UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Agarntrop]

Good evidence for most black Britons being detatched from reality in terms of their discussion of racism here;

Remember that study showing they are actually overrepresented on TV? (And, actually, they're *Heavily* overrepresented, because they're about 3% of the country and 20% of tv roles go to BAME, which is 15% of the population. Of the 20% of the roles, Black people are overrepresented there too relative to other BAME groups.).

Well it turns out 63% of Black Britons are still convinced they are underrepresented on TV.

This demonstrates that a supermajority of Black Britons base their discussions of racism around theoretical framework and political narrative and a victim complex, rather than their actual experiences or reality, contrary to what they like to claim.

Pure Ideology.

Or it's a result of ghettoisation. If you live in a community where most of the faces you see are BAME then it's understandable to thing that they represent more of the population than they do in reality.

And vice versa

[Ostroeuropa]

Good evidence for most black Britons being detatched from reality in terms of their discussion of racism here;

Remember that study showing they are actually overrepresented on TV? (And, actually, they're *Heavily* overrepresented, because they're about 3% of the country and 20% of tv roles go to BAME, which is 15% of the population. Of the 20% of the roles, Black people are overrepresented there too relative to other BAME groups.).

Well it turns out 63% of Black Britons are still convinced they are underrepresented on TV.

This demonstrates that a supermajority of Black Britons base their discussions of racism around theoretical framework and political narrative and a victim complex, rather than their actual experiences or reality, contrary to what they like to claim.

Pure Ideology.

Or it's a result of ghettoisation. If you live in a community where most of the faces you see are BAME then it's understandable to think that they represent more of the population than they do in reality.

If that were the case then why would people who live in heavily white communities vastly overestimate the amount of minorities in the country too?

[Hirota]

So whilst Labour head more towards a more moderate opposition under Starmerism, Layla Moran seem keen to mop up those momentum voters.

It's an interesting strategy. Labour was not realistically going to win an election being quite as far left as it was under Corbynism. But the Lib Dems might see an increase in their share of the vote if they try and pick up a few on the far left disenchanted by the failure of Corbynism to be voted into government and Labours subsequent step towards a more moderate approach.

But more likely it will just split the vote of those who will never vote Conservative.

[Philjia]

Good evidence for most black Britons being detatched from reality in terms of their discussion of racism here;

Remember that study showing they are actually overrepresented on TV? (And, actually, they're *Heavily* overrepresented, because they're about 3% of the country and 20% of tv roles go to BAME, which is 15% of the population. Of the 20% of the roles, Black people are overrepresented there too relative to other BAME groups.).

Well it turns out 63% of Black Britons are still convinced they are underrepresented on TV.

This demonstrates that a supermajority of Black Britons base their discussions of racism around theoretical framework and political narrative and a victim complex, rather than their actual experiences or reality, contrary to what they like to claim.

Pure Ideology.

BAME people are somewhat under represented in production, which I suspect may contribute to the UK's BAME population not feeling seen in spite of actually being seen. That, and the general tendency for people to be segregated into communities of other people who look like them distorting perception of our actual demography.

[The Huskar Social Union]

So whilst Labour head more towards a more moderate opposition under Starmerism, Layla Moran seem keen to mop up those momentum voters.

It's an interesting strategy. Labour was not realistically going to win an election being quite as far left as it was under Corbynism. But the Lib Dems might see an increase in their share of the vote if they try and pick up a few on the far left disenchanted by the failure of Corbynism to be voted into government and Labours subsequent step towards a more moderate approach.

But more likely it will just split the vote of those who will never vote Conservative.

Dont know why but I dont think the lib dems will do well under her

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

So whilst Labour head more towards a more moderate opposition under Starmerism, Layla Moran seem keen to mop up those momentum voters.

It's an interesting strategy. Labour was not realistically going to win an election being quite as far left as it was under Corbynism. But the Lib Dems might see an increase in their share of the vote if they try and pick up a few on the far left disenchanted by the failure of Corbynism to be voted into government and Labours subsequent step towards a more moderate approach.

But more likely it will just split the vote of those who will never vote Conservative.

Dont know why but I dont think the lib dems will do well under her

As someone who normally votes Liberal I hope she doesn't win the leadership contest.

[Major-Tom]

Dont know why but I dont think the lib dems will do well under her

As someone who normally votes Liberal I hope she doesn't win the leadership contest.

