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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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The worst bus company imaginable
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Founded: Jun 25, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby The worst bus company imaginable » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:28 am

ok

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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:28 am

Kragholm Free States wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Odd because she was one of the people that thought the antisemitism issue should have been dealt with more quickly.

Stinks of Starmer seizing the tiniest of opportunities to take his old leadership rival down a peg.

Nah, what it is is an indication of how this kinda shit isn't ok any more - whereas Corbyn would've tolerated it, Starmer is effecting real change in this regard. Anti-semitism and promotion of antisemitic tropes and conspiracy theories has never been ok. The Labour Party under Keir Starmer is finally of that opinion.
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Philjia
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Postby Philjia » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:37 am

Definitely a case of Starmer looking for an excuse to get rid of the foremost lefty in his cabinet, but RLB definitely left herself exposed by spreading weird, probably spurious stuff about the Israelis. Quite why people constantly feel the need to invent things about the Israeli government to make them look worse is sort of baffling to me, there's already plenty of stuff they've actually done and are currently doing that's heinous enough.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:40 am

Vassenor wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do we know yet what RLB shared so we can judge for ourselves?


From what I've seen, an Amnesty International article about how US police are this violent because they're aping Israeli tactics or something.

Famous anti-Semites, Amnesty International.


The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Kragholm Free States wrote:Stinks of Starmer seizing the tiniest of opportunities to take his old leadership rival down a peg.

Nah, what it is is an indication of how this kinda shit isn't ok any more - whereas Corbyn would've tolerated it, Starmer is effecting real change in this regard. Anti-semitism and promotion of antisemitic tropes and conspiracy theories has never been ok. The Labour Party under Keir Starmer is finally of that opinion.

What happened to those Blairites who were sabotaging the party under Corbyn? Weren't they deliberately not following up on anti-Semitism within the party in the hopes of making Jez look as bad as possible?
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:47 am

Ifreann wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
From what I've seen, an Amnesty International article about how US police are this violent because they're aping Israeli tactics or something.

Famous anti-Semites, Amnesty International.


Basically Nazis I hear.
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:58 am

Good riddance.
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Celritannia
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Postby Celritannia » Thu Jun 25, 2020 8:58 am

Purgatio wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Depending on the circumstance. I don't agree with hitting anyone for any reason.
But a hard tap is hardly a reason to keep going on about the action that happened a few years ago.


Lol are we really trying to trivialise an act of domestic violence against an intimate partner as an "action that happened a few years ago"? I mean, this is minimising language at its finest. Calling DV an "action that happened a few years ago" is pretty on par with Brock Turner's father's infamous "20 minutes of action" quote.

Phrasing matters. DV against intimate partners is SERIOUS, and should be taken seriously. Calling it an "action that happened a few years ago" is such a trivialising characterisation of the impact it has on victims.


If it was out of character by the person in question, and the person attacked holds no lasting damaging psychological or physical concerns, then what else is needed to mention?

She certainly tapped him hard, not heavily, and it was out of character for her.

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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:01 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do we know yet what RLB shared so we can judge for ourselves?

She retweeted this article, with the caption “Maxine Peake is an absolute diamond”
Last edited by Gravlen on Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:10 am

Gravlen wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do we know yet what RLB shared so we can judge for ourselves?

She retweeted this article, with the caption “Maxine Peake is an absolute diamond”


Hmmm, sacking her seems an over reaction.
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:12 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Gravlen wrote:She retweeted this article, with the caption “Maxine Peake is an absolute diamond”


Hmmm, sacking her seems an over reaction.

It was an excuse to get rid of her.

Good, Starmer is becoming ruthless, then he can beat the tories.

You have to fight fire with fire.
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Hirota
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Postby Hirota » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:17 am

Gravlen wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do we know yet what RLB shared so we can judge for ourselves?

She retweeted this article, with the caption “Maxine Peake is an absolute diamond”
Thanks, that tallies with what the guardian is reporting. Don't see a single mention of amnesty international in that article, so dunno where Vass pulled that from.
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:29 am

Also now we know what the Dead Cat Jet looks like.

I don't see what was wrong with the grey.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:32 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Famous anti-Semites, Amnesty International.


Basically Nazis I hear.

Am-Nazi International.


Gravlen wrote:
An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Do we know yet what RLB shared so we can judge for ourselves?

She retweeted this article, with the caption “Maxine Peake is an absolute diamond”

“Systemic racism is a global issue,” [Maxine Peake] adds. “The tactics used by the police in America, kneeling on George Floyd’s neck, that was learnt from seminars with Israeli secret services.” (A spokesperson for the Israeli police has denied this, stating that “there is no tactic or protocol that calls to put pressure on the neck or airway”.)

Much anti-Semite. Many hatred. Wow.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:59 am

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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
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Hirota
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Postby Hirota » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:01 am

Vassenor wrote:Also we're not allowed to blame the government for fucking up the response to COVID: JRM is now literally blaming the weather for the spread of the virus.
Except he literally isn't.

From the article:

"Even things as simple as the weather may have influenced how the virus has spread, and so may the practices of individual cultures and societies."

He's making the perfectly valid point that a range of factors could have had an impact. That's common sense. The independents clickbait headline and your failure to read the article isn't.




As for RLB, it seems excessive, but as soon as Labour's far left embraced cancel culture it was inevitable it would be a tactic used against the far left.

If RLB was given the opportunity to delete the tweet on twatter, then Starmer couldn't do much else or look weak.
Last edited by Hirota on Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:02 am

Hirota wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Also we're not allowed to blame the government for fucking up the response to COVID: JRM is now literally blaming the weather for the spread of the virus.
Except he literally isn't.

