UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Druing]

I don't buy it.

i'll happily retract it if they (the affiliation alone and what you accuse it of doing) turn out to be related somehow, but like greater vakolicci haven said above,

Yes, you don't get to pick who endorses you.

i invite you to look at it this way; if you let people's alignments get dictated by their affiliations, then wouldn't they get the control over who is what? the alt-right could just start endorsing people and then everyone's alt-right suddenly. that doesn't work out.

but i also don't deny that a close affiliation can correlate to and potentially be a influence on someone; for example, someone could make a new friend with someone else of a political persuasion. then if that friend convinces the first person of their political beliefs, then yeah, sure, that's them influenced. but clearly the line here is that the action has been taken by the second person and was not sufficiently resisted by the first, if at all. it doesn't happen by the affiliation alone.

[Cerinda]

So it's just a massive coincidence that the party has the support of notable far right groups and MPs spouting anti-semitic conspiracies.

Yes, you don't get to pick who endorses you. I'm sure Andrew Yang didn't like having random alt-right groups endorsing him, and nobody claims he is himself alt-right.

Two key parts here which we need to assess.

1. There's a reason as to why they support them.

2. It depends wherever or not the candidate has disavowed them or not.

The reason the Alt-right supported Yang was because he was not part of the political establishment and because they like the idea of getting a thousand dollars a month. Also, Yang disavowed and condemned the White Nationalists supporting him and has said he does not want them part of his fanbase.

So, we have to like at why so many fascists support Boris's government and no other previous conservative government or politician apart from maybe Enoch Powell, and wherever or not Boris has disavowed and condemned the support he has received, which I'm pretty sure he has not.

[Salandriagado]

So it's just a massive coincidence that the party has the support of notable far right groups and MPs spouting anti-semitic conspiracies.

yes.

It stops being a coincidence when you give them a job and invite them to cabinet meetings.

[Druing]

It stops being a coincidence when you give them a job and invite them to cabinet meetings.

not being bothered who does and doesn't support you doesn't automatically lead to that.

[Fartsniffage]

It stops being a coincidence when you give them a job and invite them to cabinet meetings.

not being bothered who does and doesn't support you doesn't automatically lead to that.

JRM literally called 2 of his fellow Tory MPs members of the Illuminati in a Parliamentary debate. The two just happened to be Jewish.

He's in the Cabinet.

[Druing]

JRM literally called 2 of his fellow Tory MPs members of the Illuminati in a Parliamentary debate. The two just happened to be Jewish.

He's in the Cabinet.

interesting. can you source that please? i'd like to go over it

[Fartsniffage]

JRM literally called 2 of his fellow Tory MPs members of the Illuminati in a Parliamentary debate. The two just happened to be Jewish.

He's in the Cabinet.

interesting. can you source that please? i'd like to go over it

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/we-need ... m-problem/

[Druing]

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/we-need-to-talk-about-the-tories-antisemitism-problem/

from your source:

And this is by no means an isolated incident, with Rees-Mogg a few weeks ago describing his Jewish colleague Oliver Letwin of being part of an ‘Illuminati’ for supporting legislation to delay a No Deal Brexit.

...so that was out of context, then.

[Ostroeuropa]

cummings is fucking me off because he's trying to act like a shadowy behind the scenes player but we're in current era with mass media so it doesn't work anymore and everyone just gets confused as to why this twit is publicly trying to pull a stalin

cummings is fucking me off because he's trying to act like a shadowy behind the scenes player but we're in current era with mass media so it doesn't work anymore and everyone just gets confused as to why this twit is publicly trying to pull a stalin

Cable's Law: anyone in British politics who attempts to imitate Stalin instead slowly transforms into Mr Bean.

You bell ends got me in trouble with my mrs because I started pissing myself laughing right as she walked in asking if her dress looked stupid and was too much in stitches to explain I wasn't laughing at her. Now I have to explain who Dominic cummings is to someone who is apolitical.

[The New California Republic]

cummings is fucking me off because he's trying to act like a shadowy behind the scenes player but we're in current era with mass media so it doesn't work anymore and everyone just gets confused as to why this twit is publicly trying to pull a stalin

Cable's Law: anyone in British politics who attempts to imitate Stalin instead slowly transforms into Mr Bean.

