UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Hurdergaryp]

I think with Covid most people will forget or not notice brexit that much. The damage covid has already done is 10 times worse than the worst case brexit scenario and we are only halfway through.

pretty much. the brexit mess will be obscured by the covid mess, so people can write off the effects of the impending no deal brexit as just covid.

unless of course the combination of covid and no deal brexit together are so bad that it can't just be written off.

That would depend on the death toll.

[Souseiseki]

pretty much. the brexit mess will be obscured by the covid mess, so people can write off the effects of the impending no deal brexit as just covid.

unless of course the combination of covid and no deal brexit together are so bad that it can't just be written off.

Yes the government can blame the pandemic to hide problems caused by Brexit, but it just gives the opposition ammunition to attack them on how badly they have handled the Covid crisis compared to most of the rest of the world.

bold of you to assume there is a competent opposition

[The Blaatschapen]

Yes the government can blame the pandemic to hide problems caused by Brexit, but it just gives the opposition ammunition to attack them on how badly they have handled the Covid crisis compared to most of the rest of the world.

bold of you to assume there is a competent opposition

Labo.... no.
Libe.... no.
SNP.... no.

The SDLP isn't so bad though

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Yes the government can blame the pandemic to hide problems caused by Brexit, but it just gives the opposition ammunition to attack them on how badly they have handled the Covid crisis compared to most of the rest of the world.

bold of you to assume there is a competent opposition

I've seen Keir Starmer performing at PMQs.

[Souseiseki]

https://www.businessforscotland.com/pol ... n-economy/

dear god. 59% trust the scottish government more with the economy, 15% are unsure and 26% trust westminster more with the economy. 48% agree that independence would be good for the economy, 14% were unsure and 38% disagreed. excluding don't knows that's 70% trust the scottish government more with the economy and 55% think independence would be good for the economy. unbelievable. the union is absolutely roasted and toasted.

[The New California Republic]

https://www.businessforscotland.com/poll-70-would-trust-scottish-government-with-powers-to-run-economy/

dear god. 59% trust the scottish government more with the economy, 15% are unsure and 26% trust westminster more with the economy. 48% agree that independence would be good for the economy, 14% were unsure and 38% disagreed. excluding don't knows that's 70% trust the scottish government more with the economy and 55% think independence would be good for the economy. unbelievable. the union is absolutely roasted and toasted.

Odd considering Scotland's deficit has grown faster than rUK.

[Philjia]

https://www.businessforscotland.com/poll-70-would-trust-scottish-government-with-powers-to-run-economy/

dear god. 59% trust the scottish government more with the economy, 15% are unsure and 26% trust westminster more with the economy. 48% agree that independence would be good for the economy, 14% were unsure and 38% disagreed. excluding don't knows that's 70% trust the scottish government more with the economy and 55% think independence would be good for the economy. unbelievable. the union is absolutely roasted and toasted.

Odd considering Scotland's deficit has grown faster than rUK.

People are tired of experts.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

https://www.businessforscotland.com/poll-70-would-trust-scottish-government-with-powers-to-run-economy/

dear god. 59% trust the scottish government more with the economy, 15% are unsure and 26% trust westminster more with the economy. 48% agree that independence would be good for the economy, 14% were unsure and 38% disagreed. excluding don't knows that's 70% trust the scottish government more with the economy and 55% think independence would be good for the economy. unbelievable. the union is absolutely roasted and toasted.

Odd considering Scotland's deficit has grown faster than rUK.

Right but they'll totally be allowed into the EU and so they'll be fine.

Nevermind that Spain's position is still that they'd veto Scotland's application.

[Souseiseki]

Odd considering Scotland's deficit has grown faster than rUK.

Right but they'll totally be allowed into the EU and so they'll be fine.

Nevermind that Spain's position is still that they'd veto Scotland's application.

spain's position is that they will veto if illegal secession but not if legal secession

how many times does not this need to be said

[The New California Republic]

Odd considering Scotland's deficit has grown faster than rUK.

Right but they'll totally be allowed into the EU and so they'll be fine.

And I think the attitude of folk would change when they realise that a hard border would almost certainly be needed in such an event.

[CoraSpia]

I really don't understand Brexit supporters who are against Scottish independence.