From the article:

"Even things as simple as the weather may have influenced how the virus has spread, and so may the practices of individual cultures and societies."

He's making the perfectly valid point that a range of factors could have had an impact. That's common sense. The independents clickbait headline and your failure to read the article isn't.

We should keep a tally of how many times she does that
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:12 am

Hirota wrote:
Vassenor wrote:Also we're not allowed to blame the government for fucking up the response to COVID: JRM is now literally blaming the weather for the spread of the virus.
Except he literally isn't.

From the article:

"Even things as simple as the weather may have influenced how the virus has spread, and so may the practices of individual cultures and societies."

He's making the perfectly valid point that a range of factors could have had an impact. That's common sense. The independents clickbait headline and your failure to read the article isn't.




As for RLB, it seems excessive, but as soon as Labour's far left embraced cancel culture it was inevitable it would be a tactic used against the far left.

If RLB was given the opportunity to delete the tweet on twatter, then Starmer couldn't do much else or look weak.


He's literally going "stop using other countries to blame our poor response because it could be all these things instead". The whole thing was about shutting down an attempt to critique the government's response in the house.
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Hirota
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:12 am

Agarntrop wrote:
Hirota wrote:Except he literally isn't.

From the article:

"Even things as simple as the weather may have influenced how the virus has spread, and so may the practices of individual cultures and societies."

He's making the perfectly valid point that a range of factors could have had an impact. That's common sense. The independents clickbait headline and your failure to read the article isn't.

We should keep a tally of how many times she does that
I'd rather post on each post on its own merits (or lack thereof). If other forumgoers want to draw conclusions from a perceived pattern of behaviour that's up to them.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
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Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:14 am

Ifreann wrote:What happened to those Blairites who were sabotaging the party under Corbyn? Weren't they deliberately not following up on anti-Semitism within the party in the hopes of making Jez look as bad as possible?

Almost all of them were already out of the party - plus others have left since, from what I can tell. Regardless, that 'report' has largely been dismissed as what it was - pathetic score settling by the outgoing Corbyn team, white washing his lot whilst just going 'no ur the antisemites' to the rest of the party.

Which seems to be the tactic the Corbynistas are engaging in on twitter after this sacking - accusing Keir Starmer of being the antisemitic one.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:15 am

Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Hirota
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:15 am

Vassenor wrote:
Hirota wrote:Except he literally isn't.

From the article:

"Even things as simple as the weather may have influenced how the virus has spread, and so may the practices of individual cultures and societies."

He's making the perfectly valid point that a range of factors could have had an impact. That's common sense. The independents clickbait headline and your failure to read the article isn't.




As for RLB, it seems excessive, but as soon as Labour's far left embraced cancel culture it was inevitable it would be a tactic used against the far left.

If RLB was given the opportunity to delete the tweet on twatter, then Starmer couldn't do much else or look weak.


He's literally going "stop using other countries to blame our poor response because it could be all these things instead". The whole thing was about shutting down an attempt to critique the government's response in the house.
I don't think you know what the word literally means.

But if that's what he was doing I'd be inclined to agree with him for now. I'd rather make a critique fully informed than half baked. I imagine covid-19 and the various responses by governments are going to be crawled over for years to come.
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Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:20 am



So is the MoD going to pull in one of the Surge Fleet to replace it as a tanker or is the RAF one airframe down there?
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Ifreann
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:22 am

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What happened to those Blairites who were sabotaging the party under Corbyn? Weren't they deliberately not following up on anti-Semitism within the party in the hopes of making Jez look as bad as possible?

Almost all of them were already out of the party - plus others have left since, from what I can tell. Regardless, that 'report' has largely been dismissed as what it was - pathetic score settling by the outgoing Corbyn team, white washing his lot whilst just going 'no ur the antisemites' to the rest of the party.

Dismissing reports of internal sabotage doesn't sound like a very smart move.

Which seems to be the tactic the Corbynistas are engaging in on twitter after this sacking - accusing Keir Starmer of being the antisemitic one.

I suppose it could be seen as anti-Semitic to read a sentence about Israeli policing tactics as an attack on the Jewish people, as if one believes that all Jews would in fact be responsible for any wrongdoing by Israel. Bit of a stretch to call Starmer an anti-Semite, though, seems far more likely he's just using this as an excuse to purge a political opponent.
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:23 am

Ifreann wrote:
The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:Almost all of them were already out of the party - plus others have left since, from what I can tell. Regardless, that 'report' has largely been dismissed as what it was - pathetic score settling by the outgoing Corbyn team, white washing his lot whilst just going 'no ur the antisemites' to the rest of the party.

Dismissing reports of internal sabotage doesn't sound like a very smart move.

Which seems to be the tactic the Corbynistas are engaging in on twitter after this sacking - accusing Keir Starmer of being the antisemitic one.

I suppose it could be seen as anti-Semitic to read a sentence about Israeli policing tactics as an attack on the Jewish people, as if one believes that all Jews would in fact be responsible for any wrongdoing by Israel. Bit of a stretch to call Starmer an anti-Semite, though, seems far more likely he's just using this as an excuse to purge a political opponent.


Problem is that "Israel Bad = Antisemitism" is exactly what Corbs kept being smeared with.
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Andsed
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:24 am


Honestly the fact that some people can’t understand that just because restrictions have been eased does not mean the pandemic is over and they should still be practicing social distancing is worrying.
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