UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Souseiseki]

play ode to joy lmao

[The Huskar Social Union]

play ode to joy lmao

banter

[Souseiseki]

thinking about what someone else said elsewhere, a scottish referendum in 2010 might have resulted in a more comfortable win but unionists blocked it. by delaying it they probably allowed scottish independence sentiment to swell as a result of the cameron government and allow the issue to be intertwined with brexit. both of these factors make the unionist majority less likely to hold and provide a reasonable sounding reason to hold another much sooner than would have otherwise come. it could very well be counted as a massive self-own to neatly compliments the unionists long history of self-owning.

this is interesting because it bears a resemblance to the current situation. with support for scottish independence slowly rising, support for independence being strongest in the younger generations and brexit/coronavirus building support for independence while a no deal brexit / second wave still looms on the horizon there is an argument that time is in fact on nicola sturgeon's side. so despite sturgeon's rallying for a second referendum and johnson's steadfast refusal to ever grant one it could be the case that granting a second referendum soon in an attempt to actually kill scottish independence dead for a generation could be the best move. in the past few days we've seen a few conservative MPs suggest that granting another referendum if the SNP win the next election may be the best option and we've seen michael gove talk about voting franchise for this referendum that is supposedly not going to happen until 2050.

so idk, i'm thinking, maybe they will actually do it and hope they can pull the 55% down before things get even worse in the long term. though the fact that no's lead seemed to be sliced near the end of the first referendum campaign and ended up significantly closer than anticipated must give them cold feet about this. obviously the best option would have been to see the 45% and treat it as a serious warning sign instead of declaring total victory forever and using that as an excuse to shove wheelbarrels of manure down scotland's throat under the mantra of "well you voted to stay so!" but that's apparently politically undesirable so lol.

[The New California Republic]

[...] in an attempt to actually kill scottish independence dead for a generation could be the best move.

Even though during the last one Sturgeon was going on constantly about how it was a once in a generation/once in a lifetime opportunity...

[Souseiseki]

[...] in an attempt to actually kill scottish independence dead for a generation could be the best move.

Even though during the last one Sturgeon was going on constantly about how it was a once in a generation/once in a lifetime opportunity...

regardless of what was actually said and how it should be interpreted the attempt to settle the issue has essentially failed

[The Blaatschapen]

So you're still living in a fantasy world, I see.

Or what are we defining as "[hating] white people and [hating] men" from the BBC today?

You two should date

You need to work on your shipping skills

[Souseiseki]

dominic cummings father in law saying boris might resign within 6 months due to health concerns.

hell at this rate he might resign before brexit and coronavirus are even over.

what a shame that he will miss out on the fruits of his labour and his successor will wrongly have the smashing success of brexit and the UK's coronavirus policies attached to them.

very very sad.

[Vassenor]

dominic cummings father in law saying boris might resign within 6 months due to health concerns.

hell at this rate he might resign before brexit and coronavirus are even over.

what a shame that he will miss out on the fruits of his labour and his successor will wrongly have the smashing success of brexit and the UK's coronavirus policies attached to them.

very very sad.

You're not seriously expecting him to take responsibility for his fuckups are you?

[The Huskar Social Union]

You two should date

You need to work on your shipping skills

Yeah but it would be funny

[Hirota]

dominic cummings father in law saying boris might resign within 6 months due to health concerns.

hell at this rate he might resign before brexit and coronavirus are even over.

what a shame that he will miss out on the fruits of his labour and his successor will wrongly have the smashing success of brexit and the UK's coronavirus policies attached to them.

very very sad.

So, according to both the metro and the daily mail, Sir Humphry Wakefield is said to have told "a holidaymaker" who visited his castle that the Prime Minister is still suffering longer-term ill effects of coronavirus.

So the story here is the PM's advisor wife's dad said something about Bojo to someone random who then said it to someone in the business of making money through salacious headlines and site clicks.

