UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Access to bikes on prescription.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53541866

That will be handy when few people can afford cars after Brexit.

In other good news Grant Shapps is going to have to go into quarantine when he comes back from Spain.

[Vassenor]

So the Birmingham Museums Trust is in financial difficulty.

Wonder what the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd has to say about the damage to the sector that the pandemic is doing and what to do about it.

[Dumb Ideologies]

So the Birmingham Museums Trust is in financial difficulty.

Wonder what the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd has to say about the damage to the sector that the pandemic is doing and what to do about it.

You're apparently expecting them to speak as one, but I've this peculiar inkling that there might be diverse opinions among a "crowd" united only by their disapproval of one set of actions in a particular time and place.

Big if true. Could be more evidence for that controversial "nuance hypothesis".

[The Huskar Social Union]

This was a strange video to come across

Apparently the Irish Freedom Party (far right party in the republic of ireland) had a stall in Belfast yesterday, that was then attacked by a bunch of leftwing republicans and destroyed. One group was Saoradh, who are the political wing of the the new IRA (reminder that not only are they responsible for attempting bombings but they also murdered Lyra McKee in Derry last year)

[Hirota]

So the Birmingham Museums Trust is in financial difficulty.

Wonder what the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd has to say about the damage to the sector that the pandemic is doing and what to do about it.

You're apparently expecting them to speak as one, but I've this peculiar inkling that there might be diverse opinions among a "crowd" united only by their disapproval of one set of actions in a particular time and place.

Big if true. Could be more evidence for that controversial "nuance hypothesis".

But it's so much easier to llazily lump people in as one arbitary demographic of Vassenors choosing. No need to apply any brain power to nuance and actual reasoning!

[Agarntrop]

This was a strange video to come across

Apparently the Irish Freedom Party (far right party in the republic of ireland) had a stall in Belfast yesterday, that was then attacked by a bunch of leftwing republicans and destroyed. One group was Saoradh, who are the political wing of the the new IRA (reminder that not only are they responsible for attempting bombings but they also murdered Lyra McKee in Derry last year)

Weren't they the guys responsible for the Omagh bomb?

[The Huskar Social Union]

This was a strange video to come across

Apparently the Irish Freedom Party (far right party in the republic of ireland) had a stall in Belfast yesterday, that was then attacked by a bunch of leftwing republicans and destroyed. One group was Saoradh, who are the political wing of the the new IRA (reminder that not only are they responsible for attempting bombings but they also murdered Lyra McKee in Derry last year)

Weren't they the guys responsible for the Omagh bomb?

Back when they were known as the Real IRA yes. They split from the Provisional IRA in 1997 after the PIRA signing a ceasefire. They merged with some other republican groups in 2012 and call themselves the "New IRA" now.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Weren't they the guys responsible for the Omagh bomb?

Back when they were known as the Real IRA yes. They split from the Provisional IRA in 1997 after the PIRA signing a ceasefire. They merged with some other republican groups in 2012 and call themselves the "New IRA" now.

So who were the Continuity IRA? I haven't imagined them have I?

[The Huskar Social Union]

Back when they were known as the Real IRA yes. They split from the Provisional IRA in 1997 after the PIRA signing a ceasefire. They merged with some other republican groups in 2012 and call themselves the "New IRA" now.

So who were the Continuity IRA? I haven't imagined them have I?

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

[The Blaatschapen]

So who were the Continuity IRA? I haven't imagined them have I?

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

And which of these IRAs did Monty Python base their People's Front of Judea scene on?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

So who were the Continuity IRA? I haven't imagined them have I?

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

Good grief, they are like the People's Front of Judea.

EDIT Bloody sheep.

[The Huskar Social Union]

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

Good grief, they are like the People's Front of Judea.

EDIT Bloody sheep.

Oh it gets even worse, because you then have groups like the Irish National Liberation Army, which is another Marxist group that originated from members of the Official IRA. The INLA is still around but formally ended their armed campaign in 2009 and declared a ceasefire in 1998 iirc

[The Huskar Social Union]

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

And which of these IRAs did Monty Python base their People's Front of Judea scene on?

