UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[The New California Republic]

Only one in ten to two in ten Brits have lactose intolerance.

Do you just like making up facts?


Yeah, that's why I said most, not a majority.

Back to primary school reading courses it is for you.

The lactose intolerance of 73% was in relation to Japan, not the UK.

Your link disproves a statement that was not made.

It's made especially ironic because they had the gall to say this:

Back to primary school reading courses it is for you.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Check out Thatcher’s Children, Blair’s Babies.

Thatcherism won. The property-owning democracy was invincible. Then, mere months after the article was published, this generational consensus came crashing down - I really think people don't get how effective Labour's 2017 online campaign was at targeting the young and turning them from socially liberal Thatcherites (see how they voted in 2015) into socially liberal Corbynites. If the Conservatives had abolished tuition fees, had made sure the young didn't feel the impact of austerity, and had extended the property-owning democracy to them, right now they would be as dominant as Japan's LDP.

But instead they fucked it all up.

Young people voting Conservative went up by a couple of % from 2017 to 2019 and the tipping point for voting Conservative over Labour came down from 47 to 39. So I don't think it's some kind of trend in one direction caused by corbyn because it started to go back the other way last election. May being useless on the campaign trail has a large part to do with it.

Hmm that would be a very interesting argument if it was not directly contradicted by the facts.
2017
2019
so actually... the amount of young people voting Conservative went DOWN by 8% to 19% (!).

[The New California Republic]

The lactose intolerance of 73% was in relation to Japan, not the UK.

Your link disproves a statement that was not made.

Her comment was poorly phrased.

And she's wrong anyway, since the actual rate is 77%

No it was just you that wasn't keeping up, don't make excuses now.

[Vassenor]

The lactose intolerance of 73% was in relation to Japan, not the UK.

Your link disproves a statement that was not made.

Her comment was poorly phrased.

And she's wrong anyway, since the actual rate is 77%

So in other words the market for cheese is even smaller. Weird flex.

And my source says 73% with a newer dataset.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Her comment was poorly phrased.

And she's wrong anyway, since the actual rate is 77%

So in other words the market for cheese is even smaller. Weird flex.

And my source says 73% with a newer dataset.

The specific rate of adverse reactions to milk products in Japan is pretty irrelevant when you consider that rotten cheese is probably as welcome there as rotten tofu would be in Europe.

[-Ra-]

So in other words the market for cheese is even smaller. Weird flex.

And my source says 73% with a newer dataset.

And your comment was still poorly phrased anyway.

[The New California Republic]

So in other words the market for cheese is even smaller. Weird flex.

And my source says 73% with a newer dataset.

And your comment was still poorly phrased anyway.

No, you just didn't read what was being said properly. As I said, don't make excuses.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

I mean, I agree. It's just that the immediate result would be a left wing economics, right wing sociocultural party of power that remains in office for decades. Given that this is the exact opposite of both major parties elites priorities, it's not going to happen.

I'd also suggest to you that the progressive left can't help itself and if they become comfortable in the polls, the mask will come off and a bunch of extremist sociocultural stuff will pour out, leading to those apathetic young voters immediate polarizing to vote Tory.

Currently the apathetic youth don't vote because they don't need to. Labour will lose anyway, and this way they get a clear conscience of not voting for the Tory economic plan. When Labour looks set to win, that becomes a shakier prospect.

Corbyn did well by focusing heavily on class and economics and ignoring the sociocultural bollocks, as that's what really unites the youth. When he lost, it was because he failed to keep that framework up.

(more or less) yes, actually.

Labour's ONLY weakness in the youth vote is amongst young men who are anti-"political correctness" (which, before someone complains about "NO SUCH THING!!", probably comes from watching too much YouTube, but is still their view).

Funny how everything always comes back to "progressivism = evil, right-wing sociocultural policy = good".

Yes.

[The New California Republic]

So in other words the market for cheese is even smaller. Weird flex.

And my source says 73% with a newer dataset.

The specific rate of adverse reactions to milk products in Japan is pretty irrelevant when you consider that rotten cheese is probably as welcome there as rotten tofu would be in Europe.

Given that even by a generous estimate only 1 in 6,127 Japanese people buy Stilton, you aren't wrong.

[Vassenor]

So in other words the market for cheese is even smaller. Weird flex.

And my source says 73% with a newer dataset.

And your comment was still poorly phrased anyway.