Is that really the standard you two will accept at face value? Because I happen to know the heir of a totally legitimate fortune in Nigeria who should talk to you.

[Philjia]

dominic cummings father in law saying boris might resign within 6 months due to health concerns.

hell at this rate he might resign before brexit and coronavirus are even over.

what a shame that he will miss out on the fruits of his labour and his successor will wrongly have the smashing success of brexit and the UK's coronavirus policies attached to them.

very very sad.

It's surprising how the difficulty of being PM seems to have taken Johnson off guard, given how carefully he orchestrated his rise to power. Nonetheless, he still has pretty good PR and losing him would a serious blow to the Tories, especially considering that they have very few ministers left who could replace him who don't come off as incompetent and/or psychopathic.

[Souseiseki]

dominic cummings father in law saying boris might resign within 6 months due to health concerns.

hell at this rate he might resign before brexit and coronavirus are even over.

what a shame that he will miss out on the fruits of his labour and his successor will wrongly have the smashing success of brexit and the UK's coronavirus policies attached to them.

very very sad.

So, according to both the metro and the daily mail, Sir Humphry Wakefield is said to have told "a holidaymaker" who visited his castle that the Prime Minister is still suffering longer-term ill effects of coronavirus.

So the story here is the PM's advisor wife's dad said something about Bojo to someone random who then said it to someone in the business of making money through salacious headlines and site clicks.

Is that really the standard you two will accept at face value? Because I happen to know the heir of a totally legitimate fortune in Nigeria who should talk to you.

yes. boris is a known liar and piece of shit who is about to get three way screwed so him running away under some excuse about health is entirely plausible.

[Hirota]

So, according to both the metro and the daily mail, Sir Humphry Wakefield is said to have told "a holidaymaker" who visited his castle that the Prime Minister is still suffering longer-term ill effects of coronavirus.

So the story here is the PM's advisor wife's dad said something about Bojo to someone random who then said it to someone in the business of making money through salacious headlines and site clicks.

Is that really the standard you two will accept at face value? Because I happen to know the heir of a totally legitimate fortune in Nigeria who should talk to you.

yes. boris is a known liar and piece of shit who is about to get three way screwed so him running away under some excuse about health is entirely plausible.

That's not an answer. I asked:

Is that really the standard you two will accept at face value?

It's not difficult, a yes or no should suffice.

[Thanatttynia]

thinking about what someone else said elsewhere, a scottish referendum in 2010 might have resulted in a more comfortable win but unionists blocked it. by delaying it they probably allowed scottish independence sentiment to swell as a result of the cameron government and allow the issue to be intertwined with brexit. both of these factors make the unionist majority less likely to hold and provide a reasonable sounding reason to hold another much sooner than would have otherwise come. it could very well be counted as a massive self-own to neatly compliments the unionists long history of self-owning.

this is interesting because it bears a resemblance to the current situation. with support for scottish independence slowly rising, support for independence being strongest in the younger generations and brexit/coronavirus building support for independence while a no deal brexit / second wave still looms on the horizon there is an argument that time is in fact on nicola sturgeon's side. so despite sturgeon's rallying for a second referendum and johnson's steadfast refusal to ever grant one it could be the case that granting a second referendum soon in an attempt to actually kill scottish independence dead for a generation could be the best move. in the past few days we've seen a few conservative MPs suggest that granting another referendum if the SNP win the next election may be the best option and we've seen michael gove talk about voting franchise for this referendum that is supposedly not going to happen until 2050.

so idk, i'm thinking, maybe they will actually do it and hope they can pull the 55% down before things get even worse in the long term. though the fact that no's lead seemed to be sliced near the end of the first referendum campaign and ended up significantly closer than anticipated must give them cold feet about this. obviously the best option would have been to see the 45% and treat it as a serious warning sign instead of declaring total victory forever and using that as an excuse to shove wheelbarrels of manure down scotland's throat under the mantra of "well you voted to stay so!" but that's apparently politically undesirable so lol.

