UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

ah yes liberal individualist social control

"Have sex before you're twenty with as many people as possible, bigot."

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Many of your posts consist of railing against the Left. Please don't try to turn this thread into that please.

"Please do not challenge my political opinions thank you"

why haven't you challenged my political opinions???

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

And nearly 80% of the population of capitalism central aren't living paycheck to paycheck because it's all fake news naturally. And naturally the quadruple winter whammy isn't going to tip Britain even further towards this future.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Some people (cough cough Labour) are rather entitled in this country.

We English are entitled to our country. Do you have a problem with that?

[-Ra-]

"Please do not challenge my political opinions thank you"

No, that's not it at all. I really don't give a shit if you challenge political opinions, just don't drift into threadjack while you are doing it, thanks.

We are still talking about UK politics are we not?

Peak entitlement is Brits clamouring for communism and blabbering all about the evils of capitalism when they live in a society that is as prosperous as it because of capitalism. It's especially ironic since we have many people living in this country who come from former communist hellholes like Poland. Surely this country would have learnt a lesson after the Cold War. Alas, it is becoming increasingly controversial to suggest that individuals should have liberties.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Some people (cough cough Labour) are rather entitled in this country.

We English are entitled to our country. :) Do you have a problem with that?

He lives in a city state with state capitalism and Leekuanyewism as its core tenets. He doesn't understand what other people are labouring under.

[Hirota]

Labour under Corbyn and its Adherence to identity politics is not correlative with Marxism.

Marx argued revolutions can only be successful if oppressed classes become sufficiently unified to be able to outnumber and overcome those in power. Identity politics is decisive and arguably counter to marx - after all, how can the workers unite across racial lines if today’s anti-racist movement is right that the lived experiences of black and white people are so totally different? And if white workers are inherently racist, why would black workers want to join with them?

Corbyn didn't on identity politics. Thankfully, identity politics is less common here than across the pond it seems to me.

Corbyn is an avowed Marxist who has been on record praising Marx.

Well, obviously my opinion of Marx can differ from other peoples. People might point to Marx's support of the suffrage movement as him being able to move beyond his almost single-minded focus on economic disparities as the root of all problems in the world, but I don't think he'd have appreciated the divisive nature of more modern crusades, especially it's animosity towards the working class regardless of racial lines. Given he calls for people to reject the artificial differences imposed upon us by our rulers as a means of keeping us at war with one another, is key to bringing about change should be enough evidence that he'd have taken a dim view of breaking up the broad church to bring about change.

And how are we defining "identity politics" today?

Personally: https://www.lexico.com/definition/identity_politics

It fits my point well and is consistent with my previous description of identity politics as segrationalist in nature - like I said, Marx argued for a broad church to bring about change, identity politics advocates for division, or "exclusive political alliances" as Oxford dictionaries more kindly describes it.

Its bandied about so much and with such ignorance it has basically lost all meaning.

I don't see how you can make me accountable for other peoples abuse of words. As long as I chose to remain consistent when referring to the phrase I retain the right to use it accordingly. But I appreciate what you mean - it's the same as how "fascist" is thrown around too liberally.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Alas, it is becoming increasingly controversial to suggest that individuals should have liberties.

Says the guy from a country that still whips people like its neighbouring Islamic nations. Smh.

[The New California Republic]

No, that's not it at all. I really don't give a shit if you challenge political opinions, just don't drift into threadjack while you are doing it, thanks.

We are still talking about UK politics are we not?

Your comments are becoming far more generic than that, please try to stay on track. This is the "UK Politics" thread, not the "weird falcon-headed god rails against the Left" thread.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

We are still talking about UK politics are we not?

Your comments are becoming far more generic than that, please try to stay on track. This is the "UK Politics" thread, not the "weird falcon-headed god rails against the Left" thread.

Read Leekuanyewist rails against liberty.

[Hirota]

We are still talking about UK politics are we not?

Your comments are becoming far more generic than that, please try to stay on track. This is the "UK Politics" thread, not the "weird falcon-headed god rails against the Left" thread.

Not only that, but the "left" and "right" are lazy buckets to conveniently throw groups of people into with little thought or attention. There are plenty of people on the "left" critical of what other people on the "left" are doing.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Your comments are becoming far more generic than that, please try to stay on track. This is the "UK Politics" thread, not the "weird falcon-headed god rails against the Left" thread.

Not only that, but the "left" and "right" are lazy buckets to conveniently throw groups of people into with little thought or attention. There are plenty of people on the "left" critical of what other people on the "left" are doing.

I mean you guys are debating a Leekwanyewist.

[-Ra-]

It fits my point well and is consistent with my previous description of identity politics as segrationalist in nature - like I said, Marx argued for a broad church to bring about change, identity politics advocates for division, or "exclusive political alliances" as Oxford dictionaries more kindly describes it.

I would argue that Marx was too obsessed with identity politics, but one of a different sort. Modern identity politics is focused on race, sex, sexual orientation, while Marx's was based on class. Marx was not the great unifier.

Class distinctions are somewhat tiresome, especially if they are semi-officially engrained into society as we sort of have here in the UK. Marx shouldn't be understood as a modern-day identity politician, but he wasn't broad church of humanity all people are equal type of bloke.

