I never said it did. I said that Johnson did do that.
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by Salandriagado » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:23 am
by Salandriagado » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:24 am
Druing wrote:Fartsniffage wrote:https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/we-need-to-talk-about-the-tories-antisemitism-problem/
from your source:And this is by no means an isolated incident, with Rees-Mogg a few weeks ago describing his Jewish colleague Oliver Letwin of being part of an ‘Illuminati’ for supporting legislation to delay a No Deal Brexit.
...so that was out of context, then.
by Vassenor » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:24 am
by Phoenicaea » Fri Feb 14, 2020 3:28 am
by Greed and Death » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:32 am
Vassenor wrote:So we're getting set up to break the power of the courts (something Brexit was supposed to be about preserving) because they might tell Boris No?
by Druing » Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:54 am
Salandriagado wrote:I never said it did. I said that Johnson did do that.
Cerinda wrote:This is also comes with the fact that Boris Johnson's government has the support of far-right nationalists like Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins, along with Britain First who are actual fascists.
Salandriagado wrote:So repeating antisemitic things makes it not antisemitic any more?
Fartsniffage wrote:JRM literally called 2 of his fellow Tory MPs members of the Illuminati in a Parliamentary debate. The two just happened to be Jewish.
He's in the Cabinet.
Druing wrote:Fartsniffage wrote:https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/we-need-to-talk-about-the-tories-antisemitism-problem/
from your source:And this is by no means an isolated incident, with Rees-Mogg a few weeks ago describing his Jewish colleague Oliver Letwin of being part of an ‘Illuminati’ for supporting legislation to delay a No Deal Brexit.
...so that was out of context, then.
by Greater vakolicci haven » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:06 am
Vassenor wrote:So we're getting set up to break the power of the courts (something Brexit was supposed to be about preserving) because they might tell Boris No?
by Chan Island » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:10 am
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by Fartsniffage » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:10 am
by New Bremerton » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:22 am
Vassenor wrote:New Bremerton wrote:Indeed. I've used the term myself, and I'm a proud, Asian, liberal, centrist, atheist Zionist who stands firmly with the State of Israel. Maybe the leftists and fake news rags like BuzzFeed, HuffPo, The Independent and The Guardian decrying those of us who use the term as "stealth antisemites" should have a good look in the mirror before lumping us with actual fascists and neo-Nazis.
By the way, Tommy Robinson may be an idiot and a buffoon who has done and said stupid things, but he's no racist or fascist. His views on Islam are spot on.
So what does it actually mean then?
by Vassenor » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:43 am
New Bremerton wrote:Questarian New Yorkshire wrote: Israel is an ethnic nationalist state which inflicted ethnic cleansing on what it perceives as an inferior race
The only groups that have sought to cleanse or subjugate an ethnic group from the entire Middle East wholesale have been Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians. It is they who consider non-Muslim infidels like us to be inferior. Everything Israel has done since then has been in self-defense and rightly so. The Palestinians have had their chances. No more games. But I don't want to derail this thread with yet another long rant about Islam, Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.Vassenor wrote:
So what does it actually mean then?
Cultural Marxism refers to the woke, identitarian Left, not to be confused with the more traditional, purely class-based Marxist ideology that predates it. At least that's what I mean when I use it.
by Dumb Ideologies » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:56 am
Vassenor wrote:New Bremerton wrote:
The only groups that have sought to cleanse or subjugate an ethnic group from the entire Middle East wholesale have been Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians. It is they who consider non-Muslim infidels like us to be inferior. Everything Israel has done since then has been in self-defense and rightly so. The Palestinians have had their chances. No more games. But I don't want to derail this thread with yet another long rant about Islam, Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, Israel, Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.
Cultural Marxism refers to the woke, identitarian Left, not to be confused with the more traditional, purely class-based Marxist ideology that predates it. At least that's what I mean when I use it.
So your buzzword means buzzwords. OK...
by Chan Island » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:00 am
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by The Huskar Social Union » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:55 am
by Chan Island » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:59 am
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.
by The Huskar Social Union » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:01 am
by The New California Republic » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:02 am
by The Huskar Social Union » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:03 am
by Gormwood » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:29 am
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:52 am
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Vassenor wrote:
So your buzzword means buzzwords. OK...