OK, so show the class where I said that Britain had a 73% lactose intolerance rate and thus was a bad export market for British Cheese. Or are you the one who needs to work on their reading comprehension?

[Souseiseki]

Why should a party that wins with 30% of the vote get to win the entire constituency?

Because it represents the will of most voters?

And people winning by 30% happens, but it's rather rare. The way we have it now is fine. I don't what the colour wheel parliaments that countries like Italy or Spain have. Having too many political parties creates instability and uncertainty when it comes time to form a government. We have it better than the Americans because we have somewhat reliable third party options, but I contend that having one major party of the centre-right and one major party of the centre-left is what's best.

i don't know how anyone can look at the past 5 years of british politics and think wew i'm glad we avoided the instability and uncertainty that european political systems bring. frankly i'm tempted to think the whole "instability and uncertainty" thing is a direct result of the british political culture where we're used to five year dictatorships where one party uses its majority to ram whatever it feels like through until the next election and thus clearly any system that does not result in that must have weak unstable government. and then whenever a political situation arises that this cannot be done, the whole country just flounders around in a limbo until the good graces of big strong government comes back and allows one group to just completely roughshod the rest. like just the absolute unabated embarrassment of the EU managing to come up with a 26 country consensus while the UK fails to negotiate with itself for years until one group gets big enough to be able to say "haha negotiate nope". and then the absolute shock and righteous indignation when brexit negotiations fail and relations between westminster and every other government in the UK break down because other governments aren't going to put up with that shit and westminster politicians are institutionally incapable of handling negotiations.

the electoral system and two party system has turned the UK into a complete joke domestically and internationally and bred a generation of incompetent and untested politicians that have been set up to fail when it comes to the real challenges they are going to face. as i said before the rise and fall of new labour, the domination of the scottish national party and the onset of brexit all have the same root cause and that cause is the complacency and incompetence in the labour party brought on by the two party system (and blairites trying to turn themselves into presidents for life). we are staring down the barrel of the literal end of the UK and people still think "oh all we need is a few little tweaks - maybe labour should banish the immigrants yeah that'll get the north back on board".

[The New California Republic]

Tens of thousands of school pupils are to have their exam results upgraded after the Scottish government agreed to accept teacher estimates of their scores.

The government u-turn follows an outcry from pupils after a moderation system saw 125,000 estimated results being downgraded.

All results that were downgraded will now be withdrawn and replaced by the original estimates.

The move affects about 75,000 pupils across Scotland.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53740588

[Souseiseki]

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-brita ... T?rpc=401&

(Reuters) - British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has blocked a plan to invite Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon to cabinet meetings, the Financial Times newspaper reported on Tuesday.

The proposal was made by Michael Gove, cabinet office minister, as a means to contain increasing public support in Scotland for independence by giving the Scottish National Party leader a direct say in policy meetings impacting the whole of UK, the newspaper reported.

“He (Johnson) doesn’t like the idea of Sturgeon being seen as on the same political level as him”, the report quoted a source as saying.

In Scotland, 54% of the people favoured independence, according a recent poll, driven by a perception that Scotland’s semi-autonomous government has handled the coronavirus outbreak better than the United Kingdom government.

case in point, this is classic UK at this point. johnson is refusing to have real dialogue with the devolved governments because he considers himself above them. even if he technically legally is, that doesn't mean he needs to act like a big baby asshole over it. on a more marco scale, the government cannot take moves like this to try win scotland back because it will piss off england and it cannot ignore scotland to win over england because it will piss off england. dead country.

e: imagine being in the middle of brexit, a global pandemic and knowing your country is at risk of falling apart but your primary concern is still "bloooo this would look bad for me politically to pretend the scots are equal when they aren't"

[-Ra-]

i don't know how anyone can look at the past 5 years of british politics and think wew i'm glad we avoided the instability and uncertainty that european political systems bring. frankly i'm tempted to think the whole "instability and uncertainty" thing is a direct result of the british political culture where we're used to five year dictatorships where one party uses its majority to ram whatever it feels like through until the next election and thus clearly any system that does not result in that must have weak unstable government. and then whenever a political situation arises that this cannot be done, the whole country just flounders around in a limbo until the good graces of big strong government comes back and allows one group to just completely roughshod the rest. like just the absolute unabated embarrassment of the EU managing to come up with a 26 country consensus while the UK fails to negotiate with itself for years until one group gets big enough to be able to say "haha negotiate nope". and then the absolute shock and righteous indignation when brexit negotiations fail and relations between westminster and every other government in the UK break down because other governments aren't going to put up with that shit and westminster politicians are institutionally incapable of handling negotiations.

