UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Chan Island]

Opinium Poll, 8-9 July 2020, as a general election:
uk politics reddit thread

Changes:

CON: 322 (-43)
LAB: 248 (+46)
SNP: 50 (+2)
L-DEM: 6 (-5)
GRN: 1 (-)
PLAID: 4 (-)
SPKR: 1 (-)

Seat Changes:

Seat changes:

Conservative to Labour:

Aberconwy

Birmingham Northfield

Blyth Valley

Bolton North East

Bridgend

Burnley

Bury North

Bury South

Chingford and Woodford Green

Chipping Barnet

Clwyd South

Darlington

Delyn

Derby North

Dewsbury

Don Valley

North West Durham

Gedling

Hastings and Rye

Hendon

Heywood and Middleton

High Peak

Hyndburn

Keighley

Kensington

Leigh

Lincoln

Peterborough

Pudsey

Reading West

Redcar

Rother Valley

Sedgefield

Southport

Stoke-on-Trent Central

Stroud

Truro and Falmouth

Vale of Clwyd

Wakefield

Warrington South

Watford

West Bromwich East

Wolverhampton South West

Wrexham

Wycombe

Ynys Mon

Liberal Democrat to SNP:

Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

Edinburgh West

North East Fife

Orkney and Shetland

SNP to Conservative:

Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock

Gordon

Liberal Democrat to Conservative:

Westmorland and Lonsdale

This is the last post i made about Opinium Polls for 18th June if you want to compare the results:

But I thought we were supposed to be on for eternal Tory rule.

Considering the Tories are still the largest party in that poll, that is still holding true.

Also, looking at that- if Tim Farron was to lose his seat that would actually be somewhat sad. Especially to a Tory.

[Celritannia]

But I thought we were supposed to be on for eternal Tory rule.

Considering the Tories are still the largest party in that poll, that is still holding true.

Also, looking at that- if Tim Farron was to lose his seat that would actually be somewhat sad. Especially to a Tory.

It would at least lead to a better opposition front between Labour and the SNP.

[Agarntrop]

But I thought we were supposed to be on for eternal Tory rule.

Considering the Tories are still the largest party in that poll, that is still holding true.

Also, looking at that- if Tim Farron was to lose his seat that would actually be somewhat sad. Especially to a Tory.

I like Tim Farron, but nowadays the libdems are incredibly odious and I don't really pity them.

[Philjia]

Opinium Poll, 8-9 July 2020, as a general election:
uk politics reddit thread

Changes:

CON: 322 (-43)
LAB: 248 (+46)
SNP: 50 (+2)
L-DEM: 6 (-5)
GRN: 1 (-)
PLAID: 4 (-)
SPKR: 1 (-)

Seat Changes:

Seat changes:

Conservative to Labour:

Aberconwy

Birmingham Northfield

Blyth Valley

Bolton North East

Bridgend

Burnley

Bury North

Bury South

Chingford and Woodford Green

Chipping Barnet

Clwyd South

Darlington

Delyn

Derby North

Dewsbury

Don Valley

North West Durham

Gedling

Hastings and Rye

Hendon

Heywood and Middleton

High Peak

Hyndburn

Keighley

Kensington

Leigh

Lincoln

Peterborough

Pudsey

Reading West

Redcar

Rother Valley

Sedgefield

Southport

Stoke-on-Trent Central

Stroud

Truro and Falmouth

Vale of Clwyd

Wakefield

Warrington South

Watford

West Bromwich East

Wolverhampton South West

Wrexham

Wycombe

Ynys Mon

Liberal Democrat to SNP:

Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

Edinburgh West

North East Fife

Orkney and Shetland

SNP to Conservative:

Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock

Gordon

Liberal Democrat to Conservative:

Westmorland and Lonsdale

This is the last post i made about Opinium Polls for 18th June if you want to compare the results:

But I thought we were supposed to be on for eternal Tory rule.

If that poll was the results we'd get another Tory minority government with DUP support so, yes, Tory hegemony is still on.

[Souseiseki]

https://outline.com/FAT6HX

First is a plan for an unelected oversight body that would hold any new devolved bills to a “market impact test”, which the Scottish government believes would have jeopardised Scotland-only initiatives such as free university tuition, minimum unit pricing for alcohol or the introduction of a smoking ban before the rest of the UK.

Second is the proposal for a “mutual recognition regime” requiring regulatory standards in one part of the UK to be automatically accepted in others. Jeremy Miles, the Welsh counsel general and minister for European transition, said this would “drive a coach and horses through the capacity of individual governments in different parts of the UK to deliver policy objectives in their economies”.

