UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I could only be proud of a free country. That means that I can't have national pride at the moment.

name one (1) year where england was actually a free country

67 million BCE. When there were no humans at all obviously.

[Vassenor]

Lockdown prevented around half a million deaths. Very weird that you'd be proud of a country with an extra half million corpses in it...

I could only be proud of a free country. That means that I can't have national pride at the moment.

Hard to be proud when you're dying of something that could've been prevented if you'd not been so damn pig headed about it.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Councils to get £105m more to help prevent rough sleeping returning to the streets


BBC commits £100m to increasing diversity on TV

The similar numbers make me wonder if we have our priorities right.
Yeah I know the BBC isn't the government.
I'm more just thinking the government is squandering a once in a lifetime opportunity to tackle rough sleeping.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I could only be proud of a free country. That means that I can't have national pride at the moment.

name one (1) year where england was actually a free country

Name one (1) time when I have ever expressed national pride. Unless your country provides maximum freedoms, national pride is very silly.

[Purgatio]

name one (1) year where england was actually a free country

Name one (1) time when I have ever expressed national pride. Unless your country provides maximum freedoms, national pride is very silly.

Lmao what are "maximum freedoms"? What you mean to say is "no lockdowns, quaratines, stay-at-home, social distancing or any reasonable measures in response to a global pandemic", right?

Just say what you mean, dude. No need for obfuscating euphemisms here.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Name one (1) time when I have ever expressed national pride. Unless your country provides maximum freedoms, national pride is very silly.

Lmao what are "maximum freedoms"? What you mean to say is "no lockdowns, quaratines, stay-at-home, social distancing or any reasonable measures in response to a global pandemic", right?

Just say what you mean, dude. No need for obfuscating euphemisms here.

But it doesn't just extend to covid. I don't support restrictions on drugs, on prostitution, on firearms, on imigration, and I think prisons of any kind are evil. You know what maximum freedoms mean in my case.

[Purgatio]

Lmao what are "maximum freedoms"? What you mean to say is "no lockdowns, quaratines, stay-at-home, social distancing or any reasonable measures in response to a global pandemic", right?

Just say what you mean, dude. No need for obfuscating euphemisms here.

But it doesn't just extend to covid. I don't support restrictions on drugs, on prostitution, on firearms, on imigration, and I think prisons of any kind are evil. You know what maximum freedoms mean in my case.

All I'm seeing is your support for "freedom" is pretty narrow and selective. Like, you support the freedom to walk around public spaces, infecting others, not wearing a mask, worsening a health crisis. You don't really support the freedom for innocent people to not get sick and die from said illness. I find that interesting.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

But it doesn't just extend to covid. I don't support restrictions on drugs, on prostitution, on firearms, on imigration, and I think prisons of any kind are evil. You know what maximum freedoms mean in my case.

All I'm seeing is your support for "freedom" is pretty narrow and selective. Like, you support the freedom to walk around public spaces, infecting others, not wearing a mask, worsening a health crisis. You don't really support the freedom for innocent people to not get sick and die from said illness. I find that interesting.

I think that the fact you can get sick from illnesses, air pollution, traffic accidents etc is just a bi-product of living around other people.

[Purgatio]

All I'm seeing is your support for "freedom" is pretty narrow and selective. Like, you support the freedom to walk around public spaces, infecting others, not wearing a mask, worsening a health crisis. You don't really support the freedom for innocent people to not get sick and die from said illness. I find that interesting.

I think that the fact you can get sick from illnesses, air pollution, traffic accidents etc is just a bi-product of living around other people.

Lol you could say the exact same thing about assault, battery, homicides, sexual harassment etc.

"Just put up with it, you're living around other people".

Recklessly infecting other people with a potentially-deadly illness is, morally, the same as battery. If you consider that "freedom", then it sounds like you really don't believe in basic concepts like personhood or bodily integrity or self-ownership.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I think that the fact you can get sick from illnesses, air pollution, traffic accidents etc is just a bi-product of living around other people.

Lol you could say the exact same thing about assault, battery, homicides, sexual harassment etc.

"Just put up with it, you're living around other people".

Recklessly infecting other people with a potentially-deadly illness is, morally, the same as battery. If you consider that "freedom", then it sounds like you really don't believe in basic concepts like personhood or bodily integrity or self-ownership.

I don't see them as being the same at all. First off, you can happily go around doing your own thing without any knowledge of it, so it shouldn't affect your moral compass. In addition, there's obviously no proveable intent, it's a crime of recklessness at the very most.

[Purgatio]

Lol you could say the exact same thing about assault, battery, homicides, sexual harassment etc.

"Just put up with it, you're living around other people".

Recklessly infecting other people with a potentially-deadly illness is, morally, the same as battery. If you consider that "freedom", then it sounds like you really don't believe in basic concepts like personhood or bodily integrity or self-ownership.

