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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Philjia
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Founded: Sep 15, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Fri Feb 07, 2020 8:05 am

It's a good job those horrible old Pacer trains have been replaced...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-51412945

Oh. Oh dear.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:17 am

The New California Republic wrote:
TV presenter Phillip Schofield has revealed he is gay, after 27 years of marriage to his wife Stephanie Lowe.

The 57-year-old made the announcement via a statement posted on his Instagram story.

"Today, quite rightly, being gay is a reason to celebrate and be proud," he wrote.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51414010

With the aid of my trusty gaydar I have known for a long time that he is.

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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:50 am

Hirota wrote:
Imagine being this inept....Did you actually read your own link before posting? Because even a cursory look over the Guardian article demonstrates that Norton has had a number of issues going back well before the Brexit contributed to the issues in 2016. At best you can argue Brexit uncertainty was one of the final nails in the coffin, but the first few nails were hammered in long before.

Moreover, basic common sense dictates that uncertainties over Brexit and opportunities with Brexit are not mutually exclusive. Both can happen simultaneously. In times of upheaval there is inevitable change and that brings perils and opportunities aplenty.

I've got no love for Gove - honestly I think he's a twat, but I'd say not understanding what he is saying is inept and idiotic. He's arguing that there are certain things that should not be compromised on for the sake of a trade deal. He's basically echoing the rhetoric of those so keen to protect the NHS from those wicked dastardly Americans. Different priorities, sure, but coming from the same principle that certain things are inviolate. If those things he's arguing should be protected are worthy of protection is open for discussion.

Any evidence beyond some twatter post that this is more than an isolated anecdote? I'm sure it did happen, and I'm sure it does happen, but incoherent twatter ramblings don't accomplish anything. I've got thoughts on what might accomplish something later.

This one is almost accurate. But again, stop relying on twatter for your information.

The guardian describes this as a refocus on PM's priorities. That's not a net cut in public funding, simply a reallocation. What this means for the 13.8bn reported last year is unclear. We know there is probably a large enough war-chest to support that kind of one-off investment in infrastructure.

It's worth also noting that during the election other parties promised far more than the Tories. I remember pointing out during the election poll that shwon the electorate thought Labours fiscal policy was absurdly unrealistic. It wasn't that the electorate thought the Tories pledges were particularly realistic, but rather that they were the least unrealistic.

Economics, if it wasn't obvious to you already, doesn't parse well into the brevity of Twatter. Now, if you ask me (not that I'm an economist) there are probably other areas that would benefit from investment more than the NHS, police and what have you. And that would be the benefits system:
I mean the cause seems moderately obvious. The idea of a universal credit is certainly more elegant and efficent than having a dozen or so separate benefit systems like before, but so far it's been implemented so poorly that it has to be fixed. Once that improves, foodbank usage, health issues (like the anecdote you posted earlier) and crime should all see some benefits as a result.


I didn't even get these from twitter. They were posted on the different political groups I am apart of.
Just because they are a basic image doesn't make them untrue.

Plus, Tories cutting or reallocating spending means those worse off will receive less funding.

Just because the UC system may appear more efficient, the deaths resulted in its quick establishment are plain to see. Not to mention, since everything is now done through a computer, not many people on benefits can afford a computer.
And after 8 years of UC, foodbank use is rising, people don't have the money they need, and many are still struggling.
Last edited by Celritannia on Fri Feb 07, 2020 9:58 am, edited 4 times in total.

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:44 pm

Philjia wrote:It's a good job those horrible old Pacer trains have been replaced...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-51412945

Oh. Oh dear.

How about we get a new fleet of cheap and cheerful yet reliable railbuses instead?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Hirota
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:06 pm

Celritannia wrote:I didn't even get these from twitter. They were posted on the different political groups I am apart of.

Considering these are supposedly from "political groups," I can only extend my previous criticism of you lazily relying on twatter, and correct it by rephrasing it as criticism of the whole of these "political groups" for lazily relying on twatter. Well done.

Just because they are a basic image doesn't make them untrue.
Not how burden of proof works.

Plus, Tories cutting or reallocating spending means those worse off will receive less funding.
False. Depends on where the reallocation goes. We cannot reliably know that at this stage, therefore it cannot be proven true.