In practice this could leave them unable to reject UK government decisions on, for example, chlorinated chicken or genetically modified (GM) organisms, he said, adding: “If the UK government does what it tends to do, which is to deregulate, it will create intolerable pressures on the UK in terms of internal market.”

lmao this is literally what the UK claims the EU did to it but with england doing it to the rest of the UK absolutely amazing

[Kragholm Free States]

https://outline.com/FAT6HX

First is a plan for an unelected oversight body that would hold any new devolved bills to a “market impact test”, which the Scottish government believes would have jeopardised Scotland-only initiatives such as free university tuition, minimum unit pricing for alcohol or the introduction of a smoking ban before the rest of the UK.

Second is the proposal for a “mutual recognition regime” requiring regulatory standards in one part of the UK to be automatically accepted in others. Jeremy Miles, the Welsh counsel general and minister for European transition, said this would “drive a coach and horses through the capacity of individual governments in different parts of the UK to deliver policy objectives in their economies”.

In practice this could leave them unable to reject UK government decisions on, for example, chlorinated chicken or genetically modified (GM) organisms, he said, adding: “If the UK government does what it tends to do, which is to deregulate, it will create intolerable pressures on the UK in terms of internal market.”

lmao this is literally what the UK claims the EU did to it but with england doing it to the rest of the UK absolutely amazing

Sounds bad, but honestly I can't muster up much sympathy for Scotland whinging that they might not get to keep doing their usual schtick of being even more authoritarian than the rest of the UK while hiding behind Mel Gibson Screeching.

[Greed and Death]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/12/health/b ... index.html

So the UK wont wear masks ? why are you all listening to Trump ?

[CoraSpia]

https://outline.com/FAT6HX

First is a plan for an unelected oversight body that would hold any new devolved bills to a “market impact test”, which the Scottish government believes would have jeopardised Scotland-only initiatives such as free university tuition, minimum unit pricing for alcohol or the introduction of a smoking ban before the rest of the UK.

Second is the proposal for a “mutual recognition regime” requiring regulatory standards in one part of the UK to be automatically accepted in others. Jeremy Miles, the Welsh counsel general and minister for European transition, said this would “drive a coach and horses through the capacity of individual governments in different parts of the UK to deliver policy objectives in their economies”.

In practice this could leave them unable to reject UK government decisions on, for example, chlorinated chicken or genetically modified (GM) organisms, he said, adding: “If the UK government does what it tends to do, which is to deregulate, it will create intolerable pressures on the UK in terms of internal market.”

lmao this is literally what the UK claims the EU did to it but with england doing it to the rest of the UK absolutely amazing

So it stops Scotland doing its usual nanny state thing, or at least it stops it doing more than England?

This is a good thing.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Opinium Poll, 8-9 July 2020, as a general election:
uk politics reddit thread

Changes:

CON: 322 (-43)
LAB: 248 (+46)
SNP: 50 (+2)
L-DEM: 6 (-5)
GRN: 1 (-)
PLAID: 4 (-)
SPKR: 1 (-)

Seat Changes:

Seat changes:

Conservative to Labour:

Aberconwy

Birmingham Northfield

Blyth Valley

Bolton North East

Bridgend

Burnley

Bury North

Bury South

Chingford and Woodford Green

Chipping Barnet

Clwyd South

Darlington

Delyn

Derby North

Dewsbury

Don Valley

North West Durham

Gedling

Hastings and Rye

Hendon

Heywood and Middleton

High Peak

Hyndburn

Keighley

Kensington

Leigh

Lincoln

Peterborough

Pudsey

Reading West

Redcar

Rother Valley

Sedgefield

Southport

Stoke-on-Trent Central

Stroud

Truro and Falmouth

Vale of Clwyd

Wakefield

Warrington South

Watford

West Bromwich East

Wolverhampton South West

Wrexham

Wycombe

Ynys Mon

Liberal Democrat to SNP:

Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

Edinburgh West

North East Fife

Orkney and Shetland

SNP to Conservative:

Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock

Gordon

Liberal Democrat to Conservative:

Westmorland and Lonsdale

This is the last post i made about Opinium Polls for 18th June if you want to compare the results:

If there was an election held tomorrow and this was the result, do you believe Keir Starmer should resign as leader of the Labour party or would you believe he should stay on?

[Celritannia]

https://outline.com/FAT6HX



lmao this is literally what the UK claims the EU did to it but with england doing it to the rest of the UK absolutely amazing

So it stops Scotland doing its usual nanny state thing, or at least it stops it doing more than England?

This is a good thing.

You mean actually helping people?

