UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[The New California Republic]

JC is a Tory? That's news to me...

Me too, actually. I think I'd be really ashamed if the leader of my party and many of its most prominent members were frothing anti-Semites.

Thankfully this isn't an issue in my camp.

Though I suppose recognising antisemitism would require you to have some empathy, which I do not expect much from Labour.

Strange how you are phrasing that almost as if I am a Labour member or supporter.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Which former Tory leader are you talking about?

A certain one by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.

I absolutely love it when leftists shit on the west for LGBTQ persecution and then support Islamic terror groups that would kill sexual minorities.

[-Ra-]

Me too, actually. I think I'd be really ashamed if the leader of my party and many of its most prominent members were frothing anti-Semites.

Thankfully this isn't an issue in my camp.

Though I suppose recognising antisemitism would require you to have some empathy, which I do not expect much from Labour.

Strange how you are phrasing that almost as if I am a Labour member or supporter.

I never said you supported any political party, actually.

I just pointed out that a lot of Labourites and most of the Corbynite establishment was virulently antisemitic.

Though I suppose the left just like making everything about them.

[Ifreann]

Which former Tory leader are you talking about?

A certain one by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.

Jeremy Corbyn was never the leader of the Tory party. I asked which former Tory leader you were talking about. I'll quote your post again to clarify.

One side's former leader actively expressed support for terrorists and anti-Semitic nutters,

We all understand that you are here referring to Jeremy Corbyn.

the other didn't.

Here you must be referring to the other side's former leader, which is to say some former Tory leader. Can you tell us which one? And while you're explaining yourself, could you maybe explain why you are talking about former party leaders? I understand that you must be very attached to all your well-worn attacks on Corbyn, but surely you understand that they are no longer particularly relevant.

[The New California Republic]

Strange how you are phrasing that almost as if I am a Labour member or supporter.

I never said you supported any political party, actually.

I just pointed out that a lot of Labourites and most of the Corbynite establishment was virulently antisemitic.

Though I suppose the left just like making everything about them.

Not quite sure how, but alright.

[Novus America]

Me too, actually. I think I'd be really ashamed if the leader of my party and many of its most prominent members were frothing anti-Semites.

Thankfully this isn't an issue in my camp.

Though I suppose recognising antisemitism would require you to have some empathy, which I do not expect much from Labour.

Strange how you are phrasing that almost as if I am a Labour member or supporter.

If you are a member of any party and try to play the “my party good, your party bad game” you will be trying to defend the indefensible. The only argument you can make is the lesser evil one in partisan politics.

Cow shit is probably less disgusting than cat shit, but you are still eating shit.

[-Ra-]

A certain one by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.

Jeremy Corbyn was never the leader of the Tory party. I asked which former Tory leader you were talking about. I'll quote your post again to clarify.

I apologise, I though you were making a quip against the Tories and calling a Tory leader antisemitic. I understand what you are trying to say now.

Here you must be referring to the other side's former leader, which is to say some former Tory leader. Can you tell us which one? And while you're explaining yourself, could you maybe explain why you are talking about former party leaders? I understand that you must be very attached to all your well-worn attacks on Corbyn, but surely you understand that they are no longer particularly relevant.

Despite their many flaws, Cameron, May and Boris never publicly expressed support for terrorist organisations like Hamas, Hezbollah or the IRA, and certainly never referred to any of these people as their friends. Corbyn was willing to make common cause with groups of people who advocate for the mass murder of Jews, and he only apologised for it when wind of it blew back in his face. Corbyn allowed leftist anti-Semitism to fester in his party and refused to recognise the problem/.

This isn't a political issue. For five years, Labour had a leader who was antisemetic, a terrorist sympathiser, and an outright monster.

[Vassenor]

Strange how you are phrasing that almost as if I am a Labour member or supporter.

I never said you supported any political party, actually.

I just pointed out that a lot of Labourites and most of the Corbynite establishment was virulently antisemitic.

Though I suppose the left just like making everything about them.

Curiously you brought it up in response to accusations of cronyism on the part of Boris Johnson. Almost as though you're desperately trying to deflect attention away from said criticism.

[Novus America]

I never said you supported any political party, actually.

I just pointed out that a lot of Labourites and most of the Corbynite establishment was virulently antisemitic.

Though I suppose the left just like making everything about them.

Curiously you brought it up in response to accusations of cronyism on the part of Boris Johnson. Almost as though you're desperately trying to deflect attention away from said criticism.

Yes, I think Corbyn has some atrocious political stances and will not defend him.
But Corbyn being atrocious on foreign policy and his stance towards Hezbollah and the IRA (or at least past stances as he tried to walk those back somewhat but if you believe that genuine or him just lying to save his failing PM bids is another matter) does not in anyway defend Boris against accusations of giving peerages to his family and political donors.

What Corbyn did (and he is all but irrelevant now) does not in any way defend Boris here.

Whataboutism is not a defense (or defence), it is an admission of guilt.

