[The New California Republic]

So...why bother?

It's like a kid getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar and he claims he's checking the lid was on properly. Did he not think what it'd look like if his innocent "test" was caught? Terrible judgement even in the unlikely event he's telling the truth.

Yeah it just looks bad. I don't buy it that they were just testing it or whatever they are trying to pretend that they were doing.

[Ostroeuropa]

*Sigh*

"Anglo-Saxon is a racist term and universities should stop using it, they should rename their ASNAC departments." (ASNAC -> Anglo-saxon, Norse, and Celtic studies.).

"A tacit endorsement of the cultural baggage of institutionalized racism and white supremacy with which it has always been associated"

Covered here;
https://youtu.be/UdPK_3J2Ppc

https://www.varsity.co.uk/opinion/18597 ... XnPPklc_Kc

[The New California Republic]

*Sigh*

"Anglo-Saxon is a racist term and universities should stop using it, they should rename their ASNAC departments." (ASNAC -> Anglo-saxon, Norse, and Celtic studies.).

I really don't see why they are making this argument, as I for one have never considered it to have negative connotations when someone is identified or identifies as such. Are they just trying to create outrage out of nothing?

[Fartsniffage]

*Sigh*

"Anglo-Saxon is a racist term and universities should stop using it, they should rename their ASNAC departments." (ASNAC -> Anglo-saxon, Norse, and Celtic studies.).

"A tacit endorsement of the cultural baggage of institutionalized racism and white supremacy with which it has always been associated"

Covered here;
https://youtu.be/UdPK_3J2Ppc

https://www.varsity.co.uk/opinion/18597 ... XnPPklc_Kc

Well they can fuck off.

[Fartsniffage]

*Sigh*

"Anglo-Saxon is a racist term and universities should stop using it, they should rename their ASNAC departments." (ASNAC -> Anglo-saxon, Norse, and Celtic studies.).

I really don't see why they are making this argument, as I for one have never considered it to have negative connotations when someone is identified or identifies as such. Are they just trying to create outrage out of nothing?

WASP and other white supremacist groups have been using the term for a while. They can fuck off as well.

[Philjia]

"Celtic" is a significantly more made up term than "Anglo Saxon".

[SD_Film Artists]

*Sigh*

"Anglo-Saxon is a racist term and universities should stop using it, they should rename their ASNAC departments." (ASNAC -> Anglo-saxon, Norse, and Celtic studies.).

"A tacit endorsement of the cultural baggage of institutionalized racism and white supremacy with which it has always been associated"

Covered here;
https://youtu.be/UdPK_3J2Ppc

https://www.varsity.co.uk/opinion/18597 ... XnPPklc_Kc

On 19th November 2019, the International Society of Anglo-Saxonists (ISAS), the discipline’s most prominent academic organisation, voted narrowly to change its name to the International Society for the Study of Early Medieval England (ISSEME). In a statement issued two months prior, ISSEME wrote:

’It has long been recognised that the term ‘Anglo-Saxonist’ is problematic.

It's almost as if someone wants to remove any ethnic ties to that time and place in history, while also being fine with "black history".

Also I refuse to believe that an academic would use the term "problematic" in that way.

[Fartsniffage]

"Celtic" is a significantly more made up term than "Anglo Saxon".

Briton would be more appropriate?

[Ostroeuropa]

"Celtic" is a significantly more made up term than "Anglo Saxon".

Briton would be more appropriate?

For the period in question, Briton means Welsh, and most texts will refer to Britons meaning Welshmen or Celts not yet removed from English territory or assimilated into Anglo-Saxon culture.

For the record, their argument is "Term bad, bad men use term, so term bad", but allllsoooo-

*Sigh*

"Anglo-Saxon is a racist term and universities should stop using it, they should rename their ASNAC departments." (ASNAC -> Anglo-saxon, Norse, and Celtic studies.).

"A tacit endorsement of the cultural baggage of institutionalized racism and white supremacy with which it has always been associated"

Covered here;
https://youtu.be/UdPK_3J2Ppc

https://www.varsity.co.uk/opinion/18597 ... XnPPklc_Kc

On 19th November 2019, the International Society of Anglo-Saxonists (ISAS), the discipline’s most prominent academic organisation, voted narrowly to change its name to the International Society for the Study of Early Medieval England (ISSEME). In a statement issued two months prior, ISSEME wrote:

’It has long been recognised that the term ‘Anglo-Saxonist’ is problematic.

It's almost as if someone wants to remove any ethnic ties to that time and place in history, while also being fine with "black history".

Also I refuse to believe that an academic would use the term "problematic" in that way.

Their argument is also;

"Just as womens history and black history courses are necessary to attract those demographics to study history at the university, so too will ASNAC courses attract people interested in these identities. While the former seeks to recover the institutionally repressed voices of these communities, the latter perpetuates racial exclusivity.".

So basically yeah, progressive identity politics and the racism and sexism of their ideological talking points being used to attack history and demonize the people interested in studying it and so on.