You bell ends got me in trouble with my mrs because I started pissing myself laughing right as she walked in asking if her dress looked stupid and was too much in stitches to explain I wasn't laughing at her. Now I have to explain who Dominic cummings is to someone who is apolitical.

It's the sofa for you tonight.

[Fartsniffage]

You bell ends got me in trouble with my mrs because I started pissing myself laughing right as she walked in asking if her dress looked stupid and was too much in stitches to explain I wasn't laughing at her. Now I have to explain who Dominic cummings is to someone who is apolitical.

It's the sofa for you tonight.

Sexism. His missus should be on the sofa. *nods*

[Souseiseki]

It's the sofa for you tonight.

Sexism. His missus should be on the sofa. *nods*

thanks blair

[Andsed]

cummings is fucking me off because he's trying to act like a shadowy behind the scenes player but we're in current era with mass media so it doesn't work anymore and everyone just gets confused as to why this twit is publicly trying to pull a stalin

Cable's Law: anyone in British politics who attempts to imitate Stalin instead slowly transforms into Mr Bean.

You bell ends got me in trouble with my mrs because I started pissing myself laughing right as she walked in asking if her dress looked stupid and was too much in stitches to explain I wasn't laughing at her. Now I have to explain who Dominic cummings is to someone who is apolitical.

Ha.

[Fartsniffage]

Sexism. His missus should be on the sofa. *nods*

thanks blair

I wish I had his hair.

[The New California Republic]

thanks blair

I wish I had his hair.

Well you don't, so there.

[Ifreann]

thanks blair

I wish I had his hair.

That hair carries a terrible curse. Whoever it takes as a host...becomes Tony Blair.

[Gormwood]

I wish I had his hair.

That hair carries a terrible curse. Whoever it takes as a host...becomes Tony Blair.

That's the secret of his immortality. The hair seeks out a new host when the old body dies.

[Dumb Ideologies]

On the "cultural marxism" issue, the term has long re-entered the wider right-wing parlance - via American and then British exponents of the "culture war" - as a general way to describe radically non-traditionalist leftist intellectuals and academic types who seek to deconstruct Western society's norms and values with allegedly destructive effects. In current usage it doesn't necessarily imply direct intent to destroy as part of some nefarious yiddish-accented communist plot, indeed the argument is often that the people spouting such things are unthinking faux-educated NPCs duped by woke ideology. It's often used alongside terms like "cathedral" to describe the left as a place where "heresy" against goodthinkfulness is prohibited. And honestly it's not hard to understand why, with the anti-semitism stripped out this analysis of the behaviour of some libertarian leftists is not entirely lacking for validity.

Obviously this doesn't mean that Neo-nazis don't also often use the term with the Jew-hate still baked in, but phrases spread and mutate beyond their original meaning and develop ambiguities so someone using the term is not the "caught you, crypto-nazi" gotcha some are making it out to be.

[New Bremerton]

On the "cultural marxism" issue, the term has long re-entered the wider right-wing parlance - via American and then British exponents of the "culture war" - as a general way to describe radically non-traditionalist leftist intellectuals and academic types who seek to deconstruct Western society's norms and values with allegedly destructive effects. In current usage it doesn't necessarily imply direct intent to destroy as part of some nefarious yiddish-accented communist plot, indeed the argument is often that the people spouting such things are unthinking faux-educated NPCs duped by woke ideology. It's often used alongside terms like "cathedral" to describe the left as a place where "heresy" against goodthinkfulness is prohibited. And honestly it's not hard to understand why, with the anti-semitism stripped out this analysis of the behaviour of some libertarian leftists is not entirely lacking for validity.

Obviously this doesn't mean that Neo-nazis don't also often use the term with the Jew-hate still baked in, but phrases spread and mutate beyond their original meaning and develop ambiguities so someone using the term is not the "caught you, crypto-nazi" gotcha some are making it out to be.

Indeed. I've used the term myself, and I'm a proud, Asian, liberal, centrist, atheist Zionist who stands firmly with the State of Israel. Maybe the leftists and fake news rags like BuzzFeed, HuffPo, The Independent and The Guardian decrying those of us who use the term as "stealth antisemites" should have a good look in the mirror before lumping us with actual fascists and neo-Nazis.

By the way, Tommy Robinson may be an idiot and a buffoon who has done and said stupid things, but he's no racist or fascist. His views on Islam are spot on.