[Hirota]

I really don't understand Brexit supporters who are against Scottish independence.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but given how much we fund Scotland - to the tune of 15 billion last fiscal year to make up their shortfall, if they want to leave I'd let them.

That''s 288 million a week that could go to the NHS, if anyone fancies putting it on a bus

And it's been a constant deficit for a generation.

[CoraSpia]

I really don't understand Brexit supporters who are against Scottish independence.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but given how much we fund Scotland - to the tune of 15 billion last fiscal year to make up their shortfall, if they want to leave I'd let them.

That''s 288 million a week that could go to the NHS, if anyone fancies putting it on a bus

And it's been a constant deficit for a generation.

If they want to leave I'd let them...just because they want to leave.

[Philjia]

I really don't understand Brexit supporters who are against Scottish independence.

Because they're British nationalists so Britain doesn't need Europe but the UK itself has to stick together.

[Hirota]

Right but they'll totally be allowed into the EU and so they'll be fine.

Nevermind that Spain's position is still that they'd veto Scotland's application.

spain's position is that they will veto if illegal secession but not if legal secession

how many times does not this need to be said

Ah yeah, I remember "Spain’s top diplomat" to Scotland saying that. I'm sure that was reassuring.

Just like I'm sure he's got the authority to say that for certain right?

At best you can say it's not clear if they would or wouldn't.

[The New California Republic]

I really don't understand Brexit supporters who are against Scottish independence.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but given how much we fund Scotland - to the tune of 15 billion last fiscal year to make up their shortfall, if they want to leave I'd let them.

That''s 288 million a week that could go to the NHS, if anyone fancies putting it on a bus

And it's been a constant deficit for a generation.

Indeed, and it's one of the reasons why back during the independence referendum I firmly believed that it'd be an economic disaster, and the recent increase in the deficit at a greater rate in comparison to rUK has just reaffirmed that belief.

[Hirota]

I didn't vote for Brexit, but given how much we fund Scotland - to the tune of 15 billion last fiscal year to make up their shortfall, if they want to leave I'd let them.

That''s 288 million a week that could go to the NHS, if anyone fancies putting it on a bus

And it's been a constant deficit for a generation.

Indeed, and it's one of the reasons why back during the independence referendum I firmly believed that it'd be an economic disaster, and the recent increase in the deficit at a greater rate in comparison to rUK has just reaffirmed that belief.

I mean, it doesn't have to be done for purely economic reasons - Brexit wasn't done for primarily economic reasons. Scotland probably was looking in a better shape to be independent when Brent Crude was still making money.

[Souseiseki]

I really don't understand Brexit supporters who are against Scottish independence.

I didn't vote for Brexit, but given how much we fund Scotland - to the tune of 15 billion last fiscal year to make up their shortfall, if they want to leave I'd let them.

That''s 288 million a week that could go to the NHS, if anyone fancies putting it on a bus

And it's been a constant deficit for a generation.

one of the most disgusting effects of london being an economic and political blackhole is that the rest of the UK is systematically under developed and atrophied then when they complain about it or suggest they'd be better off by themselves they're told "but aaaah hmm are you sure you're not too poor for that?"

spain's position is that they will veto if illegal secession but not if legal secession

how many times does not this need to be said

Ah yeah, I remember "Spain’s top diplomat" to Scotland saying that. I'm sure that was reassuring.

Just like I'm sure he's got the authority to say that for certain right?

At best you can say it's not clear if they would or wouldn't.

based on that article it seems like the big problem was about him saying scotland would not need to queue up to rejoin the EU, not about the blocking due to secession part. and the comment he made that in response to was about someone suggesting spain would veto scotland if it left during brexit and it would need to queue up to join the EU after. so nothing in your links suggests that spain would actually veto the application of a legally independent scotland.

while it's certainly possible they could still veto broadly speaking the idea that spain is going to fight every independence movement ever in every country to own the catalans is silly

[The New California Republic]

Indeed, and it's one of the reasons why back during the independence referendum I firmly believed that it'd be an economic disaster, and the recent increase in the deficit at a greater rate in comparison to rUK has just reaffirmed that belief.

I mean, it doesn't have to be done for purely economic reasons - Brexit wasn't done for primarily economic reasons. Scotland probably was looking in a better shape to be independent when Brent Crude was still making money.

