UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Vassenor]

You don't give a fuck about "protecting fishermen and the small communities that rely on their produce", though, do you? You praise deindustrialisation without caring for what that tore out of England.

I do give a fuck about protecting fisherman and small communities because I come from a small community with many disgruntled fishermen. Not all of us are inner city high street urban dwellers. The EU's policies deliberately help inner city liberal elite at the expense of rural folk. The EU rolled over the rural areas of this country like a fucking plague, and the people of this country wanted fuck all to do with Brussels and their policies.

[citation needed]

If anything the EU has given far more back to the rural and deprived areas of this country than our own government has. Or do you not care about what happens in Cornwall or Wales as long as SOVEREIGNTY?

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

You don't give a fuck about "protecting fishermen and the small communities that rely on their produce", though, do you? You praise deindustrialisation without caring for what that tore out of England.

I do give a fuck about protecting fisherman and small communities because I come from a small community with many disgruntled fishermen. Not all of us are inner city high street urban dwellers. The EU's policies deliberately help inner city liberal elite at the expense of rural folk. The EU rolled over the rural areas of this country like a fucking plague, and the people of this country wanted fuck all to do with Brussels and their policies.

You realise of course, that by all indications, those very same rural areas of the country you and I both live in, will not receive the same level of funding that they were getting before Brexit?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I can't wait for the Peking run reactors built on tofu dregs to explode and turn most of the Scottish border uninhabitable.
/SARCASM
All in the name of "Global Britain" of course.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Brexit hasn't been democratic.

FACT: When WE voted to Leave, we voted for reindustrialisation, an end to ridiculous immigration policies ("b-but points system..." lol no), and protectionism. Not this "Global Britain" free trade bullshit.

It's almost like people voted for Brexit for different reasons...

I voted for Brexit because I wanted British people to make decisions about the British economy and British immigration. I also voted for it because I wanted to see this country become a global power.

Almost nobody voted for Brexit for your "different reasons", "...". FACT. There is no such thing as a "British [person]" outside of the elite, WW2 fetishists, and Londoners.

[-Ra-]

The fact that there was no reaction when "PRC is building nuclear reactors on British soil" came up is telling enough. Anybody remotely in the know would be utterly appalled at the prospect of Peking being permitted to run British reactors but apparently no.

Who said I supported this either? Fuck the Chinese government and fuck the communists.

[citation needed]

Why do you think 52% of voters voted to leave? Do you think they did it just because they thought it would be funny?

Thank goodness Boris is fighting for those voters and pushing the EU to accept Britain as an equal, as is its right.

If anything the EU has given far more back to the rural and deprived areas of this country than our own government has.

False

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

The fact that there was no reaction when "PRC is building nuclear reactors on British soil" came up is telling enough. Anybody remotely in the know would be utterly appalled at the prospect of Peking being permitted to run British reactors but apparently no.

Who said I supported this either? Fuck the Chinese government and fuck the communists.

Britain is choosing between America and PRC. And at the moment with the building of Hinkley it looks like it's choosing PRC for Chernobyls. This is directly as a result of "Global Britain" memes.

[Ifreann]

Because apparently an industry that accounts for less than 0.1% of our GDP and employs less than 12,000 people is the cornerstone of our democracy.

The decline of the UK fishing industry was caused by... let's see... the Common Fisheries Policy.

It's not only about protecting fishermen and the small communities that rely on their produce, it's about ensuring that foreign countries can't dictate how much UK fishermen can fish and that foreign countries aren't allowed to leech on our waters, which are among the largest in Europe.

By refusing to participate in a common fisheries policy you're creating a situation where the EU has more control over how much fishing you can do and you have less. Because the thing about fish is that they don't live in the sovereign waters of one nation, they live in the whole sea. If you won't join us in managing the stock of fish in the whole sea, then we'll do it without you, and you'll just have to live with the decisions we make.

[Vassenor]

The fact that there was no reaction when "PRC is building nuclear reactors on British soil" came up is telling enough. Anybody remotely in the know would be utterly appalled at the prospect of Peking being permitted to run British reactors but apparently no.

