UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Not to mention never collecting on that £35 billion tax gap, with big businesses underpaying by £7.7 billion (up from £7.2 billion the year before) and small business underpaying by £14 billion (up from £12.3 billion in a year). There is a £12.5 billion shortfall on VAT alone (up 13% in one year).*

*Figures for 2019. 2020's figures are not out yet. Given this government's obvious preference for the economy -- signalled by the rapid opening of the nation, despite scientists' warnings against it -- I personally anticipate similar figures, if not another increase.

Presumably that means money not collected by the deadlines when it should have been right? You will never close that gap, for a start if a business is in the process of going bust it won't pay those taxes on time in the hope they get space to carry on trading and turn things around. Sometimes people pay late on purpose and pay when they get chased up and sometimes people forget and pay when they get chased.

I laugh at one point though, Making tax digital. Its worse than the old system honestly. My last VAT quarter my accounting software decided the government website was potentially malicious and wouldn't connect.

Thats just one of the problems I've had. Never had a problem with the old system.

It is malicious. It's a statist scam to take your money.

[The Black Forrest]

Presumably that means money not collected by the deadlines when it should have been right? You will never close that gap, for a start if a business is in the process of going bust it won't pay those taxes on time in the hope they get space to carry on trading and turn things around. Sometimes people pay late on purpose and pay when they get chased up and sometimes people forget and pay when they get chased.

I laugh at one point though, Making tax digital. Its worse than the old system honestly. My last VAT quarter my accounting software decided the government website was potentially malicious and wouldn't connect.

Thats just one of the problems I've had. Never had a problem with the old system.

It is malicious. It's a statist scam to take your money.

God bless them.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You all fail to realise Gerry Adams master plan that has been set in place, stone by stone over the years, where Sinn Fein has a massive surge in the west midlands.

[Philjia]

I would call it "making tax harder to pay even when you want to".

I think this is one of the central policies of the US Republican party.

[Salandriagado]

Jacob Rees-Mogg is forcing through a farcical vote in the House of Commons on whether to have future business conducted in person. It is taking an age because of the needs of social distancing, and those MPs unable to travel or at home shielding are unable to vote. There will be some virtual discussion on it tomorrow but those using the virtual system will be unable to vote.

So he is forcing this disenfranchising a number of MPs, and endangering the rest, so that Boris Johnson has some support around him and PMQs, because he is floundering without a gang around him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52895430

So far the vote has taken 45 minutes and all the votes have still not been cast. It is not a very practical way of voting compared to the virtual system.

Notably, the only MPs able to vote are the MPs who are able to deal with this in-person shit.

[Hirota]

Jacob Rees-Mogg is forcing through a farcical vote in the House of Commons on whether to have future business conducted in person. It is taking an age because of the needs of social distancing, and those MPs unable to travel or at home shielding are unable to vote. There will be some virtual discussion on it tomorrow but those using the virtual system will be unable to vote.

So he is forcing this disenfranchising a number of MPs, and endangering the rest, so that Boris Johnson has some support around him and PMQs, because he is floundering without a gang around him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52895430

So far the vote has taken 45 minutes and all the votes have still not been cast. It is not a very practical way of voting compared to the virtual system.

To an extent I agree; Bojo isn't doing so well in PMQ's (although I thought he did a lot better in the last one). He's also a bit of a showman - he benefits from an audience, a "gang" as you put it.

But I look at this another way - it's slightly hypocritical for government to start encouraging teachers and other workers to return, whilst not showing some semblence of returning themselves. I Do think some MP's should still be allowed to vote from home - especially older MP's (even if they ignore the advice), and vulnerable demographics).

---

HuffPo has been making some spicy takes on Racism in the Labour Party. (There is a second part, I've not read it yet).

It talks about the leaked report on anti-semitism (which I've linked before), and examples of private WhatsApp group messages amongst Labour Staffers.

Labour officials used a string of insults in private WhatsApp groups to describe senior Black MPs and officials including Diane Abbott, Dawn Butler and Clive Lewis, the lengthy document revealed.

Abbott is referred to as “repulsive”, with another official saying she “literally makes me sick”.