Oh don't worry there were a whole host of other reasons why I voted the way I did.

[Souseiseki]

scotland would have been a country on the level or switzerland or norway thanks to the north sea oil had it been allowed to go independent and invest in itself in the 70s. the UK government, having realized this during its own internal reports, declared the reports top secret and hid them then proceeded to use the oil revenues to prop up its own government and failed to properly invest in scotland. decades later, this is used as an argument in favour of remaining in the UK.

[The New California Republic]

scotland would have been a country on the level or switzerland or norway thanks to the north sea oil had it been allowed to go independent and invest in itself in the 70s. the UK government, having realized this during its own internal reports, declared the reports top secret and hid them then proceeded to use the oil revenues to prop up its own government and failed to properly invest in scotland. decades later, this is used as an argument in favour of remaining in the UK.

Since the support for it wasn't strong in the 70s the point is moot.

[Souseiseki]

scotland would have been a country on the level or switzerland or norway thanks to the north sea oil had it been allowed to go independent and invest in itself in the 70s. the UK government, having realized this during its own internal reports, declared the reports top secret and hid them then proceeded to use the oil revenues to prop up its own government and failed to properly invest in scotland. decades later, this is used as an argument in favour of remaining in the UK.

Since the support for it wasn't strong in the 70s the point is moot.

i mean the point about the oil revenues being squandered and the lack of investment in scotland aren't made moot at all by that. and considering the fact that the reason they hid the report in the first place was because they were worried that releasing it would increase support for scottish independence, i'd say it's very relevant. the key point is that scotland was treated like shit and will continue to be treated like shit.

[The New California Republic]

Since the support for it wasn't strong in the 70s the point is moot.

i mean the point about the oil revenues being squandered and the lack of investment in scotland aren't made moot at all by that. and considering the fact that the reason they hid the report in the first place was because they were worried that releasing it would increase support for scottish independence, i'd say it's very relevant. the key point is that scotland was treated like shit and will continue to be treated like shit.

And then again there is no guarantee that independence would have resulted anyway. It's all a lot of "what if's". Was censoring the report wrong? Yes. But the results of it happening otherwise are not known.

And I beg to differ on the "Scotland is treated like shit" part considering devolution happened, we had a referendum, and we continue to be a net gainer in terms of balance of finances as far as rUK is concerned.

[Souseiseki]

i mean the point about the oil revenues being squandered and the lack of investment in scotland aren't made moot at all by that. and considering the fact that the reason they hid the report in the first place was because they were worried that releasing it would increase support for scottish independence, i'd say it's very relevant. the key point is that scotland was treated like shit and will continue to be treated like shit.

And then again there is no guarantee that independence would have resulted anyway. It's all a lot of "what if's". Was censoring the report wrong? Yes. But the results of it happening otherwise are not known.

And I beg to differ on the "Scotland is treated like shit" part considering devolution happened, we had a referendum, and we continue to be a net gainer in terms of balance of finances as far as rUK is concerned.

it took 100-150 years of regularly campaigns to get devolution, the referendum was only held because they thought it would fail and the economic stuff has already been addressed. almost every part of the UK produces less than it takes because it has been systematically mismanaged. the south east takes your human capital and resources to feed itself, gives you a pittance back then tells you to be grateful for its generosity in subsiding you layabouts.

[The New California Republic]

And then again there is no guarantee that independence would have resulted anyway. It's all a lot of "what if's". Was censoring the report wrong? Yes. But the results of it happening otherwise are not known.

And I beg to differ on the "Scotland is treated like shit" part considering devolution happened, we had a referendum, and we continue to be a net gainer in terms of balance of finances as far as rUK is concerned.

it took 100-150 years of regularly campaigns to get devolution, the referendum was only held because they thought it would fail and the economic stuff has already been addressed. almost every part of the UK produces less than it takes because it has been systematically mismanaged. the south east takes your human capital and resources to feed itself, gives you a pittance back then tells you to be grateful for its generosity in subsiding you layabouts.

Again we still got it, that isn't the reason the referendum was held, and considering the deficit is larger than any other part of the UK I beg to differ, although the economic mismanagement part as a whole is on point.