Probably all of them lol

[Gormwood]

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

Good grief, they are like the People's Front of Judea.

EDIT Bloody sheep.

"Bunch of splitters, all of them!"

[The Blaatschapen]

No they were real, and are still around.

Ill break it down as the IRA split quite a bit:

The Original IRA of 1919-1922 which fought in the Irish War of Independence then split into Pro and Anti treaty forces during the Irish Civil War (1922-1923). Pro Treaty Forces became the National Army, Anti Treaty Forces carried on as the IRA in one way or another until 1969 in both Ireland and Northern Ireland

Then in 1969 the IRA split into two main groups: The Official IRA (OIRA), who were a more Marxist group (no longer active) and The Provisional IRA (PIRA), who broke off in 1969 over Abstentionism and how to deal with the Troubles (also no longer active, well... officially anyway) Some members of the Provisional IRA claimed responsibility for the murder of PSNI constable Ronan Kerr in 2011 and several other attacks believed to be committed by the RIRA

Then in 1986 the IRA had another split, where The Continuity IRA (CIRA) broke off from the Provisionals largely because the PIRA ended its policy of Abstentionism and recognised the Republic (didnt become active until after the PIRA ceasfire in 1994)

The Provisional IRA then another split after their ceasefire, where people opposed to the peace process became The Real IRA (RIRA), who in 2012 merged with several other smaller republican groups to become The New IRA (NIRA)

Good grief, they are like the People's Front of Judea.

EDIT Bloody sheep.

Bloody sheep?

I am a rare breed

[Dumb Ideologies]

I imagine all the different IRAs all choosing the same target, turning up to plant the bomb, and pointing at each other like that spiderman meme.

[The Archregimancy]

So the Birmingham Museums Trust is in financial difficulty.

Wonder what the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd has to say about the damage to the sector that the pandemic is doing and what to do about it.

Among your many weird one- or two-sentence posts, this one surely ranks among the weirdest.

These are challenging times across the heritage sector; the BMT is hardly unique in looking closely at current staffing needs, and it puzzles me as why you'd choose a single post from the Chair of the BMT Board of Trustees as representative of a sector-wide issue given the very different challenges faced by within the heritage sector generally and the bizarre tangent you then make over statues.

Secondly, while facing challenges, the BMT is financially secure enough to have recently engaged with recruiting a new Chief Executive (which is not the same as Niels de Vos's post as board chair). Recruitment is now closed, but you can see the LinkedIn advert here. The BMT is the largest independent museum charitable trust in the UK; like many heritage organisations it is currently facing painful staffing decisions (which is the crux of the cited post), but - unlike some smaller museums - it will survive. It's also directly engaged in long-term planning for the post-COVID world, so it's hardly sitting around in the vague hope that a vaccine will turn up next month and save the City Museum and Art Gallery.

Finally, there is absolutely no explicit direct link between Niels de Vos's cited post and 'the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd', nor is it clear what you expect the link to be, or why you expect that 'crowd' to react with a single voice towards the staffing decisions of a museum charitable trust, nor is it clear what you expect them to do about it. Give more money? Protest about staff redundancies at Midlands museums? Write firm letters to the government asking them to give more money to the National Trust? Picket the Tower of London until Historic Royal Palaces agrees not to lay off any Beefeaters?

I mean, I know a thing or two about the heritage sector - likely just a teensy bit more than you, dare I say - and I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Certainly it's not a helpful one that anyone in the sector would recognise as a constructive contribution to debate.

And please don't bother to reply to this post with one of your one-sentence rhetorical questions. I'll ignore it. An actual substantive discussion point, in contrast, I would be delighted to follow up on.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I imagine all the different IRAs all choosing the same target, turning up to plant the bomb, and pointing at each other like that spiderman meme.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Bloody sheep?

I am a rare breed

Exactly, cooked rare.

[Vassenor]

So the Birmingham Museums Trust is in financial difficulty.

Wonder what the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd has to say about the damage to the sector that the pandemic is doing and what to do about it.

