UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

the correct response to this is to set up a big sign next to it, clearly addressing that part, that just says "ok boomer" on it

Don't worry. You'll enjoy your PRC'ian internet and PRC'ian bridges and PRC'ian food standards soon enough.

American*

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Don't worry. You'll enjoy your PRC'ian internet and PRC'ian bridges and PRC'ian food standards soon enough.

we left the EU, not remained in it

Imagine thinking that leaving the EU mean you will be able to independently set your own standards.

[Ifreann]

we left the EU, not remained in it

Imagine thinking that leaving the EU mean you will be able to independently set your own standards.

To achieve true independence, Britain must leave Earth.

[Starblaydia]

It was a little while ago, but I told y'all to watch it. Did some of you listen? Some of you did not.

Not at all. Just trying to dilute it down for you so you might not need to ask these inane questions and maybe have something insightful to say. I'll water it down even further.

*** Warned for flamebaiting ***

No, my friend. It is you and your ilk that are a threat to democracy. You should be exposed for the savages that you are. I'd say put down the Mein Kampf, but even Hitler thinks you're a reactionary. You want to turn this country back into the Dark Ages, and end democracy itself.

The fact is, New Bremerton, and this might be a little hard for you to swallow: you far-right goons are much less powerful than you think.

*** Warned for flaming ***

[The New California Republic]

HS∞

Truly the best.
We can change the title from "rainy island" to "raily island"

To carry out the HS∞ project we shall need to conscript everyone, young and old, to produce rails and lay track. The entire economy must be geared around HS∞, every settlement must have its own railway station, even hamlets. Stations must have a train stopping at them at least every 5 minutes. This is the first step of Fully Automated Communism comrades, rejoice in your toiling.

[Salandriagado]

Why is everyone who typically leans left against more high speed rail in the UK ? I thought that was the left's thing.

High speed rail? Yes. HS2 specifically? No. It's an overly expensive sticking plaster that doesn't address the fundamental problems with our rail network, and sucks up rail funding that could be better spent on things that would have far more effect.

[Salandriagado]

What's wrong with leeds? I quite like leeds.

Nothing really, just what is the major incentive for people to make the trip often enough to make the rail line viable?

Yes. You can tell, apart from anything else, by how terminally overcrowded the current trains between those cities are.

[Salandriagado]

The current time from Birmingham to London is 1 hour 21 minutes. HS2 cuts that to 49 minutes. £55 billion+ for 30 minutes off a train ride is ridiculous. Unless the lines continue further north it is a complete waste of time. And making the Birmingham - London link part of the second stage would have all but ensured the network got somewhere close to completed.

This is one of those projects where if the whole thing isn't done then it isn't really worth doing any part of it. It was sold to the public as a way to get the Northern Powerhouse started, stopping in the midlands pretty much pisses on that idea.

Apparently it was cheaper than upgrading existing track ways. I dunno why, I'm not a train engineer.

The way to get the 'northern powerhouse' started would to put in proper lines linking Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, leeds and Newcastle surely? Or is that too obvious for the government?

That would require common sense.

[Dumb Ideologies]

if i were the government i would HS4, just to make it clear to the british public that i am better than the previous governments

HS∞

If only Sabisky were around to "just put out there" the idea of an HS88 powered by onboard ovens.

[Salandriagado]

so i'm looking at the draft of the UK's proposed new points system aaaaaaaand

it's not a real points system

it's just the old immigration regime with numbers attached

my soul is howling holy shit they didn't even try

Erm, the old system was also a "points system". They haven't even changed that.

[The New California Republic]

HS∞

If only Sabisky were around to "just put out there" the idea of an HS88 powered by onboard ovens.

Folk would get suspicious when less people get off the trains than got on.

[Fartsniffage]

HS∞

If only Sabisky were around to "just put out there" the idea of an HS88 powered by onboard ovens.

The final solution to train overcrowding.

