UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Vassenor]

But it was the Tory Government that latched on to it as a way to show their support to the NHS, rather than actually putting more money into it. And with them now saying student nurses did nothing during the corona-virus is a betrayal to them saying they support the NHS.

This is why I didn't clap for the NHS, because I support them by not voting Tory.

We're going to get 50000 new nurses because of the tories.

If you believe that I've got some prime ocean view property in Colorado to sell you.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

We're going to get 50000 new nurses because of the tories.

Hahahahahahahah!

and 40 new hospitals

[The Nihilistic view]

The happy clappy stuff wasn't a Tory idea. It was thought up by some random Dutch woman nothing to do with the government at all. It was probably Blaat in disguise, I fully expect to find a sheep inside that woman!

But it was the Tory Government that latched on to it as a way to show their support to the NHS, rather than actually putting more money into it. And with them now saying student nurses did nothing during the corona-virus is a betrayal to them saying they support the NHS.

This is why I didn't clap for the NHS, because I support them by not voting Tory.

I think the opposite are the first and main motives really because I think the negative press if they had just ignored it was the reason they did it. You do that sort of thing in the public space because you have too. I dont think there is some master plan to use it was a smoke screen just a simple PR calculation that if we don't support it people will say why not and thats really negative.

I didn't clap because I thought it was a stupid gesture with no real meaning. Would have been much more meaningful to actually send a letter or something nice up to the hospital. Really spend some of your time or money rather than just pay lipservice. You could label that argument at everybody who didn't do anything more not just the government. How many people clapped but did nothing else. If you really value them then fork out something yourself rather than do a bit of clapping. That is not exclusively the government's job, if you want to foster a functioning society with people helping people that is your job too.

I sent an M&S chocolate/biscuit gift thingy to the department that look after my Granny at the cardiology department that keep her heart failure in check when I decided that would be more meaningful than standing out side for 30 seconds doing a bit of clapping.

Oh and my Mum told me she broke a perfectly good wooden spoon on a pan. Pan banging is bad for the environment!

[Vassenor]

Hahahahahahahah!

and 40 new hospitals

And that's compared to how many hospitals closed by the Conservatives?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

and 40 new hospitals

And that's compared to how many hospitals closed by the Conservatives?

They were old hospitals. These are new hospitals. Much better.

[Celritannia]

But it was the Tory Government that latched on to it as a way to show their support to the NHS, rather than actually putting more money into it. And with them now saying student nurses did nothing during the corona-virus is a betrayal to them saying they support the NHS.

This is why I didn't clap for the NHS, because I support them by not voting Tory.

I think the opposite are the first and main motives really because I think the negative press if they had just ignored it was the reason they did it. You do that sort of thing in the public space because you have too. I dont think there is some master plan to use it was a smoke screen just a simple PR calculation that if we don't support it people will say why not and thats really negative.

I didn't clap because I thought it was a stupid gesture with no real meaning. Would have been much more meaningful to actually send a letter or something nice up to the hospital. Really spend some of your time or money rather than just pay lipservice. You could label that argument at everybody who didn't do anything more not just the government. How many people clapped but did nothing else. If you really value them then fork out something yourself rather than do a bit of clapping. That is not exclusively the government's job, if you want to foster a functioning society with people helping people that is your job too.

I sent an M&S chocolate/biscuit gift thingy to the department that look after my Granny at the cardiology department that keep her heart failure in check when I decided that would be more meaningful than standing out side for 30 seconds doing a bit of clapping.

Oh and my Mum told me she broke a perfectly good wooden spoon on a pan. Pan banging is bad for the environment!

So you also disagree with increasing pay for NHS workers and taking on these student nurses full time?

[Celritannia]

And that's compared to how many hospitals closed by the Conservatives?

They were old hospitals. These are new hospitals. Much better.

Incorrect, again.

Unless you have evidence to say they have built 40 new hospitals.

[Nuroblav]

But it was the Tory Government that latched on to it as a way to show their support to the NHS, rather than actually putting more money into it. And with them now saying student nurses did nothing during the corona-virus is a betrayal to them saying they support the NHS.

This is why I didn't clap for the NHS, because I support them by not voting Tory.

I think the opposite are the first and main motives really because I think the negative press if they had just ignored it was the reason they did it. You do that sort of thing in the public space because you have too. I dont think there is some master plan to use it was a smoke screen just a simple PR calculation that if we don't support it people will say why not and thats really negative.