What is the purpose of this pretence of asking definitions when there is a pattern observable to even occasional visitors that your response will be a lazy "nuh-uh" to avoid the effort of even token engagement?
No one is fooled!
by LRON » Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:05 pm
Fartsniffage wrote:Druing wrote:
interesting. can you source that please? i'd like to go over it
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/we-need ... m-problem/
by Salandriagado » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:18 pm
Druing wrote:Salandriagado wrote:I never said it did. I said that Johnson did do that.
earlier, you supported the clear implication that because these people with these beliefs support this thing, this thing is then associated with those beliefs:Cerinda wrote:This is also comes with the fact that Boris Johnson's government has the support of far-right nationalists like Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins, along with Britain First who are actual fascists.
the latter of what you said was also put forward, which i didn't challenge.Salandriagado wrote:So repeating antisemitic things makes it not antisemitic any more?
i'm under the impression that the original accusation was not that it was antisemitic, but rather more an accusation of jrm courting a conspiracy theory, in particular, the very fictional illuminati and that he accused his fellows of being members of them, in which i believe we resolved earlier that it was an accusation of conspiracy using the name as part of an expression.
Fartsniffage wrote:JRM literally called 2 of his fellow Tory MPs members of the Illuminati in a Parliamentary debate. The two just happened to be Jewish.
He's in the Cabinet.
am i understanding the accusation wrong then, and that instead the case is, jrm is antisemitic for reason being; he opposed people's actions as MPs and the nature of the antisemitism is that the specific people being opposed in this instance practice judaism?
or am i wrong here as well?
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:23 pm
Salandriagado wrote:Druing wrote:
earlier, you supported the clear implication that because these people with these beliefs support this thing, this thing is then associated with those beliefs:
TIL I'm Cerinda.the latter of what you said was also put forward, which i didn't challenge.
i'm under the impression that the original accusation was not that it was antisemitic, but rather more an accusation of jrm courting a conspiracy theory, in particular, the very fictional illuminati and that he accused his fellows of being members of them, in which i believe we resolved earlier that it was an accusation of conspiracy using the name as part of an expression.
An antisemitic conspiracy theory.
am i understanding the accusation wrong then, and that instead the case is, jrm is antisemitic for reason being; he opposed people's actions as MPs and the nature of the antisemitism is that the specific people being opposed in this instance practice judaism?
or am i wrong here as well?
We're accusing him of being antisemitic because he's propagating an antisemitic conspiracy theory. This is not rocket science.
by Salandriagado » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:23 pm
Ostroeuropa wrote:Salandriagado wrote:
TIL I'm Cerinda.
An antisemitic conspiracy theory.
We're accusing him of being antisemitic because he's propagating an antisemitic conspiracy theory. This is not rocket science.
Just because the left asserts it to avoid engaging with the idea doesn't mean the right has to treat that assertion as valid.
Cultural Marxism is a shorthand description of intersectional identity politics and comparing it to the Marxist class struggle and oppressor-oppressed dynamic. That's how moderates use it.
You may as well claim globalism is by definition anti-Semitic as a term because Nazis mean Jews when they say it.
As far as i'm concerned this is a TERF issue. If cultural Marxists don't like the term, they should supply their own one to describe themselves rather than pretending they don't exist as a distinct group separate from others they pretend to be the same as.
by Ostroeuropa » Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:25 pm
Salandriagado wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:
Just because the left asserts it to avoid engaging with the idea doesn't mean the right has to treat that assertion as valid.
Cultural Marxism is a shorthand description of intersectional identity politics and comparing it to the Marxist class struggle and oppressor-oppressed dynamic. That's how moderates use it.
You may as well claim globalism is by definition anti-Semitic as a term because Nazis mean Jews when they say it.
As far as i'm concerned this is a TERF issue. If cultural Marxists don't like the term, they should supply their own one to describe themselves rather than pretending they don't exist as a distinct group separate from others they pretend to be the same as.
Kindly point out where I mentioned "cultural Marxism" in any way, shape, or form.
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