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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Hirota
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6364
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:30 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Thankfully Chris Grayling didn't get made chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee. A bullet dodged there.

Thank goodness. Withdrawing the whip from Julian Lewis shows just how petty this government is (and I say that while disliking basically all of his political positions).

Let's just hope he's at least more qualified than Grayling...
He was chair of the defence select committee last parliament, so there is some prior experience. He's a bit of a character though.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
Diplomat
 
Posts: 533
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:15 am

Yvette Cooper casually eviscerating the Home Secretary and Permanent Secretary to the Home Office.

Between this and the report about her bullying becoming news again, it's not been a great week for Priti Patel.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5719
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:42 am

Judges rule in favour of Shamima Begum being allowed back into the UK.
Everything is intertwinkled

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The Islands of Versilia
Minister
 
Posts: 2821
Founded: Feb 21, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Islands of Versilia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:58 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Judges rule in favour of Shamima Begum being allowed back into the UK.


That’s disappointing.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5719
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:04 am

The Islands of Versilia wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Judges rule in favour of Shamima Begum being allowed back into the UK.


That’s disappointing.


I think inevitable.

More details:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53427197
Everything is intertwinkled

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13809
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:07 am

The Islands of Versilia wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Judges rule in favour of Shamima Begum being allowed back into the UK.


That’s disappointing.

Look on the bright side if she comes back she can be placed in custody and a police investigation plus trial can actually be done.
Last edited by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary on Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Islands of Versilia
Minister
 
Posts: 2821
Founded: Feb 21, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Islands of Versilia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:09 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
The Islands of Versilia wrote:
That’s disappointing.


I think inevitable.

More details:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53427197


So the government’s saying that it won’t assist her in getting out of Syria, but it won’t impede her entering the UK to challenge her revoked citizenship? That’s the basis of it, yeah?
I guess she can challenge it but I won’t be pleased if she gets it back. She’s a traitor and a terrorist-by-association.

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The Islands of Versilia
Minister
 
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Founded: Feb 21, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Islands of Versilia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:09 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
The Islands of Versilia wrote:
That’s disappointing.

Look on the bright side if she comes back she can be placed in custody and a police investigation plus trial can actually be done.


Yeah, that’s the positive of it.

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Posts: 13809
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:10 am

The Islands of Versilia wrote:
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:Look on the bright side if she comes back she can be placed in custody and a police investigation plus trial can actually be done.


Yeah, that’s the positive of it.

At least we aren't discussing shipping her to bloody Gitmo without a trial.

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The Islands of Versilia
Minister
 
Posts: 2821
Founded: Feb 21, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Islands of Versilia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:19 am

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
The Islands of Versilia wrote:
Yeah, that’s the positive of it.

At least we aren't discussing shipping her to bloody Gitmo without a trial.


Yeah, that’s crossing the line even in my mind.

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CoraSpia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8999
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Capitalizt

Postby CoraSpia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:21 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
I don't think she would have been. She was ditherer.


She is unimaginative but competent. She would have got on with things and done what was necessary, following scientific advice more than making political decisions.

At least any virus she got could be removed using Norton.
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CoraSpia
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Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Capitalizt

Postby CoraSpia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:26 am

The Islands of Versilia wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
I think inevitable.

More details:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53427197


So the government’s saying that it won’t assist her in getting out of Syria, but it won’t impede her entering the UK to challenge her revoked citizenship? That’s the basis of it, yeah?
I guess she can challenge it but I won’t be pleased if she gets it back. She’s a traitor and a terrorist-by-association.

What crime do you think she's committed?
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The Islands of Versilia
Minister
 
Posts: 2821
Founded: Feb 21, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Islands of Versilia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:30 am

CoraSpia wrote:
The Islands of Versilia wrote:
So the government’s saying that it won’t assist her in getting out of Syria, but it won’t impede her entering the UK to challenge her revoked citizenship? That’s the basis of it, yeah?
I guess she can challenge it but I won’t be pleased if she gets it back. She’s a traitor and a terrorist-by-association.

What crime do you think she's committed?


