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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:50 am

Celritannia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:We'd quite rightly sue them, and since such an act is illegal in the UK, we'd win. The government owns the nhs hospital land, for the most part.


And is in use by NHS England.

You mean an arms-length body which manages oversight and allocation?
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:29 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
And is in use by NHS England.

You mean an arms-length body which manages oversight and allocation?


It is still used by NHS England. Splitting hairs does not disrupt that.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:54 am

Celritannia wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:You mean an arms-length body which manages oversight and allocation?


It is still used by NHS England. Splitting hairs does not disrupt that.

I'm struggling to see your point. Whether the government is using it doesn't mean they can't sell it.
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Postby Agarntrop » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:56 am

GVH wants to abolish the NHS, why should we still consider his opinions on improving it relevant?
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:02 am

Agarntrop wrote:GVH wants to abolish the NHS, why should we still consider his opinions on improving it relevant?

I'm not discussing my opinions on it. I'm saying what the conservatives are doing to improve it, which is 50000 new nurses and 40 new hospitals
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:13 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:GVH wants to abolish the NHS, why should we still consider his opinions on improving it relevant?

I'm not discussing my opinions on it. I'm saying what the conservatives are doing to improve it, which is 50000 new nurses and 40 new hospitals

But it's not 50,000 new nurses. And you know this.

So why continue to lie?
Last edited by The Notorious Mad Jack on Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:24 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:GVH wants to abolish the NHS, why should we still consider his opinions on improving it relevant?

I'm not discussing my opinions on it. I'm saying what the conservatives are doing to improve it, which is 50000 new nurses and 40 new hospitals


And how much of that have they actually tried to deliver on? And what is the actual net gain, not just "we're doing this"?

Like it's been pointed out before that "we're hiring 20000 new police officers" doesn't even come close to replacing the officers lost due to police cuts earlier in the government.
Last edited by Vassenor on Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:53 am

Vassenor wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I'm not discussing my opinions on it. I'm saying what the conservatives are doing to improve it, which is 50000 new nurses and 40 new hospitals


And how much of that have they actually tried to deliver on? And what is the actual net gain, not just "we're doing this"?

Like it's been pointed out before that "we're hiring 20000 new police officers" doesn't even come close to replacing the officers lost due to police cuts earlier in the government.

The last government wasn't a boris Johnson government.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:00 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And how much of that have they actually tried to deliver on? And what is the actual net gain, not just "we're doing this"?

Like it's been pointed out before that "we're hiring 20000 new police officers" doesn't even come close to replacing the officers lost due to police cuts earlier in the government.

The last government wasn't a boris Johnson government.


And?
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:04 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
And how much of that have they actually tried to deliver on? And what is the actual net gain, not just "we're doing this"?

Like it's been pointed out before that "we're hiring 20000 new police officers" doesn't even come close to replacing the officers lost due to police cuts earlier in the government.

The last government wasn't a boris Johnson government.


Neither is this one.

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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:07 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:The last government wasn't a boris Johnson government.


Neither is this one.

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Postby Novus America » Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:12 am

The NHS does need reform. And some property might need to be reallocated or sold, in the one source it said some 100 of the over 500 to be sold were still in use, meaning some 400 were not in use.

And selling a property in a very expensive area to buy one in a cheaper area might be a good choice.

The problem is I do not think either side is arguing on good faith at all. I think the Tories want to simply cut it over reform it, and Labour will automatically criticize any Tory policy towards the NHS, regardless of validity.
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Postby Britannia Maior » Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:54 pm

Jonathan Pie released a new video titled “WOKE Utopia”. Thoughts?

I personally agree with him here, but I thought I’d share it in case any of you lot wanted something to discuss.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:07 pm

Britannia Maior wrote:Jonathan Pie released a new video titled “WOKE Utopia”. Thoughts?

I personally agree with him here, but I thought I’d share it in case any of you lot wanted something to discuss.


It's spot on. Unwillingness to see any nuance or give anyone any benefit of the doubt is symptomatic of dogmatic thinking, and ideologies that allow little or no room for dissent tend to breed more of it in the long run. Hearts and minds are lost by such approaches and it causes a brain drain as you pick off those who think too critically. It's self-defeating, but winning the argument is less important than being "pure".
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Postby Agarntrop » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:20 pm

Britannia Maior wrote:Jonathan Pie released a new video titled “WOKE Utopia”. Thoughts?

I personally agree with him here, but I thought I’d share it in case any of you lot wanted something to discuss.