[CoraSpia]

So it stops Scotland doing its usual nanny state thing, or at least it stops it doing more than England?

This is a good thing.

You mean actually helping people?

Read what souse said again. It'll prevent Scotland from enacting measures that impact the market too much or which create regulations that are stricter than the rest of the UK.

[CoraSpia]

Opinium Poll, 8-9 July 2020, as a general election:
uk politics reddit thread

Changes:

CON: 322 (-43)
LAB: 248 (+46)
SNP: 50 (+2)
L-DEM: 6 (-5)
GRN: 1 (-)
PLAID: 4 (-)
SPKR: 1 (-)

Seat Changes:

Seat changes:

Conservative to Labour:

Aberconwy

Birmingham Northfield

Blyth Valley

Bolton North East

Bridgend

Burnley

Bury North

Bury South

Chingford and Woodford Green

Chipping Barnet

Clwyd South

Darlington

Delyn

Derby North

Dewsbury

Don Valley

North West Durham

Gedling

Hastings and Rye

Hendon

Heywood and Middleton

High Peak

Hyndburn

Keighley

Kensington

Leigh

Lincoln

Peterborough

Pudsey

Reading West

Redcar

Rother Valley

Sedgefield

Southport

Stoke-on-Trent Central

Stroud

Truro and Falmouth

Vale of Clwyd

Wakefield

Warrington South

Watford

West Bromwich East

Wolverhampton South West

Wrexham

Wycombe

Ynys Mon

Liberal Democrat to SNP:

Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross

Edinburgh West

North East Fife

Orkney and Shetland

SNP to Conservative:

Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock

Gordon

Liberal Democrat to Conservative:

Westmorland and Lonsdale

This is the last post i made about Opinium Polls for 18th June if you want to compare the results:

If there was an election held tomorrow and this was the result, do you believe Keir Starmer should resign as leader of the Labour party or would you believe he should stay on?

Resign, only because I don't want a prosecutor in charge of the country and the tories aren't acting like they want to win next time around.

[Kragholm Free States]

So it stops Scotland doing its usual nanny state thing, or at least it stops it doing more than England?

This is a good thing.

You mean actually helping people?

Who is helped by artificially bumping up the price of booze? It's not going to stop people from being alcoholics, that's simply not how addiction works. It's just going to make alcoholics poorer, which does far more harm than good when they can't afford things like food or shelter. It's just a typically shit neo-Puritan policy designed around punishing vices rather than aiding those who suffer from them.

I'm all for devolution of power, which is why I think this oversight body is generally a bad idea. I just really wish Scotland didn't consistently choose to exercise its devolved power in such a dickish way.

[Vassenor]

You mean actually helping people?

Read what souse said again. It'll prevent Scotland from enacting measures that impact the market too much or which create regulations that are stricter than the rest of the UK.

Now explain what makes those regulations actually objectively bad.

[CoraSpia]

Read what souse said again. It'll prevent Scotland from enacting measures that impact the market too much or which create regulations that are stricter than the rest of the UK.

Now explain what makes those regulations actually objectively bad.

Free tuition? I used to believe in it, however then I began to wonder why my friends who didn't go to university should fund my degree. It's also something Scotland can't afford.
Smoking bans are wrong as they restrict the liberty not just of the patron but of the business owner.
Kragholm pointed out what's wrong with the minimum unit pricing.

[Vassenor]

Now explain what makes those regulations actually objectively bad.

Free tuition? I used to believe in it, however then I began to wonder why my friends who didn't go to university should fund my degree. It's also something Scotland can't afford.
Smoking bans are wrong as they restrict the liberty not just of the patron but of the business owner.
Kragholm pointed out what's wrong with the minimum unit pricing.

So it's bad because fuck you got mine?

[CoraSpia]

Free tuition? I used to believe in it, however then I began to wonder why my friends who didn't go to university should fund my degree. It's also something Scotland can't afford.
Smoking bans are wrong as they restrict the liberty not just of the patron but of the business owner.
Kragholm pointed out what's wrong with the minimum unit pricing.

So it's bad because fuck you got mine?

uhm...no. It's bad because a bunch of people who don't go to university and will never benefit from it are having to pay to assist others to go through universities, and to open up doors for them that they can't open for themselves. Also, Scotland can't afford it.

[Hrythingland]

So it's bad because fuck you got mine?

uhm...no. It's bad because a bunch of people who don't go to university and will never benefit from it are having to pay to assist others to go through universities, and to open up doors for them that they can't open for themselves. Also, Scotland can't afford it.

