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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Crysuko
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Postby Crysuko » Sun Aug 16, 2020 7:56 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Regardless what you say though, it's the civil service that is the experienced backbone of the country. The UK cannot function without it, and time and time again, they are the ones that have to either inform the Minister something can't be done, or find ways to do it.
MPs maybe elected to represent the constituency, but it is the Civil Service that are the policy makers.
Remember, an MP is representing their constituency, but the Civil Service makes policy at the national level.

Governments come and go, but the Civil Service remains. Whether some are stuck in their ways or not (depends really so cannot generalise) they still have so much more benefits to give to policy making.

And yes, the Monarchy my be a hereditary position, but it is not a dangerous institution like it was in the past. a long reigning monarch who has seen problems time and again does have more experience than an amateur government, which is why her advice to the Government is necessary.

Whether you like it or not (and I honestly cannot believe you decided to make a whole argument based on one passing comment) the Monarch cand and sometimes does have more experience from a long reign than an inexperienced first time Prime Minister.
It's the same with the Civil Service. I respect the Civil Service a great deal.


So BoJo will remove most of the civil service ad replace them with political cronies in a month then ?

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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:04 am

Crysuko wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
So BoJo will remove most of the civil service ad replace them with political cronies in a month then ?

My little crony: corruption is magic


Someone needs to fund this.

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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:06 am

Novus America wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Regardless what you say though, it's the civil service that is the experienced backbone of the country. The UK cannot function without it, and time and time again, they are the ones that have to either inform the Minister something can't be done, or find ways to do it.
MPs maybe elected to represent the constituency, but it is the Civil Service that are the policy makers.
Remember, an MP is representing their constituency, but the Civil Service makes policy at the national level.

Governments come and go, but the Civil Service remains. Whether some are stuck in their ways or not (depends really so cannot generalise) they still have so much more benefits to give to policy making.

And yes, the Monarchy my be a hereditary position, but it is not a dangerous institution like it was in the past. a long reigning monarch who has seen problems time and again does have more experience than an amateur government, which is why her advice to the Government is necessary.

Whether you like it or not (and I honestly cannot believe you decided to make a whole argument based on one passing comment) the Monarch cand and sometimes does have more experience from a long reign than an inexperienced first time Prime Minister.
It's the same with the Civil Service. I respect the Civil Service a great deal.


Yes the monarch does have more experience in certain matters. But different matters. And experience does not necessarily make someone better. Experience can be good, but it is hardly the only thing we judge people on and you can have a lot of experience and still not be very good at something. And I never said the civil service is bad. Yes you need it too.

The point though is simply we have nothing to show Elizabeth would be good at exercising real power or good at deciding on matters she has never publicly decided. We have no idea what she would do or what what she stands for.


Again, still more experienced than this current government full of completely idiotic Tories that only care about themselves and their friends. This Tory Government is certainly not good at excising real power in any way.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:46 am

People losing their shit over Starmer writing for the Daily Mail and waffling about fascists and so on.

For context, 15% of Mail readers voted for Corbyn.

For further context, 15% of Mail readers is more than the entire readership of the Guardian.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:04 am

Will Gavin Williamson last the month in his job? I think he is not as essential to Boris Johnson as Dominic Cummings, so he may well be gone when they want to draw a line under the exams crisis.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:07 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Will Gavin Williamson last the month in his job? I think he is not as essential to Boris Johnson as Dominic Cummings, so he may well be gone when they want to draw a line under the exams crisis.


It would seem logical to allow students COVID related mitigating circumstances when applying to 6th Form or University.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:10 am

Celritannia wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Will Gavin Williamson last the month in his job? I think he is not as essential to Boris Johnson as Dominic Cummings, so he may well be gone when they want to draw a line under the exams crisis.


It would seem logical to allow students COVID related mitigating circumstances when applying to 6th Form or University.

From what I understand, sixth forms are showing latitude, but students still risk having (if the government messes around with GCSE grades as they did with A-levels) failing grades, and most jobs need a C or higher in English and Maths at GCSE level.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Will Gavin Williamson last the month in his job? I think he is not as essential to Boris Johnson as Dominic Cummings, so he may well be gone when they want to draw a line under the exams crisis.

It depends. If Johnson and the rest of the government dig their heels in and back the decision, his job may be safe. If they reverse it, I think it may be at risk.

As you say, he's not as essential as Cummings, and I can't help but note that -- unlike with Cummings' "eye test" -- Conservative ministers don't seem to have been mobilised to express their support for him.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:18 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
It would seem logical to allow students COVID related mitigating circumstances when applying to 6th Form or University.

From what I understand, sixth forms are showing latitude, but students still risk having (if the government messes around with GCSE grades as they did with A-levels) failing grades, and most jobs need a C or higher in English and Maths at GCSE level.

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Will Gavin Williamson last the month in his job? I think he is not as essential to Boris Johnson as Dominic Cummings, so he may well be gone when they want to draw a line under the exams crisis.