[Ifreann]

Jeremy Corbyn was never the leader of the Tory party. I asked which former Tory leader you were talking about. I'll quote your post again to clarify.

I apologise, I though you were making a quip against the Tories and calling a Tory leader antisemitic. I understand what you are trying to say now.

Here you must be referring to the other side's former leader, which is to say some former Tory leader. Can you tell us which one? And while you're explaining yourself, could you maybe explain why you are talking about former party leaders? I understand that you must be very attached to all your well-worn attacks on Corbyn, but surely you understand that they are no longer particularly relevant.

Despite their many flaws, Cameron, May and Boris never publicly expressed support for terrorist organisations like Hamas, Hezbollah or the IRA, and certainly never referred to any of these people as their friends. Corbyn was willing to make common cause with groups of people who advocate for the mass murder of Jews, and he only apologised for it when wind of it blew back in his face. Corbyn allowed leftist anti-Semitism to fester in his party and refused to recognise the problem/.

This isn't a political issue. For five years, Labour had a leader who was antisemetic, a terrorist sympathiser, and an outright monster.

And why are you talking about him? He's not the party leader any more. He's not relevant to the conversation at hand, corruption in who gets into the House of Lords, in the slightest. You brought him up seemingly just to distract from criticism of Johnson. Either that or you're just obsessed with the man.

[Novus America]

I apologise, I though you were making a quip against the Tories and calling a Tory leader antisemitic. I understand what you are trying to say now.


Despite their many flaws, Cameron, May and Boris never publicly expressed support for terrorist organisations like Hamas, Hezbollah or the IRA, and certainly never referred to any of these people as their friends. Corbyn was willing to make common cause with groups of people who advocate for the mass murder of Jews, and he only apologised for it when wind of it blew back in his face. Corbyn allowed leftist anti-Semitism to fester in his party and refused to recognise the problem/.

This isn't a political issue. For five years, Labour had a leader who was antisemetic, a terrorist sympathiser, and an outright monster.

And why are you talking about him? He's not the party leader any more. He's not relevant to the conversation at hand, corruption in who gets into the House of Lords, in the slightest. You brought him up seemingly just to distract from criticism of Johnson. Either that or you're just obsessed with the man.

We actually 100% agree on something. Truly 2020 must be the apocalypse

[Vassenor]

I apologise, I though you were making a quip against the Tories and calling a Tory leader antisemitic. I understand what you are trying to say now.


Despite their many flaws, Cameron, May and Boris never publicly expressed support for terrorist organisations like Hamas, Hezbollah or the IRA, and certainly never referred to any of these people as their friends. Corbyn was willing to make common cause with groups of people who advocate for the mass murder of Jews, and he only apologised for it when wind of it blew back in his face. Corbyn allowed leftist anti-Semitism to fester in his party and refused to recognise the problem/.

This isn't a political issue. For five years, Labour had a leader who was antisemetic, a terrorist sympathiser, and an outright monster.

And why are you talking about him? He's not the party leader any more. He's not relevant to the conversation at hand, corruption in who gets into the House of Lords, in the slightest. You brought him up seemingly just to distract from criticism of Johnson. Either that or you're just obsessed with the man.

Jam is a hell of a drug.

[-Ra-]

And why are you talking about him? He's not the party leader any more. He's not relevant to the conversation at hand, corruption in who gets into the House of Lords, in the slightest. You brought him up seemingly just to distract from criticism of Johnson. Either that or you're just obsessed with the man.

"Why are you bringing up criticism of my political party!!!!"

The truth is that, although Corbyn is not leader, many of the people whom he enabled or who enabled him remain highly influential and respected members of the Labour Party.

I brought it up because Vassenor had the balls to bring up "both sides." Although Boris has done some unscrupulous crap, he has never outright supported or even sympathised with terrorist groups. My point is that both sides aren't equal. Labour is demonstrably worse.

Funny that many of the lords scandals, including the whole ermine ordeal, occurred during Labour governments.

[Ifreann]

And why are you talking about him? He's not the party leader any more. He's not relevant to the conversation at hand, corruption in who gets into the House of Lords, in the slightest. You brought him up seemingly just to distract from criticism of Johnson. Either that or you're just obsessed with the man.

"Why are you bringing up criticism of my political party!!!!"

They're not my political party at all, and you're not criticising the Labour Party. You're repeating the same old attacks on Jeremy Corbyn that we've all heard a thousand times before.

The truth is that, although Corbyn is not leader, many of the people whom he enabled or who enabled him remain highly influential and respected members of the Labour Party.

I brought it up because Vassenor had the balls to bring up "both sides." Although Boris has done some unscrupulous crap, he has never outright supported or even sympathised with terrorist groups. My point is that both sides aren't equal. Labour is demonstrably worse.

You have the order of events exactly backwards.
Vassenor's post, 13 Aug 2020, 14:18.

I like how you are mentioning a decade-old political scandal involving the Labour party and using it to somehow indicate that the House of Lords is bad.

