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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Souseiseki
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Posts: 19100
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:03 am

they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:17 am

Souseiseki wrote:they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???


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Nuroblav
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Postby Nuroblav » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:37 am

Souseiseki wrote:they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???

Some decent quotes here and there, but his views on the Holocaust are...confusing...
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:43 am

Souseiseki wrote:they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???


Why not Professor Stephen Hawking?

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:45 am

He caught flak for talking to Gerry Adams, but sometimes you need to shake some very dirty hands for peace. The issue is by no means resolved, but it's a damn sight better than before: bombs and revenge killings almost every day.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:04 am

The New California Republic wrote:He caught flak for talking to Gerry Adams, but sometimes you need to shake some very dirty hands for peace. The issue is by no means resolved, but it's a damn sight better than before: bombs and revenge killings almost every day.


everyone will be talking to gerry adams when we put him on the coins too. will fit it well with ghandi and washington.
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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:09 am

Fartsniffage wrote:Reddit has compiled a list of suspects. We need a poll change.

https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/ ... n_of_rape/



From that same thread - and accepting that this nothing more than vague speculation...

Twitter analysis:

Fox - tweeted Saturday daytime

Grayling - doesn't use Twitter

Hunt - usually active but account quiet since Friday

Javid - retweeted something yesterday

Francois - doesn't use Twitter

Hands - tweeted Saturday daytime

Loughton - active on twitter Saturday daytime

Selous - not active on twitter yesterday

Djangoly - doesn't use Twitter

Murrison - tweeted Saturday daytime

Cairns - not active yesterday

Ellwood - tweeted Saturday daytime

Harper - not active Saturday (but tweeted Sunday)

Penrose - doesn't use Twitter

Vara - not active Saturday [Arch annotation - has tweeted within the last 2 hours]

S Hammond - not active Saturday [Arch annotation - has tweeted within the last 20 hours]

Clark - doesn't tweet much

Hinds - doesn't tweet much

Halfon - active on twitter Saturday

Garnier - doesn't tweet much

Freeman - not active Saturday (but tweeted Sunday)

Jones - active on twitter Saturday


Jeremy Hunt is often quite active, but went 5 days without a tweet as recently as 24-29 July, so a lack of tweeting since Friday is not definitive.

Andrew Selous's sudden total silence raises more of an eyebrow, but is also hardly definitive under the circumstances (especially given the news noted earlier in the thread that Mark Francois's Facebook page has mysteriously vanished). It would, however, offer a particularly rich moment of irony if it proved to be Selous as he's chair of the 'All Party Parliamentary Group on Strengthening Couple Relationships', and a keen defender of what are often termed traditional family values.


I've seen a couple of people throw David Mundell into the mix, but - acknowledging that Mundell does have an ex-wife - this seems somewhat unlikely given that Mundell came out as gay in 2016 and the victim of the alleged assault is female.


Finally, the news story about the PM being lobbied to support Charlie Elphicke will not be helping Tory HQ's decision-making process.

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Ifreann
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:15 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Maccian wrote:What's the chance that after Queen Elizabeth II dies, that the monarchy will be abolished? I think it would only happen if there was a huge controversy surrounding a member or all of the royal family


Like Prince Andrew?

Apparently some Coldstream Guards had a pub fight with some of the Queen's footmen. I wonder what that was about.

Surely soldiers starting fights in pubs is just traditional. Don't need a reason.


Souseiseki wrote:they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:17 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:Reddit has compiled a list of suspects. We need a poll change.

https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/ ... n_of_rape/



From that same thread - and accepting that this nothing more than vague speculation...

Twitter analysis:

Fox - tweeted Saturday daytime

Grayling - doesn't use Twitter

Hunt - usually active but account quiet since Friday

Javid - retweeted something yesterday

Francois - doesn't use Twitter

Hands - tweeted Saturday daytime

Loughton - active on twitter Saturday daytime

Selous - not active on twitter yesterday

Djangoly - doesn't use Twitter

Murrison - tweeted Saturday daytime

Cairns - not active yesterday

Ellwood - tweeted Saturday daytime

Harper - not active Saturday (but tweeted Sunday)

Penrose - doesn't use Twitter

Vara - not active Saturday [Arch annotation - has tweeted within the last 2 hours]

S Hammond - not active Saturday [Arch annotation - has tweeted within the last 20 hours]

Clark - doesn't tweet much

Hinds - doesn't tweet much

Halfon - active on twitter Saturday

Garnier - doesn't tweet much

Freeman - not active Saturday (but tweeted Sunday)

Jones - active on twitter Saturday


Jeremy Hunt is often quite active, but went 5 days without a tweet as recently as 24-29 July, so a lack of tweeting since Friday is not definitive.