From a cursory glance, she looks a bit more interesting than Swinson or Farron.

[The Huskar Social Union]

As someone who normally votes Liberal I hope she doesn't win the leadership contest.

From a cursory glance, she looks a bit more interesting than Swinson or Farron.

I personally dont like her that much since she admitted to assaulting her former boyfriend. Especially when people called her stunning and brave on the shit hole that is twitter for admitting it.



now, wait for it..

[Fartsniffage]

Or it's a result of ghettoisation. If you live in a community where most of the faces you see are BAME then it's understandable to think that they represent more of the population than they do in reality.

If that were the case then why would people who live in heavily white communities vastly overestimate the amount of minorities in the country too?

[Philjia]

The most effective strategy for the Lib Dems would be to aggressively pursue Tory seats, then make a short term coalition with Labour to repeal key Tory policies and pass electoral reform. Electoral reform is also in most Labour member's interests, as it will allow the party to split up into groups that don't have to infight as much, without sacrificing overall electoral performance for left-of-Tory parties.

[Major-Tom]

From a cursory glance, she looks a bit more interesting than Swinson or Farron.

I personally dont like her that much since she admitted to assaulting her former boyfriend. Especially when people called her stunning and brave on the shit hole that is twitter for admitting it.



now, wait for it..

Woah, didn't see that.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I personally dont like her that much since she admitted to assaulting her former boyfriend. Especially when people called her stunning and brave on the shit hole that is twitter for admitting it.



now, wait for it..

Woah, didn't see that.

Charges were dropped but she slapped her boyfriend at the time over a cable


So as far as i am concerned fuck her.

[Ostroeuropa]

If that were the case then why would people who live in heavily white communities vastly overestimate the amount of minorities in the country too?

Right. And notice the thing you're arguing now.

That regardless of their personal experience, media narratives are what drive their perception, even when those narratives are completely divorced from reality. Pure ideology.

I'd argue left wing media and woke ideologues have caused a similar effect for the black population, constantly telling them about a problem that doesn't exist until they simply imagine it does. The same kind of disconnect from reality is in both, just on different topics, causing the same lack of comprehension of reality and statistics, the same lack of informed voters and citizens, just different manifestations of the same topic.

In the same way the racist narrative is divorced from reality and pure ideology, the current progressive anti-racist narrative is likewise.

They see enemies and problems everywhere even where they don't exist. Both of them. It's a slapfight between two schizophrenics over whose fairy is prettiest.

But notice we tell white racists that they're basically delusional fuckwits and treat them with contempt, noting that their reason for buying into this bollocks is their personal failings and so on, and we for some bizarre reason treat delusional black folk as though their delusions need to be taken seriously.

(Admittedly, this is exactly reversed on the far-right. Hence why the far-left progressives are just the expression of the same problem in a different way).


No matter how much right wing racists brainwash people, it isn't the case that there's "Too many minorities in the country", and no matter how much progressive racists brainwash people, it isn't the case that there's "Too many white people on television".

[The Archregimancy]

So whilst Labour head more towards a more moderate opposition under Starmerism, Layla Moran seem keen to mop up those momentum voters.

Hand on heart, and noting my known track record as a LibDem voter firmly opposed to both Corbyn and Momentum, I don't see how that interview is in any way 'mopping up Momentum voters'.

The statement that LibDem active membership is a bit old and white is self-evidently true to anyone who's a member of a constituency party outside of London. At the risk of using personal anecdote as evidence, we hardly have any members under 50 (I know of one) in my local constituency party, and all of us are white now that our one member of Sri Lankan heritage resigned after the local party refused to let him run for a local council seat on a platform of a local electoral pact with Labour (who had been approached, but said no). I know that other constituency parties are in a similar situation.

The tuition fees debacle hollowed out youth membership, which has had a long-term impact. Outside of Scotland, where we still maintain a traditional Highland rural vote, we've largely become a party of white middle class voters with university degrees over the age of 40; that's not a solid base for a political party. Any new leader will be looking to diversify the membership.

I think it likely true that Moran, were she to win the leadership (and I haven't decided how to vote yet; there are two other candidates), would move the party back towards (oversimplifying here) a Social Democrat centre-left position rather than the Liberal centre-right Orange Book position of the coalition years; but I've seen nothing to suggest that she'd move the party left of, say, Charles Kennedy.