Who said I supported this either? Fuck the Chinese government and fuck the communists.

[citation needed]

Why do you think 52% of voters voted to leave? Do you think they did it just because they thought it would be funny?

Thank goodness Boris is fighting for those voters and pushing the EU to accept Britain as an equal, as is its right.

If anything the EU has given far more back to the rural and deprived areas of this country than our own government has.

False

So why did they vote leave then? Because everything I've seen so far says it was because immigration and precious little else.

And why are so many things carrying "Funded by EU Regional Development Fund" signs then?

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Brexit has resulted in the UK being more susceptible to U.S. diplomatic pressure. This is good as it means BoJo is less likely to kowtow to China and more likely to align Britain's trade and foreign policy with the United States, resulting in a united, anti-CCP front and greater support for Hong Kong and Taiwan, particularly with respect to genuine refugees fleeing political persecution in HK.

Speaking of migrants and refugees...

Boris Johnson considers law change amid rising migrant crossings

The UK needs to consider changes to asylum laws to deter migrants from crossing the English Channel, Boris Johnson has said.

The prime minister said it was currently "very, very difficult" to legally return people who arrive in the UK from France using small boats.

More than 4,000 people have successfully crossed the English Channel this way so far this year.

Immigration Minister Chris Philp is travelling to Paris for talks later.

He will be accompanied by the UK's newly appointed Clandestine Channel Threat Commander Dan O'Mahoney, to discuss how to reduce the number of migrant crossings.

The UK government has said it wants to work with the French authorities to make the route "unviable".

Speaking ahead of the meeting, the UK's former national security adviser Lord Ricketts said the UK may need to pay for increased enforcement along the French coast.

"The French do have 300km of coastline facing the UK which is quite hard to police and I think a lot of the money they are asking for is to reinforce mobile patrols up and down those beaches to stop people even getting into these boats," he said.

On Monday, Mr Johnson pledged to work with the French authorities to discourage people from making the "dangerous" journey across the channel.

But he added the UK also needed to look at "the panoply of laws that an illegal immigrant has at his or her disposal that allow them to stay here".
'Range of options'

The Ministry of Defence said on Monday it had sent an RAF Atlas transport aircraft to help Border Force spot small boats trying to cross the Channel.

The Home Office had asked defence chiefs for help to deal with migrants making the crossing.

Since Thursday, more than 600 people have been intercepted on the route.

Downing Street said Border Force was looking at a "range of options," including new measures, to stop boats entering British waters.
EU Laws

The UK is currently following EU asylum law during its 11-month post-Brexit transition period following its departure from the bloc in January.

This includes the so-called Dublin regulation, which states that a person's asylum claim can be transferred to the first member state they entered.

The PM's spokesman said the UK wanted to replace the "inflexible and rigid" regulation with a new agreement on returns after December.

He added that the current Dublin rules, which put a time limit on transfers, could be "abused by both migrants and their lawyers to frustrate the returns of those who have no right to be here".

In a letter to Home Secretary Priti Patel on Monday, 23 Tory MPs and two peers said the UK should refuse to sign up to a "similar agreement" to Dublin after December.

The group said ministers should do "whatever it takes" to deal with the problem, saying many of their constituents were angry that migrants had been put up in "expensive hotels" and given "immediate access" to financial support.

Dover MP Nathalie Elphicke, who was not one of the signatories, said Tuesday's talks were welcome but engagement at a higher level was needed to enable boats to be safely turned around and returned to France.

"There is no reason we can't come to an agreement with France on returns," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "It's really important we work with the French on this issue as it's a joint issue."

Ms Patel, who met her opposite number Gérald Darmanin last month, has said the UK is committed to "shutting down" the route and dismantling the criminal gangs facilitating the illegal crossings.

Speaking during a visit to Dover on Monday, she said the current situation was "totally unacceptable" and the UK and France need to work together to address what was a "shared challenge".

The French government says it has deployed extra resources to detect and intercept boats before they set out, leading to a ten-fold increase in the number of crossings being prevented.

Intelligence co-operation with the UK has been stepped up while plans to strengthen control of the main crossing points are being finalised, the country's interior ministry added.