[Druing]

we left the EU, not remained in it

Imagine thinking that leaving the EU mean you will be able to independently set your own standards.

that was the whole point of leaving, yes. obviously not achievable instantly, like the transition period ends and we're suddenly freer citizens, no
things happen slowly.

edit:

What does leftism mean to you?

right, i meant to answer this;
leftism to me, is the country's people over its government - particularly the worse off (whether financially, disabled (i'm biased towards this one, since it applies to me) or other special circumstances apply) more so, but generally everyone. the idea that the state is servant to the masses and prioritise freedoms over security (but not always since in some situations/issues, some things trump others. it's a very fuzzy dynamic, not absolute at all), not the other way around. where this appears to conflict with what most leftist rhetoric seems to be presently, is that as part of this, i believe that a lot of fundamental rights and procedures are for every citizen. not just the people you like, or agree with. that to me, seems to be where the current point of failure is. because then it no longer becomes for everyone, it becomes a select group that can shrink or expand at its own discretion.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

I think if you want to open up inter-pennines so that people can live in one part and work in the other, the problem is the cost, and I don't think it's doable. You can already commute Leeds - Manchester, the train is only 1hr20m, the problem is it costs like £250 per month - and that's just northern services, for all services its £323.

[Novus America]

Imagine thinking that leaving the EU mean you will be able to independently set your own standards.

that was the whole point of leaving, yes. obviously not achievable instantly, like the transition period ends and we're suddenly freer citizens, no
things happen slowly.

edit:

What does leftism mean to you?

right, i meant to answer this;
leftism to me, is the country's people over its government - particularly the worse off (whether financially, disabled (i'm biased towards this one, since it applies to me) or other special circumstances apply) more so, but generally everyone. the idea that the state is servant to the masses and prioritise freedoms over security (but not always since in some situations/issues, some things trump others. it's a very fuzzy dynamic, not absolute at all), not the other way around. where this appears to conflict with what most leftist rhetoric seems to be presently, is that as part of this, i believe that a lot of fundamental rights and procedures are for every citizen. not just the people you like, or agree with. that to me, seems to be where the current point of failure is. because then it no longer becomes for everyone, it becomes a select group that can shrink or expand at its own discretion.

Practically speaking you will still have to follow some EU standards after the transition, at least for any goods you want to be able to sell in the EU.

The only thing you will truly be able to set your own standards for are things that are both made and sold in the UK.

And it is rather impractical in many cases to make a different model for selling at home and a different one abroad, so you may a effectively been still applying EU standards to the goods you sell elsewhere.

The only way to be truly independent is withdraw from all international organizations and end all foreign trade.

[Druing]

Practically speaking you will still have to follow some EU standards after the transition, at least for any goods you want to be able to sell in the EU.

The only thing you will truly be able to set your own standards for are things that are both made and sold in the UK.

And it is rather impractical in many cases to make a different model for selling at home and a different one abroad, so you may a effectively been still applying EU standards to the goods you sell elsewhere.

The only way to be truly independent is withdraw from all international organizations and end all foreign trade.

i wasn't talking about trade at all, but alright

[Novus America]

Practically speaking you will still have to follow some EU standards after the transition, at least for any goods you want to be able to sell in the EU.

The only thing you will truly be able to set your own standards for are things that are both made and sold in the UK.

And it is rather impractical in many cases to make a different model for selling at home and a different one abroad, so you may a effectively been still applying EU standards to the goods you sell elsewhere.

The only way to be truly independent is withdraw from all international organizations and end all foreign trade.

i wasn't talking about trade at all, but alright

Well it still matters. To trade with the EU, or do business there, you have to follow certain EU rules.
Now sure you do not have to follow all EU rules all the time, but every time you trade with anyone you give up some independence.
Every international organization you join the same.

The point is simply that Brexit will give you MORE independence it will not actually ever give you complete independence.

[The World Capitalist Confederation]

Imagine thinking that leaving the EU mean you will be able to independently set your own standards.

that was the whole point of leaving, yes. obviously not achievable instantly, like the transition period ends and we're suddenly freer citizens, no
things happen slowly.

edit:

What does leftism mean to you?

right, i meant to answer this;
leftism to me, is the country's people over its government - particularly the worse off (whether financially, disabled (i'm biased towards this one, since it applies to me) or other special circumstances apply) more so, but generally everyone. the idea that the state is servant to the masses and prioritise freedoms over security (but not always since in some situations/issues, some things trump others. it's a very fuzzy dynamic, not absolute at all), not the other way around. where this appears to conflict with what most leftist rhetoric seems to be presently, is that as part of this, i believe that a lot of fundamental rights and procedures are for every citizen. not just the people you like, or agree with. that to me, seems to be where the current point of failure is. because then it no longer becomes for everyone, it becomes a select group that can shrink or expand at its own discretion.