the electoral system and two party system has turned the UK into a complete joke domestically and internationally and bred a generation of incompetent and untested politicians that have been set up to fail when it comes to the real challenges they are going to face. as i said before the rise and fall of new labour, the domination of the scottish national party and the onset of brexit all have the same root cause and that cause is the complacency and incompetence in the labour party brought on by the two party system (and blairites trying to turn themselves into presidents for life). we are staring down the barrel of the literal end of the UK and people still think "oh all we need is a few little tweaks - maybe labour should banish the immigrants yeah that'll get the north back on board".

Don't know where you're getting your stuff fun but the UK is still a stable democracy. We have our problems, just like every other democracy. What you're doing is widely exaggerating them. Unfortunately for you, the UK will not collapse. This country was resolute through two world wars and this crisis is in no way as bad. It's honestly disgusting to see people advocating for the collapse of this country in service of their political agenda.

There are those who love their country and Queen and seek to improve it, and then there are those who want to see its collapse just because.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

"oh all we need is a few little tweaks - maybe labour should banish the immigrants yeah that'll get the north back on board"

First of all, that's a misrepresentation of Blue Labour policies. Second of all, Blue Labour policy comes from genuine belief in it, not wherever the "controls on immigration" mug did.

[The Reformed American Republic]

It's just that the immediate result would be a left wing economics, right wing sociocultural party of power that remains in office for decades. Given that this is the exact opposite of both major parties elites priorities, it's not going to happen.

That would be an excellent party. A party that stands up for western values but doesn't suck off the capitalist class.

[Souseiseki]

i don't know how anyone can look at the past 5 years of british politics and think wew i'm glad we avoided the instability and uncertainty that european political systems bring. frankly i'm tempted to think the whole "instability and uncertainty" thing is a direct result of the british political culture where we're used to five year dictatorships where one party uses its majority to ram whatever it feels like through until the next election and thus clearly any system that does not result in that must have weak unstable government. and then whenever a political situation arises that this cannot be done, the whole country just flounders around in a limbo until the good graces of big strong government comes back and allows one group to just completely roughshod the rest. like just the absolute unabated embarrassment of the EU managing to come up with a 26 country consensus while the UK fails to negotiate with itself for years until one group gets big enough to be able to say "haha negotiate nope". and then the absolute shock and righteous indignation when brexit negotiations fail and relations between westminster and every other government in the UK break down because other governments aren't going to put up with that shit and westminster politicians are institutionally incapable of handling negotiations.

the electoral system and two party system has turned the UK into a complete joke domestically and internationally and bred a generation of incompetent and untested politicians that have been set up to fail when it comes to the real challenges they are going to face. as i said before the rise and fall of new labour, the domination of the scottish national party and the onset of brexit all have the same root cause and that cause is the complacency and incompetence in the labour party brought on by the two party system (and blairites trying to turn themselves into presidents for life). we are staring down the barrel of the literal end of the UK and people still think "oh all we need is a few little tweaks - maybe labour should banish the immigrants yeah that'll get the north back on board".

Don't know where you're getting your stuff fun but the UK is still a stable democracy. We have our problems, just like every other democracy. What you're doing is widely exaggerating them. Unfortunately for you, the UK will not collapse. This country was resolute through two world wars and this crisis is in no way as bad. It's honestly disgusting to see people advocating for the collapse of this country in service of their political agenda.

There are those who love their country and Queen and seek to improve it, and then there are those who want to see its collapse just because.

i'm not wildly exaggerating. northern ireland is now an EU satellite state that will be gone by 2050. support for scottish independence has been ticking upward for years and now seems like it will have a consistent majority. northern england is going to be pissed when brexit doesn't solve the problems they thought it would. and the welsh government is finally growing some balls over brexit and corona. your meme country is literally dying. whether or not you're willing to fix it or want to put your fingers in your ears and go la la la is your problem.

also "we survived WWII" is a terrible point. you can't assume the country will live on forever because well we survived WWII. WWII was a unifying experience whereas the recent crises have been dividing experiences. the old generation that got british patriotism from WWII are dying off and being replace by pissy younger generations who see themselves as having been consistently shafted.