I didn't clap because I thought it was a stupid gesture with no real meaning. Would have been much more meaningful to actually send a letter or something nice up to the hospital. Really spend some of your time or money rather than just pay lipservice. You could label that argument at everybody who didn't do anything more not just the government. How many people clapped but did nothing else. If you really value them then fork out something yourself rather than do a bit of clapping. That is not exclusively the government's job, if you want to foster a functioning society with people helping people that is your job too.

I sent an M&S chocolate/biscuit gift thingy to the department that look after my Granny at the cardiology department that keep her heart failure in check when I decided that would be more meaningful than standing out side for 30 seconds doing a bit of clapping.

Oh and my Mum told me she broke a perfectly good wooden spoon on a pan. Pan banging is bad for the environment!

Pretty much this. I just didn't see the point of clapping for the NHS. Sure they need our support, but it does then make wonder what contribution slapping ourselves on our hands actually makes towards our national health service...

[The Nihilistic view]

I think the opposite are the first and main motives really because I think the negative press if they had just ignored it was the reason they did it. You do that sort of thing in the public space because you have too. I dont think there is some master plan to use it was a smoke screen just a simple PR calculation that if we don't support it people will say why not and thats really negative.

I didn't clap because I thought it was a stupid gesture with no real meaning. Would have been much more meaningful to actually send a letter or something nice up to the hospital. Really spend some of your time or money rather than just pay lipservice. You could label that argument at everybody who didn't do anything more not just the government. How many people clapped but did nothing else. If you really value them then fork out something yourself rather than do a bit of clapping. That is not exclusively the government's job, if you want to foster a functioning society with people helping people that is your job too.

I sent an M&S chocolate/biscuit gift thingy to the department that look after my Granny at the cardiology department that keep her heart failure in check when I decided that would be more meaningful than standing out side for 30 seconds doing a bit of clapping.

Oh and my Mum told me she broke a perfectly good wooden spoon on a pan. Pan banging is bad for the environment!

So you also disagree with increasing pay for NHS workers and taking on these student nurses full time?

I disagree that just working in a health profession automatically makes one a virtuous sacrid cow.

There are plenty of bad nurses and doctors just like there are plenty of bad accountants, journalists and farmers. If you were to say we should introduce a performance based pay element on top of basic pay you might have an argument. Blanket pay increases just because they are nurses say absolutely not, there are terrible nurses like there are terrible everything else.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

They were old hospitals. These are new hospitals. Much better.

Incorrect, again.

Unless you have evidence to say they have built 40 new hospitals.

You can't build hospitals quick unless you're china. We're not.

[Vassenor]

Incorrect, again.

Unless you have evidence to say they have built 40 new hospitals.

You can't build hospitals quick unless you're china. We're not.

So how does "40 new hospitals", which has already been shown to be a bullshit claim on its own, compare to the number of hospitals closed? Because if you close fifty hospitals then open forty, we're still down ten.

[Celritannia]

So you also disagree with increasing pay for NHS workers and taking on these student nurses full time?

I disagree that just working in a health profession automatically makes one a virtuous sacrid cow.

There are plenty of bad nurses and doctors just like there are plenty of bad accountants, journalists and farmers. If you were to say we should introduce a performance based pay element on top of basic pay you might have an argument. Blanket pay increases just because they are nurses say absolutely not, there are terrible nurses like there are terrible everything else.

No one is saying that, but the NHS is underfunded, that is a fact.

Makes no excuse, since they are essential, and with leaving the EU, a lot of the doctors and nurses from the EU countries are going home, the UK will have a shortage. I mean there was a shortage of medical workers before hand, but now it will become worse.

In fact, the NHS was underfunded and understaffed before the crisis started.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

You can't build hospitals quick unless you're china. We're not.

So how does "40 new hospitals", which has already been shown to be a bullshit claim on its own, compare to the number of hospitals closed? Because if you close fifty hospitals then open forty, we're still down ten.

Only if an old hospital is worth as much as a new hospital.

[Celritannia]

Incorrect, again.

Unless you have evidence to say they have built 40 new hospitals.

You can't build hospitals quick unless you're china. We're not.

Then your comment is incorrect.

[Vassenor]

So how does "40 new hospitals", which has already been shown to be a bullshit claim on its own, compare to the number of hospitals closed? Because if you close fifty hospitals then open forty, we're still down ten.