Just because the UC system may appear more efficient, the deaths resulted in its quick establishment are plain to see.
Sure, too many. No debate there. But the problem isn't the intended end product of a more efficient system, but the process involved in delivering that system.
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:50 pm

Hirota wrote:
Celritannia wrote:I didn't even get these from twitter. They were posted on the different political groups I am apart of.

Considering these are supposedly from "political groups," I can only extend my previous criticism of you lazily relying on twatter, and correct it by rephrasing it as criticism of the whole of these "political groups" for lazily relying on twatter. Well done.

Just because they are a basic image doesn't make them untrue.
Not how burden of proof works.

Plus, Tories cutting or reallocating spending means those worse off will receive less funding.
False. Depends on where the reallocation goes. We cannot reliably know that at this stage, therefore it cannot be proven true.

Just because the UC system may appear more efficient, the deaths resulted in its quick establishment are plain to see.
Sure, too many. No debate there. But the problem isn't the intended end product of a more efficient system, but the process involved in delivering that system.


How about just you calm down.


This was an incident between someone volunteering at a food bank and the woman in question, there isn't any news stories surrounding it. Stories like this don't always make the media.

After 10 years of a Tory government, it's not difficult to see where the chips will fall.

And while the Tories are in power, the system will not improve. 8 years it's been in use, and the system has hardly improved.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:06 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Philjia wrote:It's a good job those horrible old Pacer trains have been replaced...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-51412945

Oh. Oh dear.

How about we get a new fleet of cheap and cheerful yet reliable railbuses instead?

With all the money being spent on HS2, we'll be lucky if we get handcars.
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Lamoni
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Postby Lamoni » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:28 am

Gormwood wrote:
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:It's quite clear what you were trying to instigate. No one cares about your ongoing, frankly quite boring feud with Gauthier. Please keep it out of our thread cos as previously said, it's really really boring fam.

Oh, is he still trying? Pffft. Blocked him long ago, that's pretty sad and pathetic that he has nothing better to do in his life than try to dunk on people and get an angry rise out of them.


Just don't even comment on them in the future, Gauth. It'll all be much better that way. We aren't warning you for this one, since you were the one being goaded into responding, this is just a "knock it off."
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Hirota
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:41 am

Celritannia wrote:How about just you calm down.
I'm not the one posting hysterical drivel Cel. Perhaps take your own advice
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:49 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:How about we get a new fleet of cheap and cheerful yet reliable railbuses instead?

With all the money being spent on HS2, we'll be lucky if we get handcars.

It'll lower the obesity rate at least. :p
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
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They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
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Wave on, wave on
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Feb 08, 2020 7:19 am

Police have spoken to a 16-year-old schoolboy sent hundreds of social media messages by Scotland's former finance secretary Derek Mackay.

Police Scotland said that while it had not "received any complaint of criminality", it was "assessing available information".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-51425591
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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New Bremerton
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Postby New Bremerton » Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:48 am

Diplomat Karen Pierce appointed as UK’s new ambassador to U.S.

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has named career diplomat Karen Pierce as its new ambassador to the United States, the first woman to hold the U.S. post, with the task of shoring up relations with London’s closest ally after Brexit.

FILE PHOTO: Karen Pierce, Britain's Ambassador to the United Nations, addresses the U.N. Security Council briefing on implementation of the resolution that endorsed the Iran nuclear deal at the United Nations headquarters in New York, U.S., June 26, 2019. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton
Pierce, 60, a former ambassador to Afghanistan, replaces Kim Darroch who resigned last July after U.S. President Donald Trump labeled him “stupid” and “wacky” following the release of confidential memos in which he had branded the U.S. president’s administration inept.

“It is a time of huge opportunity for the friendship between the UK and US and I am delighted that Karen Pierce will take forward this exciting new chapter in our relationship,” Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said in a statement.

“We’re proud to be sending to Washington such an outstanding diplomat, and I warmly congratulate her on her appointment.”

Pierce is currently Britain’s Ambassador to the United Nations in New York and Permanent Representative at the UN Security Council.

Relations between Britain and the United States, which both sides often describe as a “special relationship”, have fluctuated since Trump took office in 2017.

He criticized Johnson’s predecessor Theresa May’s handling of Brexit and there have been disagreements over Iran, plans for a tax on digital companies, and most recently Britain’s decision to allow Chinese firm Huawei a role in building its 5G mobile phone network.