[Vassenor]

On the "cultural marxism" issue, the term has long re-entered the wider right-wing parlance - via American and then British exponents of the "culture war" - as a general way to describe radically non-traditionalist leftist intellectuals and academic types who seek to deconstruct Western society's norms and values with allegedly destructive effects. In current usage it doesn't necessarily imply direct intent to destroy as part of some nefarious yiddish-accented communist plot, indeed the argument is often that the people spouting such things are unthinking faux-educated NPCs duped by woke ideology. It's often used alongside terms like "cathedral" to describe the left as a place where "heresy" against goodthinkfulness is prohibited. And honestly it's not hard to understand why, with the anti-semitism stripped out this analysis of the behaviour of some libertarian leftists is not entirely lacking for validity.

Obviously this doesn't mean that Neo-nazis don't also often use the term with the Jew-hate still baked in, but phrases spread and mutate beyond their original meaning and develop ambiguities so someone using the term is not the "caught you, crypto-nazi" gotcha some are making it out to be.

Indeed. I've used the term myself, and I'm a proud, Asian, liberal, centrist, atheist Zionist who stands firmly with the State of Israel. Maybe the leftists and fake news rags like BuzzFeed, HuffPo, The Independent and The Guardian decrying those of us who use the term as "stealth antisemites" should have a good look in the mirror before lumping us with actual fascists and neo-Nazis.

By the way, Tommy Robinson may be an idiot and a buffoon who has done and said stupid things, but he's no racist or fascist. His views on Islam are spot on.

So what does it actually mean then?

[Dumb Ideologies]

Indeed. I've used the term myself, and I'm a proud, Asian, liberal, centrist, atheist Zionist who stands firmly with the State of Israel. Maybe the leftists and fake news rags like BuzzFeed, HuffPo, The Independent and The Guardian decrying those of us who use the term as "stealth antisemites" should have a good look in the mirror before lumping us with actual fascists and neo-Nazis.

By the way, Tommy Robinson may be an idiot and a buffoon who has done and said stupid things, but he's no racist or fascist. His views on Islam are spot on.

So what does it actually mean then?

My post which is part of that chain provides some explanation of current usage. I hope it helps and I look forward to any feedback that isn't a one line question that avoids the point.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

It's often used alongside terms like "cathedral" to describe the left as a place where "heresy" against goodthinkfulness is prohibited.

poor explanation

I've never seen cultural marxism been described as a loaded anti-semitism term though. I think that's just a grauniad trope

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

It's often used alongside terms like "cathedral" to describe the left as a place where "heresy" against goodthinkfulness is prohibited.

poor explanation

I've never seen cultural marxism been described as a loaded anti-semitism term though. I think that's just a grauniad trope

You’ve never seen anyone make the comparison between cultural marxism and cultural bolshevism? Really?

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's insane definition of antisemitism, which the Labour party was forced to accept, provides useful insights into modern day anti-semitism and its causes (and also its proponents.) At the same time as the actual state of Israel explicitly outlines itself as a Jewish state in its declaration of independence and seventy years afterward as the Jewish Nation State, the IHRA's working definition simultaneously forces its signatories to accept Israel as a Jewish ethnostate and to reject out of hand any comment on the legitimacy of a Jewish state (read: a Jewish state, not the Jewish state: my distinction added), but at the same time also forces them to reject any connection between ethnic Jewish persons in any other country to the state of Israel and at the same time accepts that the Jewish people can be 'one thing' collected but denies any global Jewish connection to Israel and acquits Jews of any participatory guilt in Israeli crimes against humanity (which it implicitly denies.)

One rule for the people of Palestine, ejected by force of arms from their native home, and one rule for Israel, a state established by terrorism - and both UK major political parties would call me anti-Semitic for that comment under the IHRA's explanation.

But also one rule for the rest of us, who rightly and intuitively place our people in their historical context and assign and take collective blame, or praise, for our country's misdemeanours, adventures, and contributions to humanity. We are the anti-semites by default because our ancestors were (and we get it lightly: think about Germans), but Jews have no connection to the ethno Jewish state and can't be held responsible for its activities.

Hmm.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

atheist Zionist who stands firmly with the State of Israel... before lumping us with actual fascists and neo-Nazis.

Israel is an ethnic nationalist state which inflicted ethnic cleansing on what it perceives as an inferior race