That a centre-left LibDem party would find itself more actively competing for the same votes with a Starmer-led Labour Party is an entirely valid point; but....

But more likely it will just split the vote of those who will never vote Conservative.

So what else is new? Bears continue to defecate in woodland environments, and the Coptic Pope of Alexandria is a member of the Oriental Orthodox communion.

We can argue over whether that's in any way desirable; but it's hardly been a novelty over the last, say, 100 years of British politics.

[Celritannia]

If there was a need for England to have its own devolved government then yes. But does it really need one...?

Regional Devolved assemblies.
Cut number of MPs.

So here is a comment I posted as a response to this:

Lancashire superseding Yorkshire? How silly
I am a Yorkshireman, and we already have the best flag in the world

Yorkshire takes up majority of Northern England, and has a similar population size to Scotland XD
(Also, as a point of interest, the Tudor Rose is based on the union of the house of York and Lancaster under Henry VII)

I will admit, it is a great idea. I am a British federalist, but you should not do it based on population.

And there was actually a consideration for a federal Britain in the 1960s cited in the Redcliffe-Maud Report (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe-Maud_Report).

Following Christopher Clark's points:-

A Federal Great Britain and Northern Ireland would be based on the already established regions, I will also include my idea of what the capitals would be:

South East - Guildford
London - (Already has an Assembly)
North West - Manchester
East England - Flempton
West Midlands - Wolverhampton
South West* - Bristol
Yorkshire and the Humber - Leeds
East Midlands - Leicester
North East - Newcastle

*People in Cornwall may want their county to be a separate area, if this is the case, Truro would be the capital.

All of these cities are actual regional administrative cities of their respective areas.

The leaders of each executive would not be called Premier, and there would be no need for a Governor as Chris suggested. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have First Ministers and London has a Mayor.
If it was me, I would call each regional leader, Regional Executive Minister (or mayor).


Now, for Parliament. Where current MPs in the House Of Commons have their own constituencies, I would keep these but move them to the Regional Legislatures.
MPs in the Commons would then be elected based on the population of each County. This would lower MPs in the Commons and become more diverse.
(I also include the Northern Irish, Welsh and Scottish legislatures in this, removing their MPs as they are already represented at a constituent country level their constituents are not needed in the UK parliament. Their counties would be represented instead).
The House of Lords would be reformed, but it would not be elected, but the hereditary peers and clergy would be removed. It would be an Advisory Chamber, members appointed, much liked Life Peers are, for a 10 year term to give experienced advice on policy and scrutinise each legislature. Basically all what the HoL does now but much more like the Irish Senate.

(Also, I would also include the Isle of Mann, the Channel Isles and other British overseas territories into a Federal parliament)


But there is no need for Governors or Premiers, just applying what the UK has now but at a regional level.

And that is how you federate the UK. Well, also establishing a fully codified constitution setting out the powers of each member of Government (Executive, legislature and judiciary from local, county, regional, constituent-country (Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales, perhaps also establishing a Council of England for only English issues, but not an actual level of government) and the Monarchy).

So, that's how you federalise the UK

[Souseiseki]

If there was a need for England to have its own devolved government then yes. But does it really need one...?

in an ideal world england would have multiple devolved governments

can't have westminster totally ignoring you and not being arsed to spend a dime on you if you control your own spending *taps head*

[Salandriagado]

The Mighty Breakfast Baguette from Spar should be illegal.

I'm dead now. I've transitioned to my own version of purgatory.

Sat in my almost empty house on the laptop waiting to be picked up to go to my new house, but they shall only find a corpse, and it will be too heavy to move.

Who the fuck thought this was a breakfast baguette? I can barely move. Just sat here letting out cries of pain, the tv remote just out of reach so i'm forced to watch endless reruns of judge judy.

So much bacon, cheese, sausages, eggs, and potatoes.

In a baguette. Potatoes.

Do not send help, I'm afraid the responders will end up trapped in the room with me watching judge judy forever.

I guess it was a mighty baguette, it has bested me. I lay here slain.

Bah, lightweight. Near my parents house, there's a truck stop/greasy spoon space whose middle-sized breaksfast sandwich is like that. The big size is a similar length the the baguette, but circular. Also, their tea comes in pints or halves.