However, both allies have said ties are strong and U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said last week Britain would be “at the front of the line” for a post-Brexit trade deal with the United States.

Pierce began her career at the Foreign Office in 1981 and was Britain’s ambassador to Afghanistan between 2015 and 2016.

She has also served as Permanent Representative to the UK Mission to the World Trade Organization among other international organizations.

“I am honored to have been asked to represent the UK in the U.S. I think it is the UK’s single most important relationship,” she said in a statement.
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Philjia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:31 am

Amusingly Jeremy Corbyn's constituency Islington North has nominated Keir Starmer for the Labour leadership, and not the Corbynism continuity candidate Rebecca Long-Bailey. Starmer, Long-Bailey, and Lisa Nandy look likely to be the only candidates to reach the final round, with Emily Thornberry currently well short of the number of affiliate and CLP endorsements needed.
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Gormwood
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Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Feb 08, 2020 9:50 am

New Bremerton wrote:Diplomat Karen Pierce appointed as UK’s new ambassador to U.S.

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain has named career diplomat Karen Pierce as its new ambassador to the United States, the first woman to hold the U.S. post, with the task of shoring up relations with London’s closest ally after Brexit.

FILE PHOTO: Karen Pierce, Britain's Ambassador to the United Nations, addresses the U.N. Security Council briefing on implementation of the resolution that endorsed the Iran nuclear deal at the United Nations headquarters in New York, U.S., June 26, 2019. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton
Pierce, 60, a former ambassador to Afghanistan, replaces Kim Darroch who resigned last July after U.S. President Donald Trump labeled him “stupid” and “wacky” following the release of confidential memos in which he had branded the U.S. president’s administration inept.

“It is a time of huge opportunity for the friendship between the UK and US and I am delighted that Karen Pierce will take forward this exciting new chapter in our relationship,” Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said in a statement.

“We’re proud to be sending to Washington such an outstanding diplomat, and I warmly congratulate her on her appointment.”

Pierce is currently Britain’s Ambassador to the United Nations in New York and Permanent Representative at the UN Security Council.

Relations between Britain and the United States, which both sides often describe as a “special relationship”, have fluctuated since Trump took office in 2017.

He criticized Johnson’s predecessor Theresa May’s handling of Brexit and there have been disagreements over Iran, plans for a tax on digital companies, and most recently Britain’s decision to allow Chinese firm Huawei a role in building its 5G mobile phone network.

However, both allies have said ties are strong and U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said last week Britain would be “at the front of the line” for a post-Brexit trade deal with the United States.

Pierce began her career at the Foreign Office in 1981 and was Britain’s ambassador to Afghanistan between 2015 and 2016.

She has also served as Permanent Representative to the UK Mission to the World Trade Organization among other international organizations.

“I am honored to have been asked to represent the UK in the U.S. I think it is the UK’s single most important relationship,” she said in a statement.

She'll be dismissed as another Nasty Woman before long.
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Fartsniffage
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:14 am

Gormwood wrote:

She'll be dismissed as another Nasty Woman before long.


She has a reputation for being quite blunt. I can't imagine Trump will like her much,
Strong opinions, lightly held.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Feb 08, 2020 10:19 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Gormwood wrote:She'll be dismissed as another Nasty Woman before long.


She has a reputation for being quite blunt. I can't imagine Trump will like her much,

The love affair is already in jeopardy before HE Ambassador Pierce has even gotten to DC. <.>

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Gormwood
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Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:34 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
She has a reputation for being quite blunt. I can't imagine Trump will like her much,

The love affair is already in jeopardy before HE Ambassador Pierce has even gotten to DC. <.>

So which country will be the equivalent of the younger woman mistress to cheat on Britannia with before the divorce and remarriage?
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Hirota
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Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:46 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Police have spoken to a 16-year-old schoolboy sent hundreds of social media messages by Scotland's former finance secretary Derek Mackay.

Police Scotland said that while it had not "received any complaint of criminality", it was "assessing available information".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-51425591
Aside from being obviously creepy, is there any suggestion an actual crime taken place? You'd think Police Scotland might consider that first. If not, sending a police presence to interview the lad seems like a waste of money.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/go ... iding-high

In a move that is likely to impact traditional Conservative voters, the Chancellor is set to introduce long-considered plans to reform pension tax relief.