Only if an old hospital is worth as much as a new hospital.

You're just going to keep dodging the point, aren't you. Why don't you prove that the proposed new hospitals will deliver the capability lost then?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Only if an old hospital is worth as much as a new hospital.

You're just going to keep dodging the point, aren't you. Why don't you prove that the proposed new hospitals will deliver the capability lost then?

Well, as the government is known to care about the nhs, it wouldn't deliberately make it worse.

[Celritannia]

You're just going to keep dodging the point, aren't you. Why don't you prove that the proposed new hospitals will deliver the capability lost then?

Well, as the government is known to care about the nhs, it wouldn't deliberately make it worse.

>Tories
>Care about NHS

Hahahaha!

[The Nihilistic view]

I disagree that just working in a health profession automatically makes one a virtuous sacrid cow.

There are plenty of bad nurses and doctors just like there are plenty of bad accountants, journalists and farmers. If you were to say we should introduce a performance based pay element on top of basic pay you might have an argument. Blanket pay increases just because they are nurses say absolutely not, there are terrible nurses like there are terrible everything else.

No one is saying that, but the NHS is underfunded, that is a fact.

Makes no excuse, since they are essential, and with leaving the EU, a lot of the doctors and nurses from the EU countries are going home, the UK will have a shortage. I mean there was a shortage of medical workers before hand, but now it will become worse.

There is a huge ammount of waste in the NHS, until you eliminate a good chunk of that you can't say that. Lets just say you pay every NHS worker a blanket £2000 more, that would cost £2.8bn. Most estimates and reports reckon between £5-8bn is wasted every year by the NHS.

Is the NHS too large and unwieldy, is it trying to do too much? Should some things be split off into smaller organisations. Should healthcare become more localised, would that cut waste?

How far would eliminating that waste go? Would it really take any more than is already promised this parliment if you did claw back the waste?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Well, as the government is known to care about the nhs, it wouldn't deliberately make it worse.

>Tories
>Care about NHS

Hahahaha!

Sometimes it's better if services are concentrated in a smaller number of locations.

[Celritannia]

No one is saying that, but the NHS is underfunded, that is a fact.

Makes no excuse, since they are essential, and with leaving the EU, a lot of the doctors and nurses from the EU countries are going home, the UK will have a shortage. I mean there was a shortage of medical workers before hand, but now it will become worse.

There is a huge ammount of waste in the NHS, until you eliminate a good chunk of that you can't say that. Lets just say you pay every NHS worker a blanket £2000 more, that would cost £2.8bn. Most estimates and reports reckon between £5-8bn is wasted every year by the NHS.

Is the NHS too large and unwieldy, is it trying to do too much? Should some things be split off into smaller organisations. Should healthcare become more localised, would that cut waste?

How far would eliminating that waste go? Would it really take any more than is already promised this parliment if you did claw back the waste?

And who is responsible for the NHS? The Tory Government. Are they doing anything about the waste? No.

Again, refusing to put blame on the actual body that oversees the NHS.

Actually, let's also look at the wasted projects by the Tory Government:

HS2,
The Prime Ministerial Plane,
Track and trace system,
A UK satellite system,
Brexit.

[Celritannia]

>Tories
>Care about NHS

Hahahaha!

Sometimes it's better if services are concentrated in a smaller number of locations.

So the NHS hospital land that is still being in use is okay to be sold?

How would you feel if the local council took away your family's housing bushiness while you are still using it?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Sometimes it's better if services are concentrated in a smaller number of locations.

So the NHS hospital land that is still being in use is okay to be sold?

How would you feel if the local council took away your family's housing bushiness while you are still using it?

We'd quite rightly sue them, and since such an act is illegal in the UK, we'd win. The government owns the nhs hospital land, for the most part.

[Celritannia]

So the NHS hospital land that is still being in use is okay to be sold?

How would you feel if the local council took away your family's housing bushiness while you are still using it?

We'd quite rightly sue them, and since such an act is illegal in the UK, we'd win. The government owns the nhs hospital land, for the most part.

And is in use by NHS England.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

We'd quite rightly sue them, and since such an act is illegal in the UK, we'd win. The government owns the nhs hospital land, for the most part.

And is in use by NHS England.

You mean an arms-length body which manages oversight and allocation?

[Celritannia]

And is in use by NHS England.

You mean an arms-length body which manages oversight and allocation?

It is still used by NHS England. Splitting hairs does not disrupt that.