The Hackney MP, who was found by a study to be subject to nearly half the abusive tweets sent to female MPs, was also described as an “angry woman” – a racist trope – by a Labour colleague.

Clive Lewis is referred to in one message by a member of Labour staff as “the biggest cunt out of the lot” during a discussion about the Progressive Alliance campaign – a cross-party alliance that supported tactical voting, which Lewis had publicly backed.

Thoughts? I personally think some of the examples here are scraping the bottom of the barrel. "Angry woman" isn't a racist trope (although it's probably a sexist one), "Angry Black woman" is.

Calling Clive Lewis "the biggest cunt out of the lot" isn't racist. It's racist to suggest that he's been called that on the basis of his skin colour and not his policies.

Seems a lot of grasping at straws. Still, I'm not the one quitting the party over this, so maybe my opinion doesn't really matter.

[Vassenor]

Jacob Rees-Mogg is forcing through a farcical vote in the House of Commons on whether to have future business conducted in person. It is taking an age because of the needs of social distancing, and those MPs unable to travel or at home shielding are unable to vote. There will be some virtual discussion on it tomorrow but those using the virtual system will be unable to vote.

So he is forcing this disenfranchising a number of MPs, and endangering the rest, so that Boris Johnson has some support around him and PMQs, because he is floundering without a gang around him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52895430

So far the vote has taken 45 minutes and all the votes have still not been cast. It is not a very practical way of voting compared to the virtual system.

Notably, the only MPs able to vote are the MPs who are able to deal with this in-person shit.

But why would you want people who can't be guaranteed to vote the way JRM wants being able to vote? </s>

[North Cromch]

Why did Boris Johnson compare Brexit to food like it was nothing?

[New Bremerton]

From the main coronavirus thread:

A nice sentiment, although foolish to not practise social distancing.

The prime minister just denounced this incident in his corona press conference, and emphasised that 1.5m is non-negotiable, even when protesting.

Track them all down [the mass gathering in NI], fine them for violating lockdown rules, screen them on the spot, and detain them in quarantine facilities for 14 days. Should any of them test positive, trace their close contacts, rinse and repeat.

As for Britain's coronavirus response more generally, the government should've implemented aggressive testing and contact-tracing, banned all international travel of foreigners into and Britons out of the country, with compulsory screening and quarantining of all Britons (and foreign spouses and dependents if applicable, although they will have to pay for their own return ticket while the government reimburses its own citizens) returning from abroad, and strongly advised everyone to wear cloth face masks in public places, the moment the very first case was detected at the end of January, thereby precluding the need for any kind of draconian lockdown or social distancing measures and sparing the British economy a huge amount of butthurt.

But as the situation stands now, I recommend that the following steps be taken (bearing in mind that I'm no expert):

1.

Require that cloth face masks be worn by the general public in public places at all times or be fined on the spot, but do NOT order the police to savagely kick, punch, and brutalize anyone caught not wearing a mask in public to the point of unconsciousness and probable death like they do in China. The same applies to physical distancing of one or two meters. Face masks should be delivered free of charge to households by the government.

2.

Limit all nonessential domestic travel to within 10km of one's home, and limit all essential travel to just one person and only bring a second person from the same household if it is absolutely necessary to do so. Implement district-, borough- and county-level travel restrictions with police roadblocks manning the internal borders and issuing on-the-spot fines to those not crossing administrative boundaries for essential reasons i.e. shopping for groceries.

3.

Implement enhanced lockdowns in neighborhoods, buildings, and other premises where there is an especially high concentration of cases. Literally erect barbed wire around the affected neighborhoods, bar anyone from even stepping outside their front doors, and have health workers go door-to-door mass-testing every single person in the neighborhood without exception while the government supplies free food and other essentials directly to residents throughout the duration of the enhanced lockdown. Those who test positive must, of course, be quarantined alongside their close contacts.

Residents must have their situation calmly and politely explained to them and not violently dragged out of their homes kicking and screaming and locked in a literal cage in the back of a pickup truck and driven off to god-knows-where for displaying even the slightest sign of a fever. Front and back doors and windows should not be welded shut, and parents should not be condemned to slowly die in their homes while their children scream desperately for help from their balconies. Government-issued surveillance cameras should not be installed outside one's home, and definitely not INSIDE one's home like they do in China (and Oceania).