We have to reject their arguments once and for all and purge them from institutions or it'll never end.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Thats fucking retarded.

[Ostroeuropa]

Thats fucking retarded.

It's entirely consistent with progressive ideology and is as unassailable as their usual nonsense unless you respond with;

"That is fucking retarded" or "You are a racist and a sexist and here is why.".

It is just as consistent as the rest of their nonsense, nothing in particular separates it from their other demands and arguments, because it's the same fundamental argument.

So long as you accept their arguments on other things when they make them, I don't see how you can form a rebuke of this one. The entire ideology must be opposed root and stem. Rejecting it all as retarded idiocy is one way, if you think that the argument is retarded, but it doesn't engage with their more duplicitous and subtley terrible points that aren't immediately on the face of them stupid. Pointing out that this demand is anti-white british and racism against them and how it is is necessary and pointing these things out about progressive ideology is important.

Incidentally, the society of anglo-saxonists was successfully gaslit by this push and changed their name.

We're dealing with a movement of racists and sexists that have infiltrated our institutions and are radically undermining society while damaging our culture and community relations. They do so through gatekeeping, gaslighting, harassment, psychological abuse, telling lies, and so on and so on.

[Ifreann]

I don't think it's fair to suggest that finding Iraq and Afghanistan more relevant to policy proposals than the Falklands is indicative of a poor understanding of history. If we gaze into our crystal balls, what future are we more likely to see? America kicking off another invasion and asking Britain to come along for the ride? Or a distant British territory being invaded by another nation?

I heard on the grapevine that the 16 active solider the UK has left are currently training for an op where dodging sunloungers and only moving during the hours of 2pm-4pm are key. *taps side of nose*

You'll have to get up very early in the morning to beat the Germans to those sun loungers.

---

Labour Party members seem, to me at least, the ideal people to determine Labour Party policy.

Which would also become national policy if this policy was continued after a successful election. Labour party members are not elected and thus they should have no direct say on military action.

One might also suggest that Labour Party members, not being elected, should not be permitted to choose their party leader, as only Members of Parliament may choose a Prime Minister.

This does not preclude consulting with people who have relevant expertise. On the contrary, if Labour have to hold a special conference to decide on whether or not to support a military intervention, that will lead to arguments being made both for and against the intervention.

Which would ultimately be pointless if it's vetoed by the membership vote.

A vote that will be informed by the arguments put to the membership.

I don't think it's fair to suggest that finding Iraq and Afghanistan more relevant to policy proposals than the Falklands is indicative of a poor understanding of history. If we gaze into our crystal balls, what future are we more likely to see? America kicking off another invasion and asking Britain to come along for the ride? Or a distant British territory being invaded by another nation?

Your previous statement about his age seemed to imply that he has no reason to care about anything that he doesn't have a first-hand memory of.

I didn't mean to imply that, just that events he lived through probably had more of an influence on his thinking.

More to the point, there are plenty of other conflicts to learn about which are relevant to modern interventionism (or non-interventionism) than just Iraq and Afghanistan. Limiting yourself to just 2 or 3 examples which themselves are arguably part of a single conflict (Bush/Obama era war on terror) seems very short-sighted.

You're right, clearly the Labour Party needs to keep in mind the Emu War when determining their policy on future military interventions.

---

"Celtic" is a significantly more made up term than "Anglo Saxon".

Every term is made up.

[Fartsniffage]

You'll have to get up very early in the morning to beat the Germans to those sun loungers.

That just means more soft cover....

[Philjia]

"Celtic" is a significantly more made up term than "Anglo Saxon".

Briton would be more appropriate?

If you're describing the ones who occupied England and Wales, yes. Jutes should also get included, not as many of them came to Britain but they're still distinct from the Angles, Saxons, and Norse.

[Fartsniffage]

Briton would be more appropriate?

If you're describing the ones who occupied England and Wales, yes. Jutes should also get included, not as many of them came to Britain but they're still distinct from the Angles, Saxons, and Norse.

Don't forget Danes. They're distinct from the Norse.

[Albrenia]

Thats fucking retarded.

Pretty much my opinion of it, although I'd prefer the word 'stupid' since I've know legitimately retarded people who wouldn't do that sort of shit.

I do wish the stupid parts of the left would stop pulling this sort of crap. There's actual racism and sexism still around in the world to fight which is just being bolstered by this sort of inanity making all sexism and racism look 'fake'.

[Vassenor]

Thats fucking retarded.

Pretty much my opinion of it, although I'd prefer the word 'stupid' since I've know legitimately retarded people who wouldn't do that sort of shit.

I do wish the stupid parts of the left would stop pulling this sort of crap. There's actual racism and sexism still around in the world to fight which is just being bolstered by this sort of inanity making all sexism and racism look 'fake'.

Are we pulling fringe examples as representative again?

[Ifreann]

I still think that Atlantic Archipelago is a much better name for these isles. I know you're reluctant to take your name off things with your empire so very dwindled, but come on, "archipelago" is a great word, and who doesn't love alliteration?