Since the demolition of the infamous 'Jungle' nearly four years ago, French authorities have been successful in stopping other large-scale camps from forming.

But migrants do still arrive in Calais; they are just more scattered.

Greater security measures - including a wall built along the motorway with UK funding - have made it more difficult for migrants to stow away on lorries.

But that's led the people smugglers to increasingly turn to using the equally risky method of small boats.

The UK and France have worked closely on this for close to two decades.

The Treaty of Le Touquet which effectively 'moved' the UK border to Calais (and the French border to Dover) to allow checks to happen before crossings, was signed in 2003.

But they can't change geography.

Calais remains a magnet because it is only 20 miles from the UK - on a clear day in Dover, you can see the headlights of French traffic on the other side of the sea.

No amount of planes, walls or Navy deployments can alter that.

Quite apart from the humanitarian issue here, there is added political pressure for the UK government.

David Cameron was pretty roundly criticised for suggesting in 2016 that Brexit would mean the French would pull out of bilateral agreements and we'd see "Jungles" popping up on the South coast of England.

There's certainly no indication of that, but there's no doubt that the images of dinghies landing on Kent's beaches will be a difficult one for a government that has set huge store by its promise to 'take back control' of immigration.

The Johnson administration is adopting exactly the right approach. Shut down the illegal sea crossings, save countless lives, curb the spread of coronavirus via illegal and unofficial channels, and deport legitimate asylum seekers back to the first safe country they are able to set foot in. Britain is taking back control of its borders once and for all.

[-Ra-]

Who said I supported this either? Fuck the Chinese government and fuck the communists.

Britain is choosing between America and PRC. And at the moment with the building of Hinkley it looks like it's choosing PRC for Chernobyls.

If we had to choose we should choose the latter. One of my biggest criticisms of Boris despite my support for him is that he's not standing up to the Chinese Communists as hard as he should. Banning Huawei was a step in the right direction, but fuck does the PRC have too much influence on our economy.

This is directly as a result of "Global Britain" memes.

False. Only a stronger, global Britain allied with the US can stand against China. The EU has done fuck all to curb China's influence.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

I do give a fuck about protecting fisherman and small communities

No you don't, you've already shown that.

I come from a small community with many disgruntled fishermen.

Yes, there's always one who moves to the big city and adopts the accompanying views. There's no zealot like the convert.

Not all of us are inner city high street urban dwellers.

You are now, though, aren't you?

The EU's policies deliberately help inner city liberal elite at the expense of rural folk. The EU rolled over the rural areas of this country like a fucking plague

Yes, the conflict between Global Britain types and Remainers is a civil war.

and the people of this country wanted fuck all to do with Brussels and their policies.

Not for the same reasons as you.

Also never have praised deindustrialisation whatever that means.

LOL

[Vassenor]

Brexit has resulted in the UK being more susceptible to U.S. diplomatic pressure. This is good as it means BoJo is less likely to kowtow to China and more likely to align Britain's trade and foreign policy with the United States, resulting in a united, anti-CCP front and greater support for Hong Kong and Taiwan, particularly with respect to genuine refugees fleeing political persecution in HK.

Speaking of migrants and refugees...

Boris Johnson considers law change amid rising migrant crossings

The UK needs to consider changes to asylum laws to deter migrants from crossing the English Channel, Boris Johnson has said.

The prime minister said it was currently "very, very difficult" to legally return people who arrive in the UK from France using small boats.

More than 4,000 people have successfully crossed the English Channel this way so far this year.

Immigration Minister Chris Philp is travelling to Paris for talks later.

He will be accompanied by the UK's newly appointed Clandestine Channel Threat Commander Dan O'Mahoney, to discuss how to reduce the number of migrant crossings.

The UK government has said it wants to work with the French authorities to make the route "unviable".

Speaking ahead of the meeting, the UK's former national security adviser Lord Ricketts said the UK may need to pay for increased enforcement along the French coast.

"The French do have 300km of coastline facing the UK which is quite hard to police and I think a lot of the money they are asking for is to reinforce mobile patrols up and down those beaches to stop people even getting into these boats," he said.