Edit: Oh and.

Remember when communism pulled millions of peasants out of poverty?

I don't either, because it never happened.

[Souseiseki]

But that's enough about Capitalism.

I like how you criticise capitalism and yet are able to use this site on a computer that all exist because of capitalism.

If you want to stay true to the revolution you should buy computers from Venezuela

dude do you not realize how terrible this argument is lol. it is literally "you say you hate feudalism and yet you live in it??? interesting!".

though btw the soviet union did make computers for a while

fake edit: and your computers are built in china with materials from africa

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Check out Thatcher’s Children, Blair’s Babies.

Thatcherism won. The property-owning democracy was invincible. Then, mere months after the article was published, this generational consensus came crashing down - I really think people don't get how effective Labour's 2017 online campaign was at targeting the young and turning them from socially liberal Thatcherites (see how they voted in 2015) into socially liberal Corbynites. If the Conservatives had abolished tuition fees, had made sure the young didn't feel the impact of austerity, and had extended the property-owning democracy to them, right now they would be as dominant as Japan's LDP.

But instead they fucked it all up.

[Hirota]

Not only that, but the "left" and "right" are lazy buckets to conveniently throw groups of people into with little thought or attention. There are plenty of people on the "left" critical of what other people on the "left" are doing.

I mean you guys are debating a Leekwanyewist.

Can you explain that using English words?

oooh, the old Singapore PM.

[-Ra-]

I mean you guys are debating a Leekwanyewist.

Can you explain that using English words?

Lee Kuan Yew was the first president of Singapore.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I mean you guys are debating a Leekwanyewist.

Can you explain that using English words? :blink:

Imagine Fascism but it actually works.

[Souseiseki]

It fits my point well and is consistent with my previous description of identity politics as segrationalist in nature - like I said, Marx argued for a broad church to bring about change, identity politics advocates for division, or "exclusive political alliances" as Oxford dictionaries more kindly describes it.

I would argue that Marx was too obsessed with identity politics, but one of a different sort. Modern identity politics is focused on race, sex, sexual orientation, while Marx's was based on class. Marx was not the great unifier.

Class distinctions are somewhat tiresome, especially if they are semi-officially engrained into society as we sort of have here in the UK. Marx shouldn't be understood as a modern-day identity politician, but he wasn't broad church of humanity all people are equal type of bloke.

Edit: Oh and.

Remember when communism pulled millions of peasants out of poverty?

I don't either, because it never happened.

the soviet union and china, arguments over whether or not they were truly communist or not, literally did pull mullions of peasants out of poverty. like. that was their main thing.

Check out Thatcher’s Children, Blair’s Babies.

Thatcherism won. The property-owning democracy was invincible. Then, mere months after the article was published, this generational consensus came crashing down - I really think people don't get how effective Labour's 2017 online campaign was at targeting the young and turning them from socially liberal Thatcherites (see how they voted in 2015) into socially liberal Corbynites. If the Conservatives had abolished tuition fees, had made sure the young didn't feel the impact of austerity, and had extended the property-owning democracy to them, right now they would be as dominant as Japan's LDP.

But instead they fucked it all up.

abolishing tuition fees and getting rid of austerity would not be very thatcherite

[-Ra-]

though btw the soviet union did make computers for a while

Remember when Soviet computers were so successful and ubiquitous that everyone had them and they were touted as a success of communism?

I don't, because it never happened.

fake edit: and your computers are built in china with materials from africa

Yes. Free trade is good.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Free trade with PRC is overturning the Western Liberal world order you claim to support as we speak.

[-Ra-]

the soviet union and china, arguments over whether or not they were truly communist or not, literally did pull mullions of peasants out of poverty. like. that was their main thing.

They did not do this.

The Soviet Union killed hundreds of thousands of its farmers in dekulakisation.

China under Mao forced farmers to make steel and stole their produce, causing a famine that killed as many as 55 million people.

[Souseiseki]

Remember when Soviet computers were so successful and ubiquitous that everyone had them and they were touted as a success of communism?

the soviet computers failed and western computers succeeded was due to a variety of factors of which "capitalism good communism bad" is not a primary one. british computers also failed but you don't put that down to a failure of capitalism for what should be obvious reasons.

Yes. Free trade is good.

the point was that your american computers aren't even really american anymore.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Check out Thatcher’s Children, Blair’s Babies.

Thatcherism won. The property-owning democracy was invincible. Then, mere months after the article was published, this generational consensus came crashing down - I really think people don't get how effective Labour's 2017 online campaign was at targeting the young and turning them from socially liberal Thatcherites (see how they voted in 2015) into socially liberal Corbynites. If the Conservatives had abolished tuition fees, had made sure the young didn't feel the impact of austerity, and had extended the property-owning democracy to them, right now they would be as dominant as Japan's LDP.

But instead they fucked it all up.

abolishing tuition fees and getting rid of austerity would not be very thatcherite

Abolishing tuition fees would be peak Thatcherism. And I'm not talking about the Conservatives not doing austerity, I'm talking about them placing the burden on grandma instead of the young.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Free trade with PRC is how Peking is literally taking over the British nuclear industry.