She joined ISIL. By doing so, she rejected British values and made herself a traitor to the United Kingdom and its people. Even if she hasn’t killed anyone personally, she’s a criminal by association and her joining ISIL means she’s condoned all its atrocities.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:35 am

I think ultimately the government will lose. You can't go around stripping people of citizenship whatever their actions.
Everything is intertwinkled

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Agarntrop
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8342
Founded: May 14, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Agarntrop » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:41 am

CoraSpia wrote:
The Islands of Versilia wrote:
So the government’s saying that it won’t assist her in getting out of Syria, but it won’t impede her entering the UK to challenge her revoked citizenship? That’s the basis of it, yeah?
I guess she can challenge it but I won’t be pleased if she gets it back. She’s a traitor and a terrorist-by-association.

What crime do you think she's committed?

Membership of a proscribed organisation (ISIL), punishable under the Terrorism Act 2000.
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Hirota
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6364
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:56 am

Agarntrop wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:What crime do you think she's committed?

Membership of a proscribed organisation (ISIL), punishable under the Terrorism Act 2000.
Then she surely should be put on trial by her peers and ultimately punished under that legislation if found guilty rather than kept at arms length?

Huh yougov participants apparently have a surprisingly strong opinion about it
Last edited by Hirota on Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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CoraSpia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8999
Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Capitalizt

Postby CoraSpia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:11 am

The Islands of Versilia wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:What crime do you think she's committed?


She joined ISIL. By doing so, she rejected British values and made herself a traitor to the United Kingdom and its people. Even if she hasn’t killed anyone personally, she’s a criminal by association and her joining ISIL means she’s condoned all its atrocities.

What are 'british values?'
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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greed and Death » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:23 am

Agarntrop wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:What crime do you think she's committed?

Membership of a proscribed organisation (ISIL), punishable under the Terrorism Act 2000.

But she was a child when she went to join them. Children do stupid shit, Is there really a need to make her stateless for life because she was a stupid 15 year old.
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The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
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Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:41 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:Membership of a proscribed organisation (ISIL), punishable under the Terrorism Act 2000.

But she was a child when she went to join them. Children do stupid shit, Is there really a need to make her stateless for life because she was a stupid 15 year old.


I never joined a terrorist organisation when I was 15.

Most 15 year olds don't. :meh:
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Agarntrop
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Agarntrop » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:41 am

Greed and Death wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:Membership of a proscribed organisation (ISIL), punishable under the Terrorism Act 2000.

But she was a child when she went to join them. Children do stupid shit, Is there really a need to make her stateless for life because she was a stupid 15 year old.

She should not be stripped of her citizenship, I disagreed with that decision. However, as a 15 year old she was well above the age of criminal responsibility and as a result needs to be held legally accountable for the very serious offence she has committed.
Last edited by Agarntrop on Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Philjia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Philjia » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:29 am

British terrorists should be tried in British courts. Foisting her on Bangladesh was an intensely dishonourable act by the government.
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Ostroeuropa
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:35 am

Philjia wrote:British terrorists should be tried in British courts. Foisting her on Bangladesh was an intensely dishonourable act by the government.


Her crimes were committed in Syria. She should be tried by Syrian courts. However, if she returns to the UK, she should be tried here as well for breaking our laws. I agree that trying to pawn her off on Bangladesh is ridiculous.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:43 am

We don't want her back. It cannot be because she's an uncontainable threat particularly since there are a number of people in prison or under observation already and we haven't left them to rot.

I would wager that people would be far happier inviting her back to look at the case if the death penalty were an option in the event of her being found guilty but for some reason we like to pretend we don't believe in this even as we say she's lost the right to live as a Brit and many no doubt silently hoped that disease would do the work for us in that camp.

I don't like this veneer of flimflam but that's what you get when politics is an endlessly iterating game of handbags between two ugly boybands trying to confidence trick everyone that they're pretty.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:51 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:We don't want her back. It cannot be because she's an uncontainable threat particularly since there are a number of people in prison or under observation already and we haven't left them to rot.

I would wager that people would be far happier inviting her back to look at the case if the death penalty were an option in the event of her being found guilty but for some reason we like to pretend we don't believe in this even as we say she's lost the right to live as a Brit and many no doubt silently hoped that disease would do the work for us in that camp.

I don't like this veneer of flimflam but that's what you get when politics is an endlessly iterating game of handbags between two ugly boybands trying to confidence trick everyone that they're pretty.


Given that she is a war criminal, I'm broadly fine with the death penalty. I don't support it for civilian activities.
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Gormwood
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Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:51 am

So how many British terrorists who committed more severe terror crimes than run off to join a terrorist failstate- possibly on UK soil- were deported to a foreign country afterwards?
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