It depends. If Johnson and the rest of the government dig their heels in and back the decision, his job may be safe. If they reverse it, I think it may be at risk.

As you say, he's not as essential as Cummings, and I can't help but note that -- unlike with Cummings' "eye test" -- Conservative ministers don't seem to have been mobilised to express their support for him.


Apparently we can expect a government announcement on the subject later on today. It may be a u turn, in which case I agree he will be gone.
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:38 am

The Tory MP accused of rape will not return to the Commons in September, instead working from home until his bail date in November.

So, no chance of him being able to hide unless Conservative HQ bans every former minister in his 50s from attending parliament.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:44 am

Philjia wrote:The Tory MP accused of rape will not return to the Commons in September, instead working from home until his bail date in November.

So, no chance of him being able to hide unless Conservative HQ bans every former minister in his 50s from attending parliament.


Aren't quite a lot of MPs still working from home anyway for social distancing? Probably still going to be the case in September.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:49 am

Philjia wrote:The Tory MP accused of rape will not return to the Commons in September, instead working from home until his bail date in November.

So, no chance of him being able to hide unless Conservative HQ bans every former minister in his 50s from attending parliament.

There will be journalists sat with lists of male Tory MPs watching the return, ticking off the names of everyone who attends, and whoever is missing (since there may be more than one male Tory MP missing) better have an airtight alibi if they don't want to fall under suspicion.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:51 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Philjia wrote:The Tory MP accused of rape will not return to the Commons in September, instead working from home until his bail date in November.

So, no chance of him being able to hide unless Conservative HQ bans every former minister in his 50s from attending parliament.


Aren't quite a lot of MPs still working from home anyway for social distancing? Probably still going to be the case in September.

Actually that might further complicate the plan I just mentioned, as absences will likely be a lot higher in light of social distancing.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:16 am

The New California Republic wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Aren't quite a lot of MPs still working from home anyway for social distancing? Probably still going to be the case in September.

Actually that might further complicate the plan I just mentioned, as absences will likely be a lot higher in light of social distancing.

Tories forming a rota of who has to take a day off to cover for the accused.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:13 am

Image


Figures.

And without an entrenched MRM to highlight this issue, it'll pass by without many people knowing.

Also, notably, the reduction of grades has his the disadvantaged across the board.

Poor, minority, and so on, and that is all being acknowledged. However, when it comes to boys, there is silence, because to speak of them in the same breath as a disadvantaged group would disrupt peoples preconceptions. And yet this is a consistent pattern on issues that impact all disadvantaged groups. When we see a "Target all disadvantaged" thing, it's men, not women, who face the consequences. That should tell you something.
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Postby Juristonia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:46 am

It tells me that you're still a one trick pony, but considering two reddit posts with the same questionable image are all I can find about this, and there's nothing on any of the school's pages either, not really much else.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:13 am

And a massive u-turn from the government.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:15 am

Fartsniffage wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
So BoJo will remove most of the civil service ad replace them with political cronies in a month then ?


Nah, civil servants are employed by the Crown, not Parliament, to prevent exactly that sort of thing.



So BoJo will advise the crown to dismiss h the civil service ?
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:16 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:And a massive u-turn from the government.


This U-Turn?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 73981.html

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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:16 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Nah, civil servants are employed by the Crown, not Parliament, to prevent exactly that sort of thing.



So BoJo will advise the crown to dismiss h the civil service ?


The Civil Service is so integral to the British Government now that it would be impossible to remove.

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Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:18 am

Celritannia wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:And a massive u-turn from the government.


This U-Turn?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 73981.html

This has also been ballsed up by not including BTEC students.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:38 am

How didn't they pre-empt all this farce with the grades by seeing what happened in Scotland prior and acting accordingly? It gave them adequate warning that deciding grades by an algorithm was going to lead to serious discontent.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Crysuko
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crysuko » Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:42 am

The New California Republic wrote:How didn't they pre-empt all this farce with the grades by seeing what happened in Scotland prior and acting accordingly? It gave them adequate warning that deciding grades by an algorithm was going to lead to serious discontent.

tories are extremely pig headed when it comes to this kind of thing, and will only learn with the benefit of a slegehammer wielded by andre the giant
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:01 am

The New California Republic wrote:How didn't they pre-empt all this farce with the grades by seeing what happened in Scotland prior and acting accordingly? It gave them adequate warning that deciding grades by an algorithm was going to lead to serious discontent.


Probably the classic situation where someone at the top is demanding the final decision on everything, but fails to make decisions quickly enough, so people are left floundering.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:10 am

Celritannia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:

So BoJo will advise the crown to dismiss h the civil service ?


The Civil Service is so integral to the British Government now that it would be impossible to remove.


Are you challenging BoJo ?
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:10 am

Celritannia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:

So BoJo will advise the crown to dismiss h the civil service ?


The Civil Service is so integral to the British Government now that it would be impossible to remove.

Never underestimate the stunning incompetence of Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Wiffwaff Johnson
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