4.

Once cases have fallen substantially and restrictions can begin to be eased, require that economic sectors devise a strict standard operating procedure (SOP) for their respective industry in coordination with the Department of Health in order to maintain a safe, coronavirus-free environment and be permitted to reopen. Strongly encourage employers to require that all employees get tested as a condition of returning to work. Fine and close any businesses that fail to comply with partial lockdown measures for the remainder of the (partial) lockdown. If they go bust and fold, tough cookies.

5.

Implement a color-coded zoning system for home nations, regions, counties, boroughs, and districts based on the number of new cases over the last 14 days, and implement slightly harsher or milder travel and social-distancing restrictions as appropriate. Restrict unnecessary travel of persons from red zones with over 40 cases in the last 14 days to green zones with zero cases over the last 14 days.

6.

Dining at pubs, bars, and restaurants, and reopening of schools may be permitted if the infection rate falls even further. The ultimate aim should be to completely eliminate ALL local transmissions altogether and maintain a zero-case rate for at least 28 unbroken days or two full incubation periods. Perhaps, only then, can physical distancing measures and SOPs (which should remain in place long after the lockdown has officially ended) begin to be relaxed, but only if no new cases are detected within the community. With respect to imported cases, see intro.

7.

Maintain a public tally of all the major and minor clusters, no. of active cases, new recoveries, total recoveries, no. of patients in intensive care, no. of ICU patients on ventilators, etc. According to Worldometers, the UK hasn't been keeping track of active cases and recoveries for like a month now. The Chief Medical Officer or whoever the equivalent of Dr. Richard Fauci is in Britain should be leading the coronavirus response and giving the daily press briefings, not the politicians in charge.

8.

Do NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, attempt to use this pandemic as a flimsy excuse to crack down on all political dissent and seize absolute power as some governments have done in HK, Hungary, and elsewhere. Do NOT use the pandemic as an excuse to hold a mere one-day parliamentary sitting for several hours in the morning just to accommodate a King's the Queen's speech, with no room for debate, let alone a vote of no-confidence in order to remove an unelected government with a flimsy majority in the House. Do NOT attempt to extend a ban on all public gatherings to a date that just happens to "coincide" with the anniversary of a deadly political massacre, nor use it to justify the passage of internally-drafted legislation or externally-imposed promulgation of a national security law that could see political dissidents disappeared by secret police for "secession, subversion and terrorism".

9.

Testing capacity should be ramped up to at least 200,000 a day by the end of this month. Order all manufacturers to massively ramp up production of face masks (all types), PPE, test kits, drugs, and other essential medical supplies and equipment, and urgently reduce China's ability to blackmail Britain into loudly and publicly going on record to praise the unlimited generosity and goodwill of the CCP Chinese people, even going as far as to kiss the Chinese flag (which, by the way, should be publicly burned, not revered, because the CCP is responsible for the global pandemic), in exchange for "donations" of medical supplies.

10.

Call on Tedros and Aylward to resign for failing to utter even a single word of criticism against China for its mishandling of the coronavirus, instead opting to praise the CCP to the high heavens, criticizing travel restrictions imposed by other countries back in January and February and indirectly promoting the idea that such restrictions are "racist" and "xenophobic" when Trump or Boris do it, while utterly failing to do so when China closed its borders, falsely and maliciously labeling Taiwan as racist while hypocritically turning a blind eye to actual racism in China, refusing to allow Taiwan to participate as an observer in the World Health Assembly, and refusing to even acknowledge Taiwan's very existence as a distinct political entity and its absolutely stellar handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

11.

Threaten to withhold funding from the WHO unless these two, pro-PRC, subservient, spineless fucks resign their posts. Threaten to withdraw permanently within 30 days unless reforms are implemented. Fuck the WHO and fuck the UN and all of its agencies, including UNESCO and UNRWA.

[Disclaimer: I'm not calling the WHO's medical advice into question, or engaging in political nicknaming, or violating some other site rule just because many on this site hold the WHO to be an infallible source of wisdom and are not prepared to brook any criticism of it, hence the reports against me and several others. I'm not claiming the Wuhan coronavirus was manufactured in a Chinese (or French, or American) lab as a bioweapon. That is simply absurd.]