Andrew Selous's sudden total silence raises more of an eyebrow, but is also hardly definitive under the circumstances (especially given the news noted earlier in the thread that Mark Francois's Facebook page has mysteriously vanished). It would, however, offer a particularly rich moment of irony if it proved to be Selous as he's chair of the 'All Party Parliamentary Group on Strengthening Couple Relationships', and a keen defender of what are often termed traditional family values.


I've seen a couple of people throw David Mundell into the mix, but - acknowledging that Mundell does have an ex-wife - this seems somewhat unlikely given that Mundell came out as gay in 2016 and the victim of the alleged assault is female.


Finally, the news story about the PM being lobbied to support Charlie Elphicke will not be helping Tory HQ's decision-making process.

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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:21 am

Thermodolia wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote:

From that same thread - and accepting that this nothing more than vague speculation...



Jeremy Hunt is often quite active, but went 5 days without a tweet as recently as 24-29 July, so a lack of tweeting since Friday is not definitive.

Andrew Selous's sudden total silence raises more of an eyebrow, but is also hardly definitive under the circumstances (especially given the news noted earlier in the thread that Mark Francois's Facebook page has mysteriously vanished). It would, however, offer a particularly rich moment of irony if it proved to be Selous as he's chair of the 'All Party Parliamentary Group on Strengthening Couple Relationships', and a keen defender of what are often termed traditional family values.


I've seen a couple of people throw David Mundell into the mix, but - acknowledging that Mundell does have an ex-wife - this seems somewhat unlikely given that Mundell came out as gay in 2016 and the victim of the alleged assault is female.


Finally, the news story about the PM being lobbied to support Charlie Elphicke will not be helping Tory HQ's decision-making process.

Man Mundell has a horrible nickname, who thought that Fluffy was a good nickname


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An Alan Smithee Nation
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New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:24 am

Mark Francois' Wikipedia page seems to have been locked.
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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:24 am

Souseiseki wrote:they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???


For clarity it's coins, not bank notes.

I imagine the Mint will use next year's centenary of Gandhi's return to India and assumption of the leadership of the Indian National Congress as the anniversary used to justify the coin if it goes ahead.

However, there's no indication of what type of coin.

I had a small role in helping to design this just-released coin. When it was first proposed to the British Red Cross, it was supposed to be a £2 coin, though not necessarily one that would go into general circulation. In the year and a bit since my involvement ended, it became a £5 coin. These are solely commemorative, have no circulation, and are largely a profit-making venture for the Mint (though in the Red Cross case some of the proceeds are going to the BRC).

So I wouldn't rush to judgement just yet. If Gandhi appears on a 50p coin (as per the recent Rosalind Franklin issue) or a general circulation £2 coin, then clearly the Mint is trying to make a big statement about diversity. If, however, he turns up on a $5 coin (as per the recent Elton John issue), then it's largely tokenism for the sake of claiming to do something while making a bit of money on the side.

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:26 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Rewarding CEO's of tabloids with a membership in HoL is just about the dumbest thing ever tbh. Imqho rewarding tabloid chiefs with anything is basically treason.


Listen both of you, He is to be refereed to as The Right and Honorable Lord Lebedev. He is a peer now show him the proper respect and deference. Failure to do so will have you outed in the Evening Standard.

Guys.

He's Alexandr Lebedev, former president of the Union of Sovereign States and Republics. :p
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Postby The Alma Mater » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:27 am

The Archregimancy wrote: If Gandhi appears on a 50p coin (as per the recent Rosalind Franklin issue) or a general circulation £2 coin, then clearly the Mint is trying to make a big statement about diversity.


But what statement ? People are after all tearing down statues of Gandhi because of his (perceived as) racist statements on black people in South Africa.
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The Archregimancy
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:28 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Mark Francois' Wikipedia page seems to have been locked.


Going through the page revision history, it was locked on the 8th of July for 'persistent vandalism'. This link should show the vandalism in question on the left.

So the locking of his page would seem to have nothing to do with the allegations currently swirling around Westminster.

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Postby CoraSpia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:28 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Mark Francois' Wikipedia page seems to have been locked.

I seriously hope it's not him, I met him not long back and he didn't strike me as a bad person. That being said, I am someone who has chatted to nigel farage for hours in the past so you might not think my character judgement is very good.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:31 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote: If Gandhi appears on a 50p coin (as per the recent Rosalind Franklin issue) or a general circulation £2 coin, then clearly the Mint is trying to make a big statement about diversity.


But what statement ? People are after all tearing down statues of Gandhi because of his (perceived as) racist statements on black people in South Africa.

They weren't perceived as racist statements. They were racist statements.