That's what I mean too. When I refer to "bourgeoisie" or "capitalists" and call them the enemy does not mean they are not entitled to those rights - it's just that they feel themselves worthy of more rights than the average person, and see themselves as the righteous heirs of industry, and wish to take dominion over the Earth, gaining their rights by stripping away the rights of others.

[Druing]

Well it still matters. To trade with the EU, or do business there, you have to follow certain EU rules.
Now sure you do not have to follow all EU rules all the time, but every time you trade with anyone you give up some independence.
Every international organization you join the same.

The point is simply that Brexit will give you MORE independence it will not actually ever give you complete independence.

it should matter on the topic of trade, yes. generally when you trade with people, you follow rules for that.
but when i'm talking about how we run our own country, then the EU should have zero say in it. that is what brexit was and is about.

That's what I mean too. When I refer to "bourgeoisie" or "capitalists" and call them the enemy does not mean they are not entitled to those rights - it's just that they feel themselves worthy of more rights than the average person, and see themselves as the righteous heirs of industry, and wish to take dominion over the Earth, gaining their rights by stripping away the rights of others.

it makes sense and i agree to an extent. but as far as i've seen, the proponents espousing this simply only want to be the ones being 'worth more than others'

[Fartsniffage]

it should matter on the topic of trade, yes. generally when you trade with people, you follow rules for that.
but when i'm talking about how we run our own country, then the EU should have zero say in it. that is what brexit was and is about.

What about worker protections? If the EU insists we match their rules for every worker who is involved in the production of something exported to the EU then is that okay?

[Druing]

What about worker protections? If the EU insists we match their rules for every worker who is involved in the production of something exported to the EU then is that okay?

that would absolutely be overreach on the EU's part.

[Fartsniffage]

What about worker protections? If the EU insists we match their rules for every worker who is involved in the production of something exported to the EU then is that okay?

that would absolutely be overreach on the EU's part.

But they started enforcing worker protections with the Japanese trade deal. We agreed to it. It's going to be in there for us too.

How about them insisting on high tariffs for any goods produced by a state owned company? Hardly seems fair to allow cheap foreign products to flood their market at the cost of their own businesses. And that would drive the UK to avoid nationalising business. Bailing out British Steel for example.

[Druing]

But they started enforcing worker protections with the Japanese trade deal. We agreed to it. It's going to be in there for us too.

How about them insisting on high tariffs for any goods produced by a state owned company? Hardly seems fair to allow cheap foreign products to flood their market at the cost of their own businesses. And that would drive the UK to avoid nationalising business. Bailing out British Steel for example.

well i can't do much against people agreeing to worker protections aside from disagree with it.

for tariffs, i can't say anything on that. i voted brexit for legislative reasons, not fiscal ones.

[Imperial Joseon]

that would absolutely be overreach on the EU's part.

But they started enforcing worker protections with the Japanese trade deal. We agreed to it. It's going to be in there for us too.

How about them insisting on high tariffs for any goods produced by a state owned company? Hardly seems fair to allow cheap foreign products to flood their market at the cost of their own businesses. And that would drive the UK to avoid nationalising business. Bailing out British Steel for example.

You mean, the radioactive wasteland?

[Fartsniffage]

But they started enforcing worker protections with the Japanese trade deal. We agreed to it. It's going to be in there for us too.

How about them insisting on high tariffs for any goods produced by a state owned company? Hardly seems fair to allow cheap foreign products to flood their market at the cost of their own businesses. And that would drive the UK to avoid nationalising business. Bailing out British Steel for example.

well i can't do much against people agreeing to worker protections aside from disagree with it.

for tariffs, i can't say anything on that. i voted brexit for legislative reasons, not fiscal ones.

The fiscal issues will impact the legislative issues. The EU is our biggest trading partner and despite his bluster Boris is fully aware of that. He will not want to be in charge of the biggest recession in British history so he will bend over like a good boy and give the EU what they want. And from what I've been reading they're in the mood to smack us around a bit.

*sings Rule Britannia*