I am in agreement with him there, yes.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:26 pm

Johnson banging on about leaving on "Australia terms" again. Such an annoying phrase to use.
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Postby Nuroblav » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:33 pm

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Johnson banging on about leaving on "Australia terms" again. Such an annoying phrase to use.

Leaving on oven-ready Australia terms while we send the virus packing?
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Postby Novus America » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:05 pm

So there was a separate thread for this in regards to the US political implications but reports are Russia is paying money to people to kill UK soldiers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... k-soldiers

If true this is a serious escalation, especially after the Russian assassinations on UK soil.
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Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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Postby Hirota » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:24 am

Britannia Maior wrote:Jonathan Pie released a new video titled “WOKE Utopia”. Thoughts?

I personally agree with him here, but I thought I’d share it in case any of you lot wanted something to discuss.
Oh, he's spot on. I've already talked about how RLB getting sacked was an inevitable consequence of embracing cancel culture.
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Postby Britannia Maior » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:27 am

Novus America wrote:So there was a separate thread for this in regards to the US political implications but reports are Russia is paying money to people to kill UK soldiers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... k-soldiers

If true this is a serious escalation, especially after the Russian assassinations on UK soil.


It wouldn’t surprise me and it annoys me that we aren’t treating Moscow like the scourge it is. A Cold War mentality needs to come back and our government needs to stop taking Russian bribes and put Moscow back in its post-USSR grave.
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| The Times | Borders predicted to reopen early next year at the latest, HM Government announced in policy update to Parliament; reopening to be gradual with the “most trustworthy” countries to be included first before any others. // Worker's unions across the Commonwealth to be broken up and reorganised under new policy promoting guild-like and more local unions. // Russian-British man renounces Russian citizenship, publicly denounces former homeland for crimes against peace and humanity.

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Postby North German Realm » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:32 am

Britannia Maior wrote:
Novus America wrote:So there was a separate thread for this in regards to the US political implications but reports are Russia is paying money to people to kill UK soldiers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... k-soldiers

If true this is a serious escalation, especially after the Russian assassinations on UK soil.


It wouldn’t surprise me and it annoys me that we aren’t treating Moscow like the scourge it is. A Cold War mentality needs to come back and our government needs to stop taking Russian bribes and put Moscow back in its post-USSR grave.

Russia stopped being an actual threat after the Cold War. While a cold war mentality should have been kept, it should have been against China. That said, measures should have been taken to make sure Russia would only become weaker. Letting them fund terrorism and radicalism in Europe, control Elections in the US and -apparently- putting bounties on NATO soldiers, for example, was a stupid move.
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:58 am

Nuroblav wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Johnson banging on about leaving on "Australia terms" again. Such an annoying phrase to use.

Leaving on oven-ready Australia terms while we send the virus packing?


It just smacks of Dominic Cummings, don't say no deal say Australia terms.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:31 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Johnson banging on about leaving on "Australia terms" again. Such an annoying phrase to use.


Appreciating the subtle beauty of Aussie rules brexball requires the understanding that it is less traditional sport than it is esoteric ritual.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Britannia Maior » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:35 am

North German Realm wrote:
Britannia Maior wrote:
It wouldn’t surprise me and it annoys me that we aren’t treating Moscow like the scourge it is. A Cold War mentality needs to come back and our government needs to stop taking Russian bribes and put Moscow back in its post-USSR grave.

Russia stopped being an actual threat after the Cold War. While a cold war mentality should have been kept, it should have been against China. That said, measures should have been taken to make sure Russia would only become weaker. Letting them fund terrorism and radicalism in Europe, control Elections in the US and -apparently- putting bounties on NATO soldiers, for example, was a stupid move.


Prometheism should’ve become NATO policy even after the Cold War “ended”, and now their mistake is biting us all in the arse. I suppose the most I can hope for is the Russian oligarchs fighting amongst themselves and fragmenting until a new “great leader” arises from them who must then be put down.
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| The Times | Borders predicted to reopen early next year at the latest, HM Government announced in policy update to Parliament; reopening to be gradual with the “most trustworthy” countries to be included first before any others. // Worker's unions across the Commonwealth to be broken up and reorganised under new policy promoting guild-like and more local unions. // Russian-British man renounces Russian citizenship, publicly denounces former homeland for crimes against peace and humanity.

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Postby New Bremerton » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:37 am

Britannia Maior wrote:Jonathan Pie released a new video titled “WOKE Utopia”. Thoughts?

I personally agree with him here, but I thought I’d share it in case any of you lot wanted something to discuss.


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