UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[-Ra-]

Oh I hadn't heard of them.

...you've seriously never heard of ARM? Lol.

No, probably because they make computer chips and not computers themselves. And I'm not a tech geek.

[Philjia]

What's the largest then?

ARM.

ARM designs CPUs and licenses them, rather than manufacturing them themselves, which makes sense as a business model since ARM CPUs are mainly used in applications where they are an integral part of the finished product, like smartphones.

[Souseiseki]

post

Tfw you end hunger and homelessnes by letting all of the hungry people starve to death.

dude i literally just said i would post a document showing how the 1980s soviet diet was equal to or superior to the 1980s american diet if you tried this. please stop living in the 1930s.

also famine in 1946 wowwww i wonder what could have caused this mysterious event another failure of communism

Also it's that my government controls what I can say and disappears people who disagree with the party because it provides me with a terribly mediocre "free" education.

the soviet education system was one of the best in the world.

The better Korea, ladies and gentlemen

i said it was better in the 1950s and got progressively worse until it collapsed in the 1990s. your image of 2000s north korea does not disprove this. are you even reading my posts?

I like how this is the excuse for the slaughter of millions of people. People in the UK are at the top of the world because our ancestors worked hard during the industrial revolution. 7.5 million people died in the Soviet Union, and then it ended up collapsing anyway.

it's not an excuse, it's an explanation. the british empire ruthlessly exploited and murdered people around the world but no one pretends this is some inherent failure of capitalism.

though hit me up in 20 years and we'll see if the UK is still around lol.

Wherever these things did come, it was after extensive policies of glasnost and perestroika, and yet not even that could save the Soviet Union from falling.

well at least now you've managed to imagine a soviet union beyond "literally the 1930s for 100 years", even if your belief that everything good came after gorbachev is also wrong

Nobody here is trying to argue that the Soviet Union wasn't powerful. It was. The Soviet Union was a powerful Mordor-like shithole. The Soviet Union's power is more attributable to its size than to communism really.

if it was all about size then russia wouldn't have went through decades of being worse than the soviet union then electing a petro dictator to desperately try reclaim its past

i think this conversation is almost done, but i will spoiler my response anyway

ARM.

ARM designs CPUs and licenses them, rather than manufacturing them themselves, which makes sense as a business model since ARM CPUs are mainly used in applications where they are an integral part of the finished product, like smartphones.

unfortunately i have decided to show my support for scotland by only using computers made in scotland. i will be back when i have managed to design my scotcomp.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

People in the UK are at the top of the world because our ancestors worked hard during the industrial revolution

LOL that's very funny. "our".

[The New California Republic]

unfortunately i have decided to show my support for scotland by only using computers made in scotland. i will be back when i have managed to design my scotcomp.

No need to make one, it's already been done. Pick up an early model ZX Spectrum, as it's highly likely that it was made in Dundee.

[Vassenor]

post

Tfw you end hunger and homelessnes by letting all of the hungry people starve to death.

dude i literally just said i would post a document showing how the 1980s soviet diet was equal to or superior to the 1980s american diet if you tried this. please stop living in the 1930s.

also famine in 1946 wowwww i wonder what could have caused this mysterious event another failure of communism

Also it's that my government controls what I can say and disappears people who disagree with the party because it provides me with a terribly mediocre "free" education.

the soviet education system was one of the best in the world.

The better Korea, ladies and gentlemen

i said it was better in the 1950s and got progressively worse until it collapsed in the 1990s. your image of 2000s north korea does not disprove this. are you even reading my posts?

I like how this is the excuse for the slaughter of millions of people. People in the UK are at the top of the world because our ancestors worked hard during the industrial revolution. 7.5 million people died in the Soviet Union, and then it ended up collapsing anyway.

it's not an excuse, it's an explanation. the british empire ruthlessly exploited and murdered people around the world but no one pretends this is some inherent failure of capitalism.

though hit me up in 20 years and we'll see if the UK is still around lol.

Wherever these things did come, it was after extensive policies of glasnost and perestroika, and yet not even that could save the Soviet Union from falling.

well at least now you've managed to imagine a soviet union beyond "literally the 1930s for 100 years", even if your belief that everything good came after gorbachev is also wrong

Nobody here is trying to argue that the Soviet Union wasn't powerful. It was. The Soviet Union was a powerful Mordor-like shithole. The Soviet Union's power is more attributable to its size than to communism really.

if it was all about size then russia wouldn't have went through decades of being worse than the soviet union then electing a petro dictator to desperately try reclaim its past

i think this conversation is almost done, but i will spoiler my response anyway

ARM designs CPUs and licenses them, rather than manufacturing them themselves, which makes sense as a business model since ARM CPUs are mainly used in applications where they are an integral part of the finished product, like smartphones.

unfortunately i have decided to show my support for scotland by only using computers made in scotland. i will be back when i have managed to design my scotcomp.