For anyone wondering:

"I venture to point out that both the English and the Indians spring from a common stock, called the Indo-Aryan. … A general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw [K-Word]." (letter to the Natal parliament, 1893)

"to degrade us to the level of the raw [K-Word] whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness." (speech in 1896, Mumbai)

"must withdraw the [K-Word] from the Location. About this mixing of the [K-Word] with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen." (written in 1904)

"We believe also that the white race in South Africa should be the predominating race." (letter to the White League, 1903)
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The Archregimancy
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Postby The Archregimancy » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:47 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote: If Gandhi appears on a 50p coin (as per the recent Rosalind Franklin issue) or a general circulation £2 coin, then clearly the Mint is trying to make a big statement about diversity.


But what statement ? People are after all tearing down statues of Gandhi because of his (perceived as) racist statements on black people in South Africa.


A nebulous cuddly 'let's celebrate diversity' statement.

In terms of my earlier point about many (indeed most) Mint commemorative issues being primarily profit-driven, while Gandhi may seem a slightly eyebrow raising choice given many of his views (on a range of subjects, not just race) would be considered at best eccentric today, there are far more people in India than there are in the UK, and Indian newspapers are already giving this news positive coverage. So from the Mint's perspective you get a double barrel of diversity and vast untapped market for a commemorative issue.

And while this comes under the Bank of England's remit rather than the Royal Mint, it's not as if the individual on the Bank's £5 note had an entirely unblemished record when it came to race relations.

I offer no opinion on whether any of this is a good thing or a bad thing, but the Mint's advisory committee will more than likely be well aware of the historical issues involved and potential for controversy.
Last edited by The Archregimancy on Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:49 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
The Archregimancy wrote: If Gandhi appears on a 50p coin (as per the recent Rosalind Franklin issue) or a general circulation £2 coin, then clearly the Mint is trying to make a big statement about diversity.


But what statement ? People are after all tearing down statues of Gandhi because of his (perceived as) racist statements on black people in South Africa.


Statements I'm willing to bet a good chunk of the population didn't even know he'd made until this whole movement started. Such is the degree that our education system has a habit of excising problematic elements from history.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:52 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Mark Francois' Wikipedia page seems to have been locked.

Yes I saw that but the lock date doesn't fit. His Facebook disappearing raises far more eyebrows. At the very least I think it means that there was some content on there that was linked to the scandal somehow without him specifically being involved (maybe photos of the alleged victim during a social gathering or something...?). Of course the deletion could be entirely innocent and just badly timed, with the deletion being for another reason that is unrelated.
Last edited by The New California Republic on Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:39 am

The Archregimancy wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Mark Francois' Wikipedia page seems to have been locked.


Going through the page revision history, it was locked on the 8th of July for 'persistent vandalism'. This link should show the vandalism in question on the left.

So the locking of his page would seem to have nothing to do with the allegations currently swirling around Westminster.


My memory isn't what it was, but I'd swear all those minor page improvements done to the page over the last couple of days, weren't there when I looked at the page's revision history yesterday.
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:56 am

Souseiseki wrote:they want to put mahatma gandhi on the money

what???


He was a British citizen, also with Brexit, India is needed back in the fold.
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Postby Farnhamia » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:27 am

The Nihilistic view wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
Listen both of you, He is to be refereed to as The Right and Honorable Lord Lebedev. He is a peer now show him the proper respect and deference. Failure to do so will have you outed in the Evening Standard.


Don't you mean Lord Labia?

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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:38 am

The New California Republic wrote:He caught flak for talking to Gerry Adams, but sometimes you need to shake some very dirty hands for peace. The issue is by no means resolved, but it's a damn sight better than before: bombs and revenge killings almost every day.

Hume was utterly committed to bringing peace to NI, glad we had men like him, if we didnt this place would have been far worse off indeed.
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:10 pm

Opinium Polls, 31st July, as a general election result per Flavible Politics:

Poll Changes:
CON: 41% (-4)
LAB: 38% (+6)
L-DEM: 6% (-6)
SNP: 6% (+2)
GRN: 4% (+1)
PLAID: 1% (-)

Flavible Projection:
CON: 299 (-66)
LAB: 264 (+61)
SNP: 58 (+10)
L-DEM: 6 (-5)
PLAID: 4 (-)
GRN: 1 (-)

MAP
Last edited by The Huskar Social Union on Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Im Irish and live in Belfast Im a Leftwinger and im an Atheist

‘I never thought in terms of being a leader. I thought very simply in terms of helping people’ - John Hume

I like: The Red Agenda, video games, Not being a Wanker, Art, History, Blondes, Redheads, English Brunettes, Fortifications, Old Gregg, Tanks
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