On Monday, Mr Johnson pledged to work with the French authorities to discourage people from making the "dangerous" journey across the channel.

But he added the UK also needed to look at "the panoply of laws that an illegal immigrant has at his or her disposal that allow them to stay here".
'Range of options'

The Ministry of Defence said on Monday it had sent an RAF Atlas transport aircraft to help Border Force spot small boats trying to cross the Channel.

The Home Office had asked defence chiefs for help to deal with migrants making the crossing.

Since Thursday, more than 600 people have been intercepted on the route.

Downing Street said Border Force was looking at a "range of options," including new measures, to stop boats entering British waters.
EU Laws

The UK is currently following EU asylum law during its 11-month post-Brexit transition period following its departure from the bloc in January.

This includes the so-called Dublin regulation, which states that a person's asylum claim can be transferred to the first member state they entered.

The PM's spokesman said the UK wanted to replace the "inflexible and rigid" regulation with a new agreement on returns after December.

He added that the current Dublin rules, which put a time limit on transfers, could be "abused by both migrants and their lawyers to frustrate the returns of those who have no right to be here".

In a letter to Home Secretary Priti Patel on Monday, 23 Tory MPs and two peers said the UK should refuse to sign up to a "similar agreement" to Dublin after December.

The group said ministers should do "whatever it takes" to deal with the problem, saying many of their constituents were angry that migrants had been put up in "expensive hotels" and given "immediate access" to financial support.

Dover MP Nathalie Elphicke, who was not one of the signatories, said Tuesday's talks were welcome but engagement at a higher level was needed to enable boats to be safely turned around and returned to France.

"There is no reason we can't come to an agreement with France on returns," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme. "It's really important we work with the French on this issue as it's a joint issue."

Ms Patel, who met her opposite number Gérald Darmanin last month, has said the UK is committed to "shutting down" the route and dismantling the criminal gangs facilitating the illegal crossings.

Speaking during a visit to Dover on Monday, she said the current situation was "totally unacceptable" and the UK and France need to work together to address what was a "shared challenge".

The French government says it has deployed extra resources to detect and intercept boats before they set out, leading to a ten-fold increase in the number of crossings being prevented.

Intelligence co-operation with the UK has been stepped up while plans to strengthen control of the main crossing points are being finalised, the country's interior ministry added.

Since the demolition of the infamous 'Jungle' nearly four years ago, French authorities have been successful in stopping other large-scale camps from forming.

But migrants do still arrive in Calais; they are just more scattered.

Greater security measures - including a wall built along the motorway with UK funding - have made it more difficult for migrants to stow away on lorries.

But that's led the people smugglers to increasingly turn to using the equally risky method of small boats.

The UK and France have worked closely on this for close to two decades.

The Treaty of Le Touquet which effectively 'moved' the UK border to Calais (and the French border to Dover) to allow checks to happen before crossings, was signed in 2003.

But they can't change geography.

Calais remains a magnet because it is only 20 miles from the UK - on a clear day in Dover, you can see the headlights of French traffic on the other side of the sea.

No amount of planes, walls or Navy deployments can alter that.

Quite apart from the humanitarian issue here, there is added political pressure for the UK government.

David Cameron was pretty roundly criticised for suggesting in 2016 that Brexit would mean the French would pull out of bilateral agreements and we'd see "Jungles" popping up on the South coast of England.

There's certainly no indication of that, but there's no doubt that the images of dinghies landing on Kent's beaches will be a difficult one for a government that has set huge store by its promise to 'take back control' of immigration.

The Johnson administration is adopting exactly the right approach. Shut down the illegal sea crossings, save countless lives, curb the spread of coronavirus via illegal and unofficial channels, and deport legitimate asylum seekers back to the first safe country they are able to set foot in. Britain is taking back control of its borders once and for all.

Actually it seems more like China is making inroads that were previously blocked when we were able to present a unified front with the EU.

Also oh hey the "FIRST SAFE COUNTRY" myth shows up again.