Stock up on old IBMs.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Went through like 20 iterations and re-edits of dumb jokes about irn bru and scottish pc's and none of them worked.


I have failed this day

[-Ra-]

dude i literally just said i would post a document showing how the 1980s soviet diet was equal to or superior to the 1980s american diet if you tried this. please stop living in the 1930s.

The efficacy of the study you're mentioning has been called into question. Quoting:

Birman also criticized the CIA's attempt to compare diets. He noted that the Soviet diet was much higher in bread and potatoes than the American diet, and higher in fish consumption, but much lower in meat and fruits. The average Soviet consumed more dairy than the average American, but this was mostly cheese (usually tvorog), as opposed to fresh milk. Some of these products, such as bread, were often considered superior to the American versions, especially by emigres (anecdote: this is true), but others, such as meat, were considered inferior. Soviet citizens also tended to spend a much larger proportion of their income on food purchases compared to Americans. Interestingly, much of the meat and dairy supply available to Soviet citizens came from private production by farmers, rather than from collective or state farms.

Birman notes that there were significant inequalities in what was available in major cities such as Leningrad and Moscow and more provincial ones, as well as what was available to party members versus nonparty members, and that certain foods (say, pineapples or avocadoes) that one could find in US supermarkets were simply unavailable to anyone. Soviet citizens also often consumed fresh products much more based on seasonality. And I should note that Birman doesn't hold back in his criticisms of the US either: he notes that rural and urban poverty in the US has real malnutrition issues, and that just because US supermarkets have choices doesn't mean that everyone has the ability to exercise that choice.

I like the excuse that it's okay that the Soviet Union killed millions of its citizens in the 40s in addition to orchestrating an artificial famine in Ukraine because Soviet citizens in the 1980s ate moderately well.

the soviet education system was one of the best in the world.

So good that it prevented the Soviet Union's collapse, right.

Funny that the brightest minds of the Soviet Union often migrated to the west, often at great risk.

i said it was better in the 1950s and got progressively worse until it collapsed in the 1990s. your image of 2000s north korea does not disprove this. are you even reading my posts?

This also is untrue. Quoting:

In 1961 an ambitious seven-year plan was launched to continue industrial expansion and increase living standards, but within three years it became clear this was failing and the plan period was extended to 1970. The failure was due to reduced support from the Soviet Union when North Korea aligned more with China, and military pressure from the U.S. leading to increased defence spending. In 1965 South Korea's rate of economic growth first exceeded North Korea's in most industrial areas, though South Korea's per capita GNP remained lower than North Korea's.

if it was all about size then russia wouldn't have went through decades of being worse than the soviet union then electing a petro dictator to desperately try reclaim its past

Modern Russia is poorly developed economicly and socially. As with the Soviet Union, its only asset is its large amounts of land.

[The New California Republic]

Went through like 20 iterations and re-edits of dumb jokes about irn bru and scottish pc's and none of them worked.


I have failed this day

Haggis Inside.

[Hurdergaryp]

Went through like 20 iterations and re-edits of dumb jokes about irn bru and scottish pc's and none of them worked.


I have failed this day

Tragic. But let's face it, today is clearly -Ra-'s day. Such a bright young man, absolutely unflinching when it comes to raw domination of a thread. Some might call it agitprop spam, but I call it art. Not necessarily good art, but still art.

[Nuroblav]

Tragic. But let's face it, today is clearly -Ra-'s day. Such a bright young man, absolutely unflinching when it comes to raw domination of a thread. Some might call it agitprop spam, but I call it art. Not necessarily good art, but still art.

I mean technically anything constitutes as art, so yes it is art in a sense.

[-Ra-]

Went through like 20 iterations and re-edits of dumb jokes about irn bru and scottish pc's and none of them worked.


I have failed this day

Tragic. But let's face it, today is clearly -Ra-'s day. Such a bright young man, absolutely unflinching when it comes to raw domination of a thread. Some might call it agitprop spam, but I call it art. Not necessarily good art, but still art.

Спасибо, comrade.