[Celritannia]

If there was a need for England to have its own devolved government then yes. But does it really need one...?

in an ideal world england would have multiple devolved governments

can't have westminster totally ignoring you and not being arsed to spend a dime on you if you control your own spending *taps head*

Royal Federation of Britain, GO GO GO.

[Fartsniffage]

The Mighty Breakfast Baguette from Spar should be illegal.

I'm dead now. I've transitioned to my own version of purgatory.

Sat in my almost empty house on the laptop waiting to be picked up to go to my new house, but they shall only find a corpse, and it will be too heavy to move.

Who the fuck thought this was a breakfast baguette? I can barely move. Just sat here letting out cries of pain, the tv remote just out of reach so i'm forced to watch endless reruns of judge judy.

So much bacon, cheese, sausages, eggs, and potatoes.

In a baguette. Potatoes.

Do not send help, I'm afraid the responders will end up trapped in the room with me watching judge judy forever.

I guess it was a mighty baguette, it has bested me. I lay here slain.

Bah, lightweight. Near my parents house, there's a truck stop/greasy spoon space whose middle-sized breaksfast sandwich is like that. The big size is a similar length the the baguette, but circular. Also, their tea comes in pints or halves.

Spar took over the NAAFI services on military bases back in the late 90's. I'm pretty sure their research on what kind of hot food is appropriate and desirable was based on squaddies burning 4,000 calories per day.

[The New California Republic]

Spar took over the NAAFI services on military bases back in the late 90's.

I loved the NAAFI. I used to go there all the time for things. I was sad when most of them were given the chop. I got a cool model bus out of the Ascension Island NAAFI.

[Fartsniffage]

Spar took over the NAAFI services on military bases back in the late 90's.

I loved the NAAFI. I used to go there all the time for things. I was sad when most of them were given the chop. I got a cool model bus out of the Ascension Island NAAFI.

You were a RAF brat?

[The New California Republic]

I loved the NAAFI. I used to go there all the time for things. I was sad when most of them were given the chop. I got a cool model bus out of the Ascension Island NAAFI.

You were a RAF brat?

"Brat" is a bit strong, but yes.

[The Blaatschapen]

I loved the NAAFI. I used to go there all the time for things. I was sad when most of them were given the chop. I got a cool model bus out of the Ascension Island NAAFI.

You were a RAF brat?

And I'm a KL brat (dutch royal army)

[The Archbishopric of York]

The thing that most distinguishes the United Kingdom from other nations is the historic continuity of its governing institutions and system of laws, which has lent itself to the quintessentially English principle that both the people and the Crown (i.e. the government) are bound by the law in their actions. In every case where a dictatorship has been able to establish itself in a modern country, it has began by undermining the principle of rule of law. This is what those who advocate for a "federal UK" or the creation of a codified constitution that contradicts the existing constitutional order seek to do here; by overthrowing long-standing constitutional conventions such as the principle that no parliament may bind a future parliament in its actions, they would toss out the whole principle that the government is bound by the law in its actions. This is fundamentally no different to what the Bolsheviks did in Russia; to break the historic continuity of government, something Lord Salisbury rightly said it was better to suffer almost any political evil than to do, is tantamount to revolution. To abandon the rule of law is to open the door to arbitrary rule and tyranny.

[The Islands of Versilia]

The thing that most distinguishes the United Kingdom from other nations is the historic continuity of its governing institutions and system of laws, which has lent itself to the quintessentially English principle that both the people and the Crown (i.e. the government) are bound by the law in their actions. In every case where a dictatorship has been able to establish itself in a modern country, it has began by undermining the principle of rule of law. This is what those who advocate for a "federal UK" or the creation of a codified constitution that contradicts the existing constitutional order seek to do here; by overthrowing long-standing constitutional conventions such as the principle that no parliament may bind a future parliament in its actions, they would toss out the whole principle that the government is bound by the law in its actions. This is fundamentally no different to what the Bolsheviks did in Russia; to break the historic continuity of government, something Lord Salisbury rightly said it was better to suffer almost any political evil than to do, is tantamount to revolution. To abandon the rule of law is to open the door to arbitrary rule and tyranny.

That’s really well said and will admit that it makes me honestly rethink any ideas of federalising the UK among other things. One thing all Britons ought to be proud of is our adherence to the rule of law first and foremost.