I don't see them as being the same at all. First off, you can happily go around doing your own thing without any knowledge of it, so it shouldn't affect your moral compass. In addition, there's obviously no proveable intent, it's a crime of recklessness at the very most.

.....which is a thing. Come on, you're a law student. You should know that most OAPA crimes are crimes of recklessness, not intent.

So what's your point? "It's a crime of recklessness at the very most", okay and so? That makes reckless infection of other's with a disease morally okay? Get real.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Come on, you're a law student.

This is what worries me. GVH may one day be in a position to put some of his insane ideas into practice.

[Purgatio]

Come on, you're a law student.

This is what worries me. GVH may one day be in a position to put some of his insane ideas into practice.

I mean he could argue these things before a court all he wants. It'll only work if many judges consistently accept it and allow the common law to evolve in that direction that GVH wants.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

I don't see them as being the same at all. First off, you can happily go around doing your own thing without any knowledge of it, so it shouldn't affect your moral compass. In addition, there's obviously no proveable intent, it's a crime of recklessness at the very most.

.....which is a thing. Come on, you're a law student. You should know that most OAPA crimes are crimes of recklessness, not intent.

So what's your point? "It's a crime of recklessness at the very most", okay and so? That makes reckless infection of other's with a disease morally okay? Get real.

Morals don't really come into it.
If I knew I had it, I probably wouldn't go out and infect everybody. It turns out I have had it without showing symptoms, either that or antibody tests are based on random number generators.
Do you believe lockdowns are at all proportionate, given the low mortality rate?

[Purgatio]

.....which is a thing. Come on, you're a law student. You should know that most OAPA crimes are crimes of recklessness, not intent.

So what's your point? "It's a crime of recklessness at the very most", okay and so? That makes reckless infection of other's with a disease morally okay? Get real.

Morals don't really come into it.
If I knew I had it, I probably wouldn't go out and infect everybody. It turns out I have had it without showing symptoms, either that or antibody tests are based on random number generators.
Do you believe lockdowns are at all proportionate, given the low mortality rate?

You're literally ignoring the argument. Most offences against the person are offences of recklessness, not intent. Assault. Battery. Malicious wounding. Assault occasioning ABH. The mens rea for all of these is recklessness. Because morally, its still a terrible thing to do to knowingly expose another person to a risk of physical injury to their person.

A good person, a virtuous person, a person who isn't completely selfish, understands that its not only wrong when you intentionally injure someone. Its also wrong to unintentionally but recklessly injure another person. Thats exactly what you're doing when you're going around infecting someone with a virus because you're not taking basic precautions.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Lockdown prevented around half a million deaths. Very weird that you'd be proud of a country with an extra half million corpses in it...

I could only be proud of a free country. That means that I can't have national pride at the moment.

lmao

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Are people going to give their real name and address when asked when going in to a pub or restaurant?

I think quite a lot will lie.

[The Blaatschapen]

Are people going to give their real name and address when asked when going in to a pub or restaurant?

I think quite a lot will lie.

Address? No. Email and name, yes. Then again, the places I went to where I had to do that, I frequent on a regular basis, so they already know my name

Cheers!

[The New California Republic]

Are people going to give their real name and address when asked when going in to a pub or restaurant?

I think quite a lot will lie.

And surely doing such a thing will necessitate an increase in contact between people that otherwise wouldn't happen, for staff to ask them in the first place?

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Are people going to give their real name and address when asked when going in to a pub or restaurant?

I think quite a lot will lie.

And surely doing such a thing will necessitate an increase in contact between people that otherwise wouldn't happen, for staff to ask them in the first place?

Perhaps you are supposed to shout it from 1m plus away... obviously nobody would have anything to worry about from strangers getting hold of their personal details.

[The New California Republic]

And surely doing such a thing will necessitate an increase in contact between people that otherwise wouldn't happen, for staff to ask them in the first place?

Perhaps you are supposed to shout it from 1m plus away... obviously nobody would have anything to worry about from strangers getting hold of their personal details.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Perhaps you are supposed to shout it from 1m plus away... obviously nobody would have anything to worry about from strangers getting hold of their personal details.

Somehow I doubt pubs are registered as data handlers for the purposes of the Data Protection Act.

[The New California Republic]

Somehow I doubt pubs are registered as data handlers for the purposes of the Data Protection Act.

Ironically in the past I have tried handing out CVs and cover letters for jobs, and the Manager has flatly refused, citing that they cannot hold info on me because of the Data Protection Act, yet giving many of the same deets to a barman is fine.

The mind boggles.

[Celritannia]

Lockdown prevented around half a million deaths. Very weird that you'd be proud of a country with an extra half million corpses in it...

I could only be proud of a free country. That means that I can't have national pride at the moment.

How the fuck do dead people enjoy freedom?

[Celritannia]

She is a vile woman.