Those people benefit indirectly from the skills that certain degrees provide. Though I think, and I say this as a humanities student myself, that most folk ought to pay for university degrees and only those in Medicine or scientific fields ought to have the option of free tuition. There should be schemes to bring in high achieving poor students to do humanities degrees but by and large we should pay our own way. Bear in mind that uni fees are no deterrent to many people. Because when you get within a certain earning bracket then it is just slowly deducted piecemeal from your salary like a tax. You never see that money. I know a fair few folk from families where they are eligible for full student loan and maintenance fees, which with a job on the side means that they can live fairly comfortably through the year.

[Fartsniffage]

So it's bad because fuck you got mine?

uhm...no. It's bad because a bunch of people who don't go to university and will never benefit from it are having to pay to assist others to go through universities, and to open up doors for them that they can't open for themselves. Also, Scotland can't afford it.

Horseshit. Free access to university allows people from poor backgrounds to achieve their potential to the betterment of both society and the state. If it's free to all then it becomes based on merit rather than birth.

[CoraSpia]

uhm...no. It's bad because a bunch of people who don't go to university and will never benefit from it are having to pay to assist others to go through universities, and to open up doors for them that they can't open for themselves. Also, Scotland can't afford it.

Horseshit. Free access to university allows people from poor backgrounds to achieve their potential to the betterment of both society and the state. If it's free to all then it becomes based on merit rather than birth.

I don't have a student loan, but I thought that the repayments for those were designed so they were as light a burden as possible, while still making the person who actually received the service pay for it?

[Fartsniffage]

Horseshit. Free access to university allows people from poor backgrounds to achieve their potential to the betterment of both society and the state. If it's free to all then it becomes based on merit rather than birth.

I don't have a student loan, but I thought that the repayments for those were designed so they were as light a burden as possible, while still making the person who actually received the service pay for it?

You think that because you're rich. It doesn't work that way.

My brother came from a working class family and has ended up with about £50,000 debt to get a medical degree. He can pay it, he finished it. Things happen though and some people don't finish. All the current system does is make poor people afraid they'll be thousands of pound in debt before they even start life. It punishes poor people and supports rich people. Which is why you like it.

[CoraSpia]

I don't have a student loan, but I thought that the repayments for those were designed so they were as light a burden as possible, while still making the person who actually received the service pay for it?

You think that because you're rich. It doesn't work that way.

My brother came from a working class family and has ended up with about £50,000 debt to get a medical degree. He can pay it, he finished it. Things happen though and some people don't finish. All the current system does is make poor people afraid they'll be thousands of pound in debt before they even start life. It punishes poor people and supports rich people. Which is why you like it.

Do these people have to pay back an amount they can't afford? How many houses have been repossessed due to student debt repayments in England?

[Souseiseki]

So it's bad because fuck you got mine?

uhm...no. It's bad because a bunch of people who don't go to university and will never benefit from it are having to pay to assist others to go through universities, and to open up doors for them that they can't open for themselves. Also, Scotland can't afford it.

the country as a whole benefits from having an educated populace because our economy is built on services and high skilled work. if the tuition weren't free they'd probably take out government loans most of which would end up written off anyway. just like healthcare, you will end up paying for it one way or another and the "well if they don't use it personally clearly they get no benefit so why should the pay" way of thinking is extremely shortsighted and wrong. you can't even call it selfish because it directly benefits you if you think about it so a selfish person would be supporting it anyway.

[Fartsniffage]

You think that because you're rich. It doesn't work that way.

My brother came from a working class family and has ended up with about £50,000 debt to get a medical degree. He can pay it, he finished it. Things happen though and some people don't finish. All the current system does is make poor people afraid they'll be thousands of pound in debt before they even start life. It punishes poor people and supports rich people. Which is why you like it.

Do these people have to pay back an amount they can't afford? How many houses have been repossessed due to student debt repayments in England?

Don't be dense. If you're in a family that lives from paycheque to paycheque then amassing that kind of debt is daunting. Try to imagine you're not loaded, I'm sure you can get it.

[CoraSpia]

Do these people have to pay back an amount they can't afford? How many houses have been repossessed due to student debt repayments in England?

Don't be dense. If you're in a family that lives from paycheque to paycheque then amassing that kind of debt is daunting. Try to imagine you're not loaded, I'm sure you can get it.

When I was going from school to university, we had a woman in from the local uni who explained how the student loan system worked. She was very clear that what happened was that a small amount of your income would be garnished in order to pay for it and that it wasn't like an ordinary debt. The initial fear might be uncomfortable, but it's not like they don't try as hard as possible to get it into peoples heads that it's not going to cause them problems.