Holding an existential referendum (irreversible if the outcome is 'yes' but apparently eminently repeatable if the answer is 'no') during two concurrent national political crises seems pretty stupid. People are very likely to translate any malaise they feel into support for Scottish independence - this happened in the EU referendum during a time of relative stability in the country. Agreeing to a referendum before Brexit is completed and the country at least partially recovers seems especially silly... beyond that, allowing a second 'once-in-a-generation' after a few years means, even if the answer is the same, the SNP will keep on asking like clockwork and at some point the answer is going to be 'yes' for whatever reason.

Secessionist movements always have the rhetorical upper-hand anyway, since they deal in 'the future' whilst unionists have to try to defend 'the present' and all accompanying baggage, cf. pro-independence is 'positive' and 'hopeful' and anti-independence is 'negative' and 'dull' etc. For Westminster to give away its best hand (our already having had a referendum with a negative result a very short time ago) would be supremely self-defeating (but then again in Westminster that might make it a more attractive option lol.)

[Souseiseki]

yes. boris is a known liar and piece of shit who is about to get three way screwed so him running away under some excuse about health is entirely plausible.

That's not an answer. I asked:

Is that really the standard you two will accept at face value?

It's not difficult, a yes or no should suffice.

you've been given an answer. it is not my fault that the UK's various levels of corruption (petty nobles running everything through backdoor comms and gentleman's agreements vs lying media) have crossed streams.

it's like the david cameron thing. whether or not he molested a dead pig is not the real story. the real story is that he is of such character that people are willing to believe he porked a pig without much encouragement.

[The Blaatschapen]

That's not an answer. I asked:



It's not difficult, a yes or no should suffice.

you've been given an answer. it is not my fault that the UK's various levels of corruption (petty nobles running everything through backdoor comms and gentleman's agreements vs lying media) have crossed streams.

Don't cross the streams, it will bring about a giant version of Gary Lineker.

[The New California Republic]

you've been given an answer. it is not my fault that the UK's various levels of corruption (petty nobles running everything through backdoor comms and gentleman's agreements vs lying media) have crossed streams.

Don't cross the streams, it will bring about a giant version of Gary Lineker.

I was hoping it'd open a gateway to get King Arthur back, as he is supposed to return soon.

[The Blaatschapen]

Don't cross the streams, it will bring about a giant version of Gary Lineker.

I was hoping it'd open a gateway to get King Arthur back, as he is supposed to return soon.

He has already returned, but Home Office denied him entry.

[Souseiseki]

thinking about what someone else said elsewhere, a scottish referendum in 2010 might have resulted in a more comfortable win but unionists blocked it. by delaying it they probably allowed scottish independence sentiment to swell as a result of the cameron government and allow the issue to be intertwined with brexit. both of these factors make the unionist majority less likely to hold and provide a reasonable sounding reason to hold another much sooner than would have otherwise come. it could very well be counted as a massive self-own to neatly compliments the unionists long history of self-owning.

this is interesting because it bears a resemblance to the current situation. with support for scottish independence slowly rising, support for independence being strongest in the younger generations and brexit/coronavirus building support for independence while a no deal brexit / second wave still looms on the horizon there is an argument that time is in fact on nicola sturgeon's side. so despite sturgeon's rallying for a second referendum and johnson's steadfast refusal to ever grant one it could be the case that granting a second referendum soon in an attempt to actually kill scottish independence dead for a generation could be the best move. in the past few days we've seen a few conservative MPs suggest that granting another referendum if the SNP win the next election may be the best option and we've seen michael gove talk about voting franchise for this referendum that is supposedly not going to happen until 2050.

so idk, i'm thinking, maybe they will actually do it and hope they can pull the 55% down before things get even worse in the long term. though the fact that no's lead seemed to be sliced near the end of the first referendum campaign and ended up significantly closer than anticipated must give them cold feet about this. obviously the best option would have been to see the 45% and treat it as a serious warning sign instead of declaring total victory forever and using that as an excuse to shove wheelbarrels of manure down scotland's throat under the mantra of "well you voted to stay so!" but that's apparently politically undesirable so lol.