Among your many weird one- or two-sentence posts, this one surely ranks among the weirdest.

These are challenging times across the heritage sector; the BMT is hardly unique in looking closely at current staffing needs, and it puzzles me as why you'd choose a single post from the Chair of the BMT Board of Trustees as representative of a sector-wide issue given the very different challenges faced by within the heritage sector generally and the bizarre tangent you then make over statues.

Secondly, while facing challenges, the BMT is financially secure enough to have recently engaged with recruiting a new Chief Executive (which is not the same as Niels de Vos's post as board chair). Recruitment is now closed, but you can see the LinkedIn advert here. The BMT is the largest independent museum charitable trust in the UK; like many heritage organisations it is currently facing painful staffing decisions (which is the crux of the cited post), but - unlike some smaller museums - it will survive. It's also directly engaged in long-term planning for the post-COVID world, so it's hardly sitting around in the vague hope that a vaccine will turn up next month and save the City Art Museum and Art Gallery.

Finally, there is absolutely no explicit direct link between Niels de Vos's cited post and 'the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd', nor is it clear what you expect the link to be, or why you expect that 'crowd' to react with a single voice towards the staffing decisions of a museum charitable trust, nor is it clear what you expect them to do about it. Give more money? Protest about staff redundancies at Midlands museums? Write firm letters to the government asking them to give more money to the National Trust? Picket the Tower of London until Historic Royal Palaces agrees not to lay off any Beefeaters?

I mean, I know a thing or two about the heritage sector - likely just a teensy bit more than you, dare I say - and I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Certainly it's not a helpful one that anyone in the sector would recognise as a constructive contribution to debate.

And please don't bother to reply to this post with one of your one-sentence rhetorical questions. I'll ignore it. An actual substantive discussion point, in contrast, I would be delighted to follow up on.

My point was that if those people care so much about giving an easy ability to learn about history, which removing statues apparently takes away, why aren't they raising a similar stink about the problems facing museums? Surely closing museums and other heritage institutions is just as much of a threat to easy learning.

[Hirota]

Among your many weird one- or two-sentence posts, this one surely ranks among the weirdest.

These are challenging times across the heritage sector; the BMT is hardly unique in looking closely at current staffing needs, and it puzzles me as why you'd choose a single post from the Chair of the BMT Board of Trustees as representative of a sector-wide issue given the very different challenges faced by within the heritage sector generally and the bizarre tangent you then make over statues.

Secondly, while facing challenges, the BMT is financially secure enough to have recently engaged with recruiting a new Chief Executive (which is not the same as Niels de Vos's post as board chair). Recruitment is now closed, but you can see the LinkedIn advert here. The BMT is the largest independent museum charitable trust in the UK; like many heritage organisations it is currently facing painful staffing decisions (which is the crux of the cited post), but - unlike some smaller museums - it will survive. It's also directly engaged in long-term planning for the post-COVID world, so it's hardly sitting around in the vague hope that a vaccine will turn up next month and save the City Art Museum and Art Gallery.

Finally, there is absolutely no explicit direct link between Niels de Vos's cited post and 'the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd', nor is it clear what you expect the link to be, or why you expect that 'crowd' to react with a single voice towards the staffing decisions of a museum charitable trust, nor is it clear what you expect them to do about it. Give more money? Protest about staff redundancies at Midlands museums? Write firm letters to the government asking them to give more money to the National Trust? Picket the Tower of London until Historic Royal Palaces agrees not to lay off any Beefeaters?

I mean, I know a thing or two about the heritage sector - likely just a teensy bit more than you, dare I say - and I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Certainly it's not a helpful one that anyone in the sector would recognise as a constructive contribution to debate.

And please don't bother to reply to this post with one of your one-sentence rhetorical questions. I'll ignore it. An actual substantive discussion point, in contrast, I would be delighted to follow up on.

My point was that if those people care so much about giving an easy ability to learn about history, which removing statues apparently takes away, why aren't they raising a similar stink about the problems facing museums? Surely closing museums and other heritage institutions is just as much of a threat to easy learning.