[-Ra-]

By refusing to participate in a common fisheries policy you're creating a situation where the EU has more control over how much fishing you can do and you have less. Because the thing about fish is that they don't live in the sovereign waters of one nation, they live in the whole sea. If you won't join us in managing the stock of fish in the whole sea, then we'll do it without you, and you'll just have to live with the decisions we make.

The UK controls over half of the EU's territorial fishing waters. If we wanted to cut them out we could easily do so and not worry about it. They are much more dependent on us, and that's why the EU bureaucrats were scrambling to save the CFP at all costs.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Why do you think 52% of voters voted to leave? Do you think they did it just because they thought it would be funny?

Thank goodness Boris is fighting for those voters and pushing the EU to accept Britain as an equal, as is its right.

Hasn't it already been explained to you how Boris isn't fighting for those voters?

[Vassenor]

By refusing to participate in a common fisheries policy you're creating a situation where the EU has more control over how much fishing you can do and you have less. Because the thing about fish is that they don't live in the sovereign waters of one nation, they live in the whole sea. If you won't join us in managing the stock of fish in the whole sea, then we'll do it without you, and you'll just have to live with the decisions we make.

The UK controls over half of the EU's territorial fishing waters. If we wanted to cut them out we could easily do so and not worry about it. They are much more dependent on us, and that's why the EU bureaucrats were scrambling to save the CFP at all costs.

So what was their actual negotiating position? As opposed to what the Daily Express wants you to think it is.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Cod War 4 with glorified gunboats and a pissed off America here we come.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

The Johnson administration is adopting exactly the right approach. Shut down the illegal sea crossings, save countless lives, curb the spread of coronavirus via illegal and unofficial channels, and deport legitimate asylum seekers back to the first safe country they are able to set foot in. Britain is taking back control of its borders once and for all.

they say, while wanting to let 3 million Hong Kongers in. NO THANKS!

[-Ra-]

Why do you think 52% of voters voted to leave? Do you think they did it just because they thought it would be funny?

Thank goodness Boris is fighting for those voters and pushing the EU to accept Britain as an equal, as is its right.

Hasn't it already been explained to you how Boris isn't fighting for those voters?

Wasn't it been explained to you that he is, with results?

So what was their actual negotiating position? As opposed to what the Daily Express wants you to think it is.

Who? The EU? The EU want the policies to stay the same because not having access to British waters would hurt them or whatever the fuck the EU wants. All this in spite of UK sovereignty. Boris has proposed zonal attachment, which the EU categorically didn't want at first but has come around to accepting.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Cod War 4 with glorified gunboats and a pissed off America here we come.

Bomb Iceland until we get the reparations for the Viking raids they owe us. Simple.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Hasn't it already been explained to you how Boris isn't fighting for those voters?

Wasn't it been explained to you that he is, with results?

Haven't I already explained to you that "Global Britain" isn't what those voters voted for?

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Cod War 4 with glorified gunboats and a pissed off America here we come.

Bomb Iceland until we get the reparations for the Viking raids they owe us. Simple.

And then Washington DC tells London to stop being a wanker and 'lo and behold London will immediately prostrate before DC's command.

[Vassenor]

Hasn't it already been explained to you how Boris isn't fighting for those voters?

Wasn't it been explained to you that he is, with results?

So what was their actual negotiating position? As opposed to what the Daily Express wants you to think it is.

Who? The EU? The EU want the policies to stay the same because not having access to British waters would hurt them or whatever the fuck the EU wants. All this in spite of UK sovereignty. Boris has proposed zonal attachment, which the EU categorically didn't want at first but has come around to accepting.

OK, now prove that. Don't just assert it.

[Munkcestrian RepubIic]

Bomb Iceland until we get the reparations for the Viking raids they owe us. Simple.

And then Washington DC tells London to stop being a wanker and 'lo and behold London will immediately prostrate before DC's command.

Hate them too

[The Reformed American Republic]

The type of things you Stalinists want to destroy.

I want pre-1066 English values to be restored.

Oh my bad then. I'll post with more detail later.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

If America has to park a carrier battle group in the middle of GIUK and deny sales of P-8's to MoD because Britain has decided to be an utter wanker over bloody fishes I will honestly laugh.