The current system costs the Treasury around £40bn a year and mainly benefits richer people as those who save into a pension receive tax relief at the same rate as their income.
Curious. Probably will annoy traditional (older) Tory voters, and probably won't make those more on the left inclined to look upon them more favourably, but will probably appeal to their new electoral base in the working class.
Last edited by Hirota on Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Feb 08, 2020 11:52 am

Hirota wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:
Aside from being obviously creepy, is there any suggestion an actual crime taken place? You'd think Police Scotland might consider that first. If not, sending a police presence to interview the lad seems like a waste of money.

I think the police feel the eyes of the public on them, so they feel the need to show that they are looking into it to make sure that the boy was 16 when Mackay contacted him.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Celritannia
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12349
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:31 pm

Hirota wrote:
Celritannia wrote:How about just you calm down.
I'm not the one posting hysterical drivel Cel. Perhaps take your own advice


It was a post showing irony.

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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:21 pm

The dim beginnings of self-awareness can be seen in a few of the articles from progressive Labour pundits, the vague recognition that people refuse to vote for them because of their socio-cultural stances and the coalition is collapsing over time under their leadership. That there is, quite simply, not enough people willing to vote for them in order for them to win an election, and nobody willing to work with them anymore because those people know that the progressive left doesn't compromise or build coalitions with other views on social politics.

All lost in the final paragraphs where they then conclude that the solution is to "Make their case better" to these people and that they cannot abandon the cause or dilute their policy. Alas.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sat Feb 08, 2020 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:27 am

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18221 ... ref=twtrec

SCOTTISH voters back a legal battle with Boris Johnson over indyref2 if he continues to refuse a Section 30 order, a new poll has revealed.

More than half believe the Scottish Parliament should legislate to hold a referendum if Westminster does not agree to it – and then allow the courts to decide if it can take place.


oof

as i think i've said before, i think that people believing the scottish parliament has a right to hold a referendum is basically the end of the union because it is a de facto claim that scotland is sovereign. though if they let the courts ultimately decide then that won't be the case. so hmm johnson and sturgeon will both probably try avoid testing it.
Last edited by Souseiseki on Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:06 am

Souseiseki wrote:https://www.thenational.scot/news/18221754.scots-back-legal-battle-boris-referendum/?ref=twtrec

SCOTTISH voters back a legal battle with Boris Johnson over indyref2 if he continues to refuse a Section 30 order, a new poll has revealed.

More than half believe the Scottish Parliament should legislate to hold a referendum if Westminster does not agree to it – and then allow the courts to decide if it can take place.


oof

as i think i've said before, i think that people believing the scottish parliament has a right to hold a referendum is basically the end of the union because it is a de facto claim that scotland is sovereign. though if they let the courts ultimately decide then that won't be the case. so hmm johnson and sturgeon will both probably try avoid testing it.


Boris Johnson creating Constitutional crisis after Constitutional crisis. Though I hope Scotland knows France and Spain will block membership for years to discourage their own breakaway regions. Scotland may find themselves isolated for years and having to subjugate themselves to the Americans.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:11 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:https://www.thenational.scot/news/18221754.scots-back-legal-battle-boris-referendum/?ref=twtrec



oof

as i think i've said before, i think that people believing the scottish parliament has a right to hold a referendum is basically the end of the union because it is a de facto claim that scotland is sovereign. though if they let the courts ultimately decide then that won't be the case. so hmm johnson and sturgeon will both probably try avoid testing it.


Boris Johnson creating Constitutional crisis after Constitutional crisis. Though I hope Scotland knows France and Spain will block membership for years to discourage their own breakaway regions. Scotland may find themselves isolated for years and having to subjugate themselves to the Americans.

France will most likely approve of it if only to fuck over the Brits. Besides the French will just do what they do best and suppress any talk of separation from france
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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:The dim beginnings of self-awareness can be seen in a few of the articles from progressive Labour pundits, the vague recognition that people refuse to vote for them because of their socio-cultural stances and the coalition is collapsing over time under their leadership. That there is, quite simply, not enough people willing to vote for them in order for them to win an election, and nobody willing to work with them anymore because those people know that the progressive left doesn't compromise or build coalitions with other views on social politics.

All lost in the final paragraphs where they then conclude that the solution is to "Make their case better" to these people and that they cannot abandon the cause or dilute their policy. Alas.

I do wonder, would there ever be a situation which could disprove your worldview? Or is everything just an affirmation to you?
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