12.

Join Australia, Japan, and other countries in calling for an independent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic. Tell Beijing in no uncertain terms to stop fucking around or face crippling pandemic-related economic sanctions.

13.

Last but not least, fire Dominic Cummings.

[Souseiseki]

needed to look into the human fertilisation and embryology act and lol it's a mess because they include some shit about needing to ensure the welfare of any potential children and what that does and does not mean or imply are not clear and now i'm knee deep in legal/philosophical papers on the subject of human reproduction. questions include "so is being born into a same-sex or single parent family bad", "isn't this basically just eugenics" and "so are you gonna force people to gene mod their kids to increase welfare lol".

e: the whole thing is some french style shit but the UK snuck it in because it is denial about being a lot more social authoritarian than it like to pretend not to be

e2: very funny to see them set up a system that de facto demands discrimination against the disabled, the old and the single then try to worm out of it because it's not kosher in the modern era

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Alok Sharma is self isolating after feeling unwell at a debate in Parliament. Great idea Rees Mogg.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Alok Sharma is self isolating after feeling unwell at a debate in Parliament. Great idea Rees Mogg.

Great. The Parliament is now a virus spreader.

[Shamhnan Insir]

SAGE were not consulted on the 14 day quarantine measures for people arriving from abroad. Their concerns about this are echoed by others in the scientific community, with many stating that this policy simply makes no sense.
Add to that we have 200 business leaders writing to Patel to consider binning the plan, due to the continued impact this would have upon industries trying to recover from the lockdown.

So what the hell is the cabinet playing at?
"Lets get the economy going again, by tying it to an anchor and sinking it in 10,000 fathoms!"

What plan is this following? I'm trying to find a strategy the government could be using in which this quarantine measure would be useful, however I can't find anything logical, beyond sticking 2 fingers up at Europe which considering the situation will backfire immensely.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

SAGE were not consulted on the 14 day quarantine measures for people arriving from abroad. Their concerns about this are echoed by others in the scientific community, with many stating that this policy simply makes no sense.
Add to that we have 200 business leaders writing to Patel to consider binning the plan, due to the continued impact this would have upon industries trying to recover from the lockdown.

So what the hell is the cabinet playing at?
"Lets get the economy going again, by tying it to an anchor and sinking it in 10,000 fathoms!"

What plan is this following? I'm trying to find a strategy the government could be using in which this quarantine measure would be useful, however I can't find anything logical, beyond sticking 2 fingers up at Europe which considering the situation will backfire immensely.

It's idiotic. It would have been useful a couple of months ago, but now it is just going to kill some airlines and travel firms.

[Shamhnan Insir]

SAGE were not consulted on the 14 day quarantine measures for people arriving from abroad. Their concerns about this are echoed by others in the scientific community, with many stating that this policy simply makes no sense.
Add to that we have 200 business leaders writing to Patel to consider binning the plan, due to the continued impact this would have upon industries trying to recover from the lockdown.

So what the hell is the cabinet playing at?
"Lets get the economy going again, by tying it to an anchor and sinking it in 10,000 fathoms!"

What plan is this following? I'm trying to find a strategy the government could be using in which this quarantine measure would be useful, however I can't find anything logical, beyond sticking 2 fingers up at Europe which considering the situation will backfire immensely.

It's idiotic. It would have been useful a couple of months ago, but now it is just going to kill some airlines and travel firms.

The line from cabinet members at the moment is "Our infection rate is now low and therefore it is the perfect time to implement this"....

Can we sack Patel for stupidity? The plan is to roll this out as of Monday, and as such measures involve a good deal of logistical support and planning we can expect there to be issues with it initially where it will take time to learn these lessons and implement corrections or changes. So to be absolutely effective it could take more weeks.
Had this been implemented, oh I don't know, say at the beginning of lockdown or in the first few weeks when we had limited passenger numbers? We could learn the practical lessons and difficulties of this at that time and by now run such a protocol effectively.
This is simple management stuff, with a plan, contingencies and data. What we have instead is a poor excuse for a clown show, with some really bad clowns.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Odd how so many versions of the Meghan on Racism video seem to have had their colour balance changed so she looks whiter.