[Souseiseki]

"oh all we need is a few little tweaks - maybe labour should banish the immigrants yeah that'll get the north back on board"

First of all, that's a misrepresentation of Blue Labour policies. Second of all, Blue Labour policy comes from genuine belief in it, not wherever the "controls on immigration" mug did.

the point was that the issue lies in structural and cultural problems with the UK that require deep reforms beyond what just changing one or two policies will accomplish

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Don't know where you're getting your stuff fun but the UK is still a stable democracy. We have our problems, just like every other democracy. What you're doing is widely exaggerating them. Unfortunately for you, the UK will not collapse. This country was resolute through two world wars and this crisis is in no way as bad. It's honestly disgusting to see people advocating for the collapse of this country in service of their political agenda.

There are those who love their country and Queen and seek to improve it, and then there are those who want to see its collapse just because.

English independence is happening by 2050. Hey "seek to improve it" isn't it funny how Englishness is strongest in the regions devastated by Thatcher.........

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

It's just that the immediate result would be a left wing economics, right wing sociocultural party of power that remains in office for decades. Given that this is the exact opposite of both major parties elites priorities, it's not going to happen.

That would be an excellent party. A party that stands up for western values but doesn't suck off the capitalist class.

What "western values"

[Ifreann]

Britain is so stable a democracy that you've had three different PMs since deciding to leave the EU, the third of which is such an utterly gormless buffoon that he nearly killed himself by shaking hands with people he knew to be exposed to an infectious disease.

[-Ra-]

i'm not wildly exaggerating. northern ireland is now an EU satellite state that will be gone by 2050. support for scottish independence has been ticking upward for years and now seems like it will have a consistent majority. northern england is going to be pissed when brexit doesn't solve the problems they thought it would. and the welsh government is finally growing some balls over brexit and corona. your meme country is literally dying. whether or not you're willing to fix it or want to put your fingers in your ears and go la la la is your problem.

Scotland had their chance to leave and the Scots chose to stay. Another referendum isn't going to happen. The Northern Ireland situation is already being solved.

Brexit is the rebirth of Britain. Once we break the chains that have yoked us in with the continent, we will further relations with other Anglosphere countries. This is the perfect time for the British people to redefine themselves as a world power in our own right. We're certainly capable of it, and breaking with Brussels was the first step. If anything, this is the rejuvenation of Britain. Now, the Northern Englanders whom you speak about so disparagingly are heard as much as elite liberal Londoners. We are a stronger democracy than ever before.

also "we survived WWII" is a terrible point. you can't assume the country will live on forever because well we survived WWII. WWII was a unifying experience whereas the recent crises have been dividing experiences. the old generation that got british patriotism from WWII are dying off and being replace by pissy younger generations who see themselves as having been consistently shafted.

In World War I and II there were idiots who said Britain would surely fall and this country would be in ruin. In the 70s when this country was the "sick man of Europe" people said the same thing. They were wrong. This country survived, and it will continue to survive because there are people across this country who believe in it and who will fight for it. If we listened to the pessimists, we would be nowhere. And I'll be damned if the British people stop believing in Britain.

[Vassenor]

i'm not wildly exaggerating. northern ireland is now an EU satellite state that will be gone by 2050. support for scottish independence has been ticking upward for years and now seems like it will have a consistent majority. northern england is going to be pissed when brexit doesn't solve the problems they thought it would. and the welsh government is finally growing some balls over brexit and corona. your meme country is literally dying. whether or not you're willing to fix it or want to put your fingers in your ears and go la la la is your problem.

Scotland had their chance to leave and the Scots chose to stay. Another referendum isn't going to happen. The Northern Ireland situation is already being solved.

Brexit is the rebirth of Britain. Once we break the chains that have yoked us in with the continent, we will further relations with other Anglosphere countries. This is the perfect time for the British people to redefine themselves as a world power in our own right. We're certainly capable of it, and breaking with Brussels was the first step. If anything, this is the rejuvenation of Britain. Now, the Northern Englanders whom you speak about so disparagingly are heard as much as elite liberal Londoners. We are a stronger democracy than ever before.

And how's that working out so far?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The only thing Brexit will achieve in the long run is PRC'ian colonisation. And guess who's not playing the long game? Certainly not Downing Street 10. Peking is though.

[The Reformed American Republic]

That would be an excellent party. A party that stands up for western values but doesn't suck off the capitalist class.

What "western values"

The type of things you Stalinists want to destroy.