No, your point is you would rather assume that "those people" - this imaginary and stupid demographic you've decided all act as a group mind - "aren't raising a similar stink" with no evidence other than what you've pulled out of your arse, and as Arch pointed out, no evidence of a stink needing to be raised other than a single post from the Chair of the BMT Board of Trustees.

Still, if you want someone to come out and say that the erasure of history is a bad thing regardless of if it's a mob pulling down statues or because of financial pressures as a result of Covid-9, there isn't anything to disagree with there. Honestly, was that supposed to be difficult to parse or something?

[The Archregimancy]

Among your many weird one- or two-sentence posts, this one surely ranks among the weirdest.

These are challenging times across the heritage sector; the BMT is hardly unique in looking closely at current staffing needs, and it puzzles me as why you'd choose a single post from the Chair of the BMT Board of Trustees as representative of a sector-wide issue given the very different challenges faced by within the heritage sector generally and the bizarre tangent you then make over statues.

Secondly, while facing challenges, the BMT is financially secure enough to have recently engaged with recruiting a new Chief Executive (which is not the same as Niels de Vos's post as board chair). Recruitment is now closed, but you can see the LinkedIn advert here. The BMT is the largest independent museum charitable trust in the UK; like many heritage organisations it is currently facing painful staffing decisions (which is the crux of the cited post), but - unlike some smaller museums - it will survive. It's also directly engaged in long-term planning for the post-COVID world, so it's hardly sitting around in the vague hope that a vaccine will turn up next month and save the City Museum and Art Gallery.

Finally, there is absolutely no explicit direct link between Niels de Vos's cited post and 'the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd', nor is it clear what you expect the link to be, or why you expect that 'crowd' to react with a single voice towards the staffing decisions of a museum charitable trust, nor is it clear what you expect them to do about it. Give more money? Protest about staff redundancies at Midlands museums? Write firm letters to the government asking them to give more money to the National Trust? Picket the Tower of London until Historic Royal Palaces agrees not to lay off any Beefeaters?

I mean, I know a thing or two about the heritage sector - likely just a teensy bit more than you, dare I say - and I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Certainly it's not a helpful one that anyone in the sector would recognise as a constructive contribution to debate.

And please don't bother to reply to this post with one of your one-sentence rhetorical questions. I'll ignore it. An actual substantive discussion point, in contrast, I would be delighted to follow up on.

My point was that if those people care so much about giving an easy ability to learn about history, which removing statues apparently takes away, why aren't they raising a similar stink about the problems facing museums? Surely closing museums and other heritage institutions is just as much of a threat to easy learning.

I can assure you that extensive coverage is being given to many of these issues, and stinks are being raised.

That you're unaware of said stinks does not mean that those stinks are not happening. Taking just one example, perhaps you'd like to review the comments section of the Daily Mail article on that Beefeaters story given the likely overlap between Mail readers and 'the "removing statues is erasing history and must be stopped" crowd'?

Also, Birmingham Museums Trust staff layoffs - as per the link you originally posted - are no doubt deeply regrettable (and I have several colleagues and friends across the sector who are furloughed and whose status is under review), but are not remotely the same as 'closing museums and other heritage institutions'.

Some smaller museums are potentially in danger, yes, but if it's those smaller museums that concern you (and perhaps you can provide a list of the ones you feel most strongly about?), then the Birmingham Museums Trust - again, the largest independent museum charitable trust in the UK - was perhaps not a well-judged example to use.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Looking forward to the gammon outrage about the idea of putting a person of colour on a bank note.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Looking forward to the gammon outrage about the idea of putting a person of colour on a bank note.

Who do they wana put on a note?

[The Archregimancy]

Looking forward to the gammon outrage about the idea of putting a person of colour on a bank note.

There are no vacancies to the best of my knowledge - not on Bank of England banknotes, anyway. Perhaps there's scope for outrage on this issue in Scotland or Northern Ireland?

We are, however, about to get a gay man on the £50 note; will that do for the time being?