Compare this on Reuters
https://uk.reuters.com/video/watch/blac ... d713842871

to this on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52917620
and the Express
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/12 ... deo-latest

[Hirota]

It's idiotic. It would have been useful a couple of months ago, but now it is just going to kill some airlines and travel firms.

The line from cabinet members at the moment is "Our infection rate is now low and therefore it is the perfect time to implement this"....

Can we sack Patel for stupidity? The plan is to roll this out as of Monday, and as such measures involve a good deal of logistical support and planning we can expect there to be issues with it initially where it will take time to learn these lessons and implement corrections or changes. So to be absolutely effective it could take more weeks.
Had this been implemented, oh I don't know, say at the beginning of lockdown or in the first few weeks when we had limited passenger numbers? We could learn the practical lessons and difficulties of this at that time and by now run such a protocol effectively.
This is simple management stuff, with a plan, contingencies and data. What we have instead is a poor excuse for a clown show, with some really bad clowns.

I've already been critical about it. The only reason I can think this is a good idea is if the likelihood of a second wave of infections is high, and we've not seen much evidence of that yet.

[Hirota]

Odd how so many versions of the Meghan on Racism video seem to have had their colour balance changed so she looks whiter.

Compare this on Reuters
https://uk.reuters.com/video/watch/blac ... d713842871

to this on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52917620
and the Express
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/12 ... deo-latest

BBC's is closest to the original of those 3 - only thing they did wrong was stretch the image compared to the original, which was reportedly given to essence magazine, hence why I've added them into the side by side comparisson.

[Vassenor]

Tory claims Boris Johnson is more concerned about Brexit than how many people die from coronavirus

So it seems that the government is back on the Brexit Before Breathing horse, and it's starting to turn people off. Because really when a government puts international or internal prestige above the needs and survival of the people it is supposed to represent, that's a pretty big problem.

[Fartsniffage]

Odd how so many versions of the Meghan on Racism video seem to have had their colour balance changed so she looks whiter.

Compare this on Reuters
https://uk.reuters.com/video/watch/blac ... d713842871

to this on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52917620
and the Express
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/12 ... deo-latest

The Reuters video is really over-saturated.

[Greed and Death]

Tory claims Boris Johnson is more concerned about Brexit than how many people die from coronavirus

So it seems that the government is back on the Brexit Before Breathing horse, and it's starting to turn people off. Because really when a government puts international or internal prestige above the needs and survival of the people it is supposed to represent, that's a pretty big problem.

As the infection is mostly in Labour supporting areas it is no longer in the Tory's interest to contain the outbreak and instead focus on things likely to make the Labour voter take to the streets in protest.

[The New California Republic]

Odd how so many versions of the Meghan on Racism video seem to have had their colour balance changed so she looks whiter.

Compare this on Reuters
https://uk.reuters.com/video/watch/blac ... d713842871

to this on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52917620
and the Express
https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/12 ... deo-latest

The Reuters video is really over-saturated.

Overzealous video editing butchery.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Tory claims Boris Johnson is more concerned about Brexit than how many people die from coronavirus

So it seems that the government is back on the Brexit Before Breathing horse, and it's starting to turn people off. Because really when a government puts international or internal prestige above the needs and survival of the people it is supposed to represent, that's a pretty big problem.

Just maybe he's realised that saving every life isn't a sensible thing to be aiming for?

[Agarntrop]

Tory claims Boris Johnson is more concerned about Brexit than how many people die from coronavirus

So it seems that the government is back on the Brexit Before Breathing horse, and it's starting to turn people off. Because really when a government puts international or internal prestige above the needs and survival of the people it is supposed to represent, that's a pretty big problem.

Just maybe he's realised that saving every life isn't a sensible thing to be aiming for?

Yes it is?

The Government's top priority should be saving lives, even if that means rich people have to stop having flashy holidays you know.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Just maybe he's realised that saving every life isn't a sensible thing to be aiming for?

Yes it is?

The Government's top priority should be saving lives, even if that means rich people have to stop having flashy holidays you know.

Shutting down the economy just so people with a short life expectancy don't suddenly have a slightly shorter one is not a sensible thing to be doing as a government, nor is abandoning important national goals for the same reason.