Holding an existential referendum (irreversible if the outcome is 'yes' but apparently eminently repeatable if the answer is 'no') during two concurrent national political crises seems pretty stupid. People are very likely to translate any malaise they feel into support for Scottish independence - this happened in the EU referendum during a time of relative stability in the country. Agreeing to a referendum before Brexit is completed and the country at least partially recovers seems especially silly... beyond that, allowing a second 'once-in-a-generation' after a few years means, even if the answer is the same, the SNP will keep on asking like clockwork and at some point the answer is going to be 'yes' for whatever reason.

Secessionist movements always have the rhetorical upper-hand anyway, since they deal in 'the future' whilst unionists have to try to defend 'the present' and all accompanying baggage, cf. pro-independence is 'positive' and 'hopeful' and anti-independence is 'negative' and 'dull' etc. For Westminster to give away its best hand (our already having had a referendum with a negative result a very short time ago) would be supremely self-defeating (but then again in Westminster that might make it a more attractive option lol.)

i admit that there is a chance there will be the SNP constantly asking for a referendum. and my answer to this has always been, curtly, just stop losing. the SNP cannot keep trying to force people into a referendum with polls and elections as a justification if they stop doing very well in polls and referendums. the whole "is it time for another referendum" thing is primarily a result of the absolutely abhorrent handling of brexit and the inability of the other parties to meaningfully combat the SNP. it is an entirely self-inflicted wound that there seems to be no real counter to other than "but salmond and sturgeon pinky-promised" which, even if unconditionally accepted, is not a real enough reason to bind the scottish people for x years.

i also totally disagree with the second part. i don't see any reason they couldn't focus a campaign around the future. the scottish referendum in part tried to do this with the vow and so on. it just so happened that the future ended up being really shitty. in retrospect, it was probably quite a disaster. they tried to sell some vision of scotland within the UK, which could not be delivered because of the UK, which served to further emphasize the problems that lead to the referendum in the first place. oops.

[Hirota]

That's not an answer. I asked:



It's not difficult, a yes or no should suffice.

you've been given an answer. it is not my fault that the UK's various levels of corruption (petty nobles running everything through backdoor comms and gentleman's agreements vs lying media) have crossed streams.

it's like the david cameron thing. whether or not he molested a dead pig is not the real story. the real story is that he is of such character that people are willing to believe he porked a pig without much encouragement.

Sure. It is however, entirely your fault that you will find any piece of dubious speculation credible when it's convenient. Chinese whispers is an dumb exceptionally weak source of evidence.

It would be as dumb as believing you were dropped on your head one too many times as a child by Silvio Berlusconi during one of his famous bunga bunga parties on the basis of a similar level of evidence - after all I've obviously got absolutely no reason to doubt your estranged third cousin on your mother's side who told their co-worker who tweeted it to my aunt's hairdresser when they said that, right?

[The New California Republic]

And the head of Ofqual has just resigned.

[Celritannia]

And the head of Ofqual has just resigned.

I wonder what the official statement will be.

[The New California Republic]

And the head of Ofqual has just resigned.

I wonder what the official statement will be.

"Lol bye. Your children can eat shit for all I care."

[Souseiseki]

rule britannia probably should be dropped because 1) it is a meh song that is only good 25% of the time 2) britain no longer rules the waves and its people have allowed themselves to be reduced to slaves, so it is now inaccurate

jerusalem however is fine

e: so is land of hope and glory. because while obviously england has lost its hope and glory, it is a very good song.

[The Huskar Social Union]

rule britannia probably should be dropped because 1) it is a meh song that is only good 25% of the time 2) britain no longer rules the waves and its people have allowed themselves to be reduced to slaves, so it is now inaccurate

jerusalem however is fine

y u hate britain