[Souseiseki]

post

I like the excuse that it's okay that the Soviet Union killed millions of its citizens in the 40s in addition to orchestrating an artificial famine in Ukraine because Soviet citizens in the 1980s ate moderately well.

you're losing track of the original point. you said that china and the soviet union did not pull millions out of poverty. whether or not millions died in the 1930s is irrelevant to this point unless it directly proves that the soviet union was starving and poor forever which it does not. since you've now admitted that soviet citizens ate moderately well in the 1980s we can compare this to the lives of serfs before the soviet union and conclude that, yes, the soviet union did indeed pull millions out of poverty.

So good that it prevented the Soviet Union's collapse, right.

countries with good education systems can collapse. terrible argument. in fact it is such a terrible argument that i am going to assume that you are not actually trying to dispute that the soviet union had one of the world's best education systems and decided to resort to a cheeky potshot.

This also is untrue. Quoting:

it is true. quoting:

http://www2.law.columbia.edu/course_00S ... nomics.htm

North Korea achieved more rapid economic progress than the South through the 1950s and 1960s under its centralized direction of the economy. Extensive Soviet and Chinese aid also helped.

Rapid development in South Korea began in the mid-1960s, spurred by military junta leaders who recognized that economic achievement would bolster a regime that lacked political legitimacy for many citizens.

it's also worth remembering that south korea's big economic booms were also in large part due to government five year plans instead of the invisible hand of the free market and the magic of capitalism doing its work

Went through like 20 iterations and re-edits of dumb jokes about irn bru and scottish pc's and none of them worked.


I have failed this day

i saw your posts and have reported them under scotland's new hate speech bill. justice will be done.

[Nuroblav]

In an attempt to get le thread a bit more back on topic (and on the subject of Scotland ), what's going on with Scotland and the exam results? Looks like some of the results got misgraded or something.

[The Huskar Social Union]

post

I like the excuse that it's okay that the Soviet Union killed millions of its citizens in the 40s in addition to orchestrating an artificial famine in Ukraine because Soviet citizens in the 1980s ate moderately well.

you're losing track of the original point. you said that china and the soviet union did not pull millions out of poverty. whether or not millions died in the 1930s is irrelevant to this point unless it directly proves that the soviet union was starving and poor forever which it does not. since you've now admitted that soviet citizens ate moderately well in the 1980s we can compare this to the lives of serfs before the soviet union and conclude that, yes, the soviet union did indeed pull millions out of poverty.

So good that it prevented the Soviet Union's collapse, right.

countries with good education systems can collapse. terrible argument. in fact it is such a terrible argument that i am going to assume that you are not actually trying to dispute that the soviet union had one of the world's best education systems and decided to resort to a cheeky potshot.

This also is untrue. Quoting:

it is true. quoting:

http://www2.law.columbia.edu/course_00S ... nomics.htm

North Korea achieved more rapid economic progress than the South through the 1950s and 1960s under its centralized direction of the economy. Extensive Soviet and Chinese aid also helped.

Rapid development in South Korea began in the mid-1960s, spurred by military junta leaders who recognized that economic achievement would bolster a regime that lacked political legitimacy for many citizens.

it's also worth remembering that south korea's big economic booms were also in large part due to government five year plans instead of the invisible hand of the free market and the magic of capitalism doing its work

Went through like 20 iterations and re-edits of dumb jokes about irn bru and scottish pc's and none of them worked.


I have failed this day

i saw your posts and have reported them under scotland's new hate speech bill. justice will be done.

D :

[Salandriagado]

In an attempt to get le thread a bit more back on topic (and on the subject of Scotland ), what's going on with Scotland and the exam results? Looks like some of the results got misgraded or something.

A whole lot of nothing, mostly. Exams didn't happen because of Covid. Instead, teachers were asked for their assessments of how students would have done, had the exams happened. Teachers were, across the board, hopelessly optimistic, and so the results were shifted down to be more realistic.

[The Huskar Social Union]

In an attempt to get le thread a bit more back on topic (and on the subject of Scotland ), what's going on with Scotland and the exam results? Looks like some of the results got misgraded or something.

I wonder how the results will be here in NI for our kids.

[-Ra-]

you're losing track of the original point. you said that china and the soviet union did not pull millions out of poverty. whether or not millions died in the 1930s is irrelevant to this point unless it directly proves that the soviet union was starving and poor forever which it does not. since you've now admitted that soviet citizens ate moderately well in the 1980s we can compare this to the lives of serfs before the soviet union and conclude that, yes, the soviet union did indeed pull millions out of poverty.

But the thing is that it didn't pull people out of poverty. The CIA study is deeply flawed anyway, but poor people are poor regardless of whether they eat or not. But I guess I'm glad that the people of Moscow ate well while rural farmers starved.