[Fartsniffage]

Thats fucking retarded.

Pretty much my opinion of it, although I'd prefer the word 'stupid' since I've know legitimately retarded people who wouldn't do that sort of shit.

I do wish the stupid parts of the left would stop pulling this sort of crap. There's actual racism and sexism still around in the world to fight which is just being bolstered by this sort of inanity making all sexism and racism look 'fake'.

I quite like the Arrsepedia definition of Mong. It clearly removes those with down syndrome since they're generally good people with an unfortunate disability and applies it solely to those who chose to be mongs.

[Fartsniffage]

I still think that Atlantic Archipelago is a much better name for these isles. I know you're reluctant to take your name off things with your empire so very dwindled, but come on, "archipelago" is a great word, and who doesn't love alliteration?

We'll take it. But only if Spain gives us the Canary Islands.

[Ostroeuropa]

Pretty much my opinion of it, although I'd prefer the word 'stupid' since I've know legitimately retarded people who wouldn't do that sort of shit.

I do wish the stupid parts of the left would stop pulling this sort of crap. There's actual racism and sexism still around in the world to fight which is just being bolstered by this sort of inanity making all sexism and racism look 'fake'.

Are we pulling fringe examples as representative again?

What about their argument is fringe?

The situation they applied it to?

What, specifically, other than "That's stupid" can you say to argue against their argument without abandoning progressive ideology?

It's like a philosophy experiment demonstrating to you that your logic is ridiculous and leads to ridiculous results.

"All things with two legs are birds. Just look at these things with two legs that are birds, it proves it." <- Vassenor
"Here is a human. It has two legs. Humans must therefore be birds." <- This guy
"That's stupid and fringe and not representative of our position." <- Your reply

Explain how this isn't the case. What, specifically, about the argument he is using makes it different from yours?

It's not OUR fault you believe in such silly shit Vass, and complaining we're 'picking out the fringe' when we point out that your ideas mean that humans must be birds isn't a valid response to the observation that your ideology is absolute nonsense that produces stupid results. It simply means that, if we accept its fringe, the overwhelming majority of your movement doesn't have the sense to apply their ideas properly or think about them and their implications, because if they did, they'd see this as a consequence of the arguments and logic they think are rock solid.

Here you go Vass, I'll play the part of your average progressive in denial.

All things with two legs are birds. Prove me wrong.

[Albrenia]

Are we pulling fringe examples as representative again?

What about their argument is fringe?

The situation they applied it to?

What, specifically, other than "That's stupid" can you say to argue against their argument without abandoning progressive ideology?

It's like a philosophy experiment demonstrating to you that your logic is ridiculous and leads to ridiculous results.

It's a fringe argument that the name 'Anglo-Saxon' is racist when it is just a term for a group of people and, unlike some other terms, has no history of being used to dehumanise or demean the described group.

Some of us (hopefully many, although I can only speak for myself) see that there is indeed large amounts of racism and sexism in the world, both in the West and the world at large, and we want to do our best to lessen said inequalities where possible. We also reject the silliness of 'only white people can be racist' and garbage like that - all humans are equal... which means equally bad too.

[Ostroeuropa]

What about their argument is fringe?

The situation they applied it to?

What, specifically, other than "That's stupid" can you say to argue against their argument without abandoning progressive ideology?

It's like a philosophy experiment demonstrating to you that your logic is ridiculous and leads to ridiculous results.

It's a fringe argument that the name 'Anglo-Saxon' is racist when it is just a term for a group of people and, unlike some other terms, has no history of being used to dehumanise or demean the described group.

Some of us (hopefully many, although I can only speak for myself) see that there is indeed large amounts of racism and sexism in the world, both in the West and the world at large, and we want to do our best to lessen said inequalities where possible. We also reject the silliness of 'only white people can be racist' and garbage like that - all humans are equal... which means equally bad too.

Specifically the appeal to power dynamics to justify disparate treatment and legitimacy of spaces; namely:

"Just as womens history and black history courses are necessary to attract those demographics to study history at the university, so too will ASNAC courses attract people interested in these identities. While the former seeks to recover the institutionally repressed voices of these communities, the latter perpetuates racial exclusivity.".

I accept that you might well reject this common talking point among the idpol left, but the ones in charge of institutions don't. The opposition to the MRM is predicated on this kind of nonsense, and we've seen similarly rationales to oppose international mens day from elected MPs too.

Do you think this might impact the electability of the left when a left wing politician can come out and say "All things with two legs are birds" and not get flak from her own party for it?

[Ifreann]

I still think that Atlantic Archipelago is a much better name for these isles. I know you're reluctant to take your name off things with your empire so very dwindled, but come on, "archipelago" is a great word, and who doesn't love alliteration?

We'll take it. But only if Spain gives us the Canary Islands.

They do have very good doggos.

[Fartsniffage]

We'll take it. But only if Spain gives us the Canary Islands.

They do have very good doggos.

I'm only interested in the birds...