The majority of Lords earn their position through merit, that is to say exceptional service to their country typically in the civil service.

I like how you're purposefully ignoring the number of Life Peers who essentially brought their way into the House.

Boris Johnson 'planning second peerages list to reward donors in autumn'

Boris Johnson sparks 'cronyism' row after awarding peerages to senior party donors and his own brother

Boris Johnson awards peerages to Tory donors and Brexit supporters

Cabinet Office urged to investigate fresh Tory ‘cash for honours’ scandal

Your reply, 13 Aug 2020, 14:33.

I like how you're purposefully ignoring the number of Life Peers who essentially brought their way into the House.

Boris Johnson 'planning second peerages list to reward donors in autumn'

Boris Johnson sparks 'cronyism' row after awarding peerages to senior party donors and his own brother

Boris Johnson awards peerages to Tory donors and Brexit supporters

Cabinet Office urged to investigate fresh Tory ‘cash for honours’ scandal

PMs award people who serve them admirably peerage all the time. This isn't at all new.

I'm sure that if Jeremy "our friends at Hamas, our friends at Hezbollah" Corbyn were in power, he would afford Lords seats to all of his leftist cronies and IRA terrorists or whoever.

Do I need to explain the linear nature of time to you?

Funny that many of the lords scandals, including the whole ermine ordeal, occurred during Labour governments.

One might begin to wonder if the problem is the House of Lords itself.

[Vassenor]

Especially when those criticisms don't -really- mesh with reality.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

For many of us, Brexit is a nationalist project (and a primarily English nationalist project at that) premised on some outdated fantasy of being able to reassert full national sovereignty in an already globalised world, occasionally gussied up with indistinct claims about 'free trade' and 'the Commonwealth' as window dressing to keep the increasingly marginalised internationalist free trade wing of the Conservative party on board.

Leave was voted for by English nationalists. The name "Brexit" for Leave is incorrect, and the media that has popularised that word hates Englishness and will try to pretend it just doesn't exist so it will go away. This article sort of goes there but in the end veers off into a complete lack of understanding of Englishness (Crawley has above-average British identification, btw, so), but considering how naff opendemocracy can get I'll give it a pass for its good understanding of the coalition at the start.

This nationalist project was not the project of the people talking about "free trade" and "the Commonwealth". Those people saw their Brexit as a globalist project (which it is) and genuinely believe in "free trade" and "the Commonwealth". There is no "increasingly marginalised internationalist free trade wing" - that wing isn't increasingly marginalised and it's not even a wing, it's the entire party. The other day I tried to find a single Tory protectionist. There weren't any.

The Conservatives aren't English. That party hates Englishness.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Did the Tories not realise, that criticising the Scottish government for downgrading the grades teacher's predicted, might rebound on them in England?

[Agarntrop]

Why do you have to put a hashtag on an NSG post?

Comes across as really fucking obnoxious you know.

How I choose to call out blatant bothsiderism is my own business.

Ya use a hastag for everything tho.

Makes me think you have a tumblr account or something.

[Fartsniffage]

How I choose to call out blatant bothsiderism is my own business.

Ya use a hastag for everything tho.

Makes me think you have a tumblr account or something.

You see a hashtag and think tumblr and not twitter? Makes me think you have a tumblr account...

[Agarntrop]

Ya use a hastag for everything tho.

Makes me think you have a tumblr account or something.

You see a hashtag and think tumblr and not twitter? Makes me think you have a tumblr account...

Or that.

But Vass strikes me as the type to use tumblr

[Vassenor]

You see a hashtag and think tumblr and not twitter? Makes me think you have a tumblr account...

Or that.

But Vass strikes me as the type to use tumblr

[North American Imperial State]

Did the Tories not realise, that criticising the Scottish government for downgrading the grades teacher's predicted, might rebound on them in England?

Of course not, they don't do forward thinking or planning.

[The New California Republic]

Did the Tories not realise, that criticising the Scottish government for downgrading the grades teacher's predicted, might rebound on them in England?

They might have just forgot that the A-level results were imminent because none of the Tories doing the criticising, whoever they were, have kids of that age. If they had, they'd be acutely aware that the results were on the way.

[-Ra-]

One might begin to wonder if the problem is the House of Lords itself.

One might begin to wonder if the problem is repeated Labour mismanagement and bad Labour actors who wretch about corruption constantly but are among the most corrupt tossers in the country.

[Dumb Ideologies]

How I choose to call out blatant bothsiderism is my own business.

Ya use a hastag for everything tho.

Makes me think you have a tumblr account or something.

Trashtags tend towards being a tool for lazy bandwagoners who are unable to or can't be bothered to make their own argument, those who like things reduced to a nice simple slogan they can chant to associate themselves with things that they think sound nice but that they don't really understand.

Frequent use is extremely dangerous for your IQ. We must use them only sarcastically, crossing our fingers and toes and thoroughly clenching our buttocks so that the stupid can't creep in.