Many Soviet farmers, called kulaks, were doing very well before communism came around. Then the kulaks were killed and the condition for poorer farmers didn't get better either.

countries with good education systems can collapse. terrible argument. in fact it is such a terrible argument that i am going to assume that you are not actually trying to dispute that the soviet union had one of the world's best education systems and decided to resort to a cheeky potshot.

The Soviet Union didn't have a great education system though. It did well in some areas like maths or science, but for most soviet citizens the educational system was decrepit and awful.

This also is untrue. Quoting:

When your economy grows because it's bolstered by foreign nations. Peak communism.

[Kavagrad]

I see that a history understander has logged on.

[Fartsniffage]

In an attempt to get le thread a bit more back on topic (and on the subject of Scotland ), what's going on with Scotland and the exam results? Looks like some of the results got misgraded or something.

A whole lot of nothing, mostly. Exams didn't happen because of Covid. Instead, teachers were asked for their assessments of how students would have done, had the exams happened. Teachers were, across the board, hopelessly optimistic, and so the results were shifted down to be more realistic.

In fairness, my French GCSE estimate grade was a D. I got an A.

[Philjia]

In an attempt to get le thread a bit more back on topic (and on the subject of Scotland ), what's going on with Scotland and the exam results? Looks like some of the results got misgraded or something.

Results are based on teachers estimates adjusted for past trends, deprived areas tend to get poor results, ergo bright kids from poor areas get shafted.

[Souseiseki]

post

But the thing is that it didn't pull people out of poverty.

i mean there's only so many ways i can say "they were poor before and significantly less poor later". do you have some other definition of "pulling out of poverty"?

The Soviet Union didn't have a great education system though. It did well in some areas like maths or science, but for most soviet citizens the educational system was decrepit and awful.

it had strengths and weaknesses like other systems. i'm sure i could go around capitalist countries and start picking out examples of their education systems have failed or are failing large portions of their population too if i felt like it.

When your economy grows because it's bolstered by foreign nations. Peak communism.

1) bolstered by foreign commuist nations, who should according to you have been too poor to help 2) you think south korea had no american help?

you're losing track of the original point. you said that china and the soviet union did not pull millions out of poverty. whether or not millions died in the 1930s is irrelevant to this point unless it directly proves that the soviet union was starving and poor forever which it does not. since you've now admitted that soviet citizens ate moderately well in the 1980s we can compare this to the lives of serfs before the soviet union and conclude that, yes, the soviet union did indeed pull millions out of poverty.



countries with good education systems can collapse. terrible argument. in fact it is such a terrible argument that i am going to assume that you are not actually trying to dispute that the soviet union had one of the world's best education systems and decided to resort to a cheeky potshot.



it is true. quoting:

http://www2.law.columbia.edu/course_00S ... nomics.htm



it's also worth remembering that south korea's big economic booms were also in large part due to government five year plans instead of the invisible hand of the free market and the magic of capitalism doing its work

i saw your posts and have reported them under scotland's new hate speech bill. justice will be done.

D :

don't worry as a registered scot i can be your character witness

In an attempt to get le thread a bit more back on topic (and on the subject of Scotland ), what's going on with Scotland and the exam results? Looks like some of the results got misgraded or something.

exam board noticed that the predicted results from this year and the actual results from previous years didn't match so they went ham and started blasting people grades until they matched

[-Ra-]

i mean there's only so many ways i can say "they were poor before and significantly less poor later". do you have some other definition of "pulling out of poverty"?

The Russian people were in deep poverty during the Tsarist era and then began a little less poor during the Soviet Era, especially during its sunset years when the Soviet Union liberalised. The Russian people were still by in large in poverty and reliant on bread lines to get food while Western capitalist countries like the United States experienced an economic boom heretofore unseen.

Not to mention the fact that that reduction of poverty was based directly on the mass murder of millions of people.

1) bolstered by foreign commuist nations, who should according to you have been too poor to help 2) you think south korea had no american help?

1) Bolstered by foreign communist nations who, instead of helping their own people, sent aid to North Korea in order to prop up international communism
2) America helped South Korea rebuild and traded with it extensively. South Korea liberalised its economy and opened itself up to free trade with the world. As we saw in India, China, and Japan, trade liberalising leads to massive economic growth. Where is South Korea now? And where is the North?

[Philjia]

Improbably, Liz Truss has become involved in a second cheese related gaffe.

[The New California Republic]

Improbably, Liz Truss has become involved in a second cheese related gaffe.

Got a non-FT link?