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UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Should the UK Take a Harder Line Against Russia on the Basis of the ISC Report?

Yes
56
67%
No
14
17%
No *vote amended by GRU*
13
16%
 
Total votes : 83

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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:38 pm

Novus America wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Keep an eye on the streets. They like to change.


Well in Eastern Europe that is actually not a crazy thing to say :p

Though actually during the invasion scare of 1940 to 1941 road signs were removed and swapped to confuse a hypothetical German invasion.

Maybe the government still wants to scare away the Germans :o

It won't help against the hordes of PRC'ians coming here to colonise England... half of them speaks only passable English and the other half doesn't at all. <.>

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:41 pm

Novus America wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Keep an eye on the streets. They like to change.


Well in Eastern Europe that is actually not a crazy thing to say :p

Though actually during the invasion scare of 1940 to 1941 road signs were removed and swapped to confuse a hypothetical German invasion.

Maybe the government still wants to scare away the Germans :o

In the UK all the train station signs were removed.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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Fartsniffage
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:59 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Well in Eastern Europe that is actually not a crazy thing to say :p

Though actually during the invasion scare of 1940 to 1941 road signs were removed and swapped to confuse a hypothetical German invasion.

Maybe the government still wants to scare away the Germans :o

In the UK all the train station signs were removed.


As well as signposts and mile markers.

There was also a captain sent to the USSR as a tank doctrine adviser after a decision was made to put up signs saying sheep should keep out of the roads in Southern England so military traffic was unimpeded. He asked a general how the sheep were supposed to read the signs.
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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:46 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Using a phrase to gain attention is sometimes a logical way of promoting something that should be condemned.


There are circumstances where that's the case. However, this is clearly not one of them. Dropping a ludicrous phrase as the entire response, and providing no commentary to give any supposed "ironic" context, leads to near-certainty that the discussion will primarily be diverted to the inaccuracy of the word choice. Which will in turn hamper rather than facilitate discussion of the more nuanced point you claim to have wanted to have made but didn't.

The conclusion is that either you made an illogical argument, or you meant your words to express one thing but it got widely interpreted as expressing something else. Given that this something else was what your words literally said, and multiple people of various political views interpreted this as being your meaning, a reasonable person would conclude that the fault lies with your communication rather than others' pedantry or failing to understand the workings of your beautiful grand strategy.


*Shrugs*

People can interpret it how they like.
I found it the right word to use.

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Bienenhalde
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Postby Bienenhalde » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:40 pm

Bienenhalde (mostly) represents my real political views.
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Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
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Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:41 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:


The UK can issue its own regulations to stop sewage dumping. There is nothing to stop them.

But will they?

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:41 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:


The UK can issue its own regulations to stop sewage dumping. There is nothing to stop them.

"Dump it in EU territory, let those fuckers deal with it!"
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:57 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
The UK can issue its own regulations to stop sewage dumping. There is nothing to stop them.

"Dump it in EU territory, let those fuckers deal with it!"


Based and redpilled

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:23 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:I do love a privatised Royal Mail.

Got a letter today and in their defence they did get the street number correct. Sadly they missed that the street name, town, city, and county were wrong. Not sure how that's even managed?

Was the post code the same or very similar?
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:27 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:I do love a privatised Royal Mail.

Got a letter today and in their defence they did get the street number correct. Sadly they missed that the street name, town, city, and county were wrong. Not sure how that's even managed?

Was the post code the same or very similar?

Postcodes in totally different areas are nigh on impossible to mix up...
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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The Huskar Social Union
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Huskar Social Union » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:29 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Was the post code the same or very similar?

Postcodes in totally different areas are nigh on impossible to mix up...

Random side note, Northern Ireland uses BT as the post code for the entire region. For such a long time i thought Scotland etc would have had just one postcode too.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:33 pm

The Huskar Social Union wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Postcodes in totally different areas are nigh on impossible to mix up...

Random side note, Northern Ireland uses BT as the post code for the entire region. For such a long time i thought Scotland etc would have had just one postcode too.

NI is about the same size as the Perth postcode area.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Novus America
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Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:34 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Bienenhalde wrote:
The UK can issue its own regulations to stop sewage dumping. There is nothing to stop them.

But will they?


The thing is the EU is clearly not solving the problem either as this has been going on for years.

What is really needed is infrastructure investment, regulations alone will not fix aging, overused Victorian era sewers, you need to actually spend money.
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Fartsniffage
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:I do love a privatised Royal Mail.

Got a letter today and in their defence they did get the street number correct. Sadly they missed that the street name, town, city, and county were wrong. Not sure how that's even managed?

Was the post code the same or very similar?


Really not. The postcode even had one more letter than mine.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:44 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Was the post code the same or very similar?


Really not. The postcode even had one more letter than mine.

The only thing I can think of is that the OCR on the sorting machine misread the postcode, if it wasn't manually sorted that is. But then again you'd think the postie delivering it would have noticed it.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Celritannia
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Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/vi ... ress-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.

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Zirkagrad wrote:A person with a penchant for flying lions with long tongues, could possibly be a fan of Kiss. Maybe the classiest nation with a lion with its tongue hanging out. Enjoys only the finest tea.

Nakena wrote:NSG's Most Serene Salad

Crysuko wrote:My little crony: corruption is magic
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:12 pm

Celritannia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/feb/04/laughter-erupts-as-tory-mp-claims-government-is-committed-to-open-dealings-with-press-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.

It's a shame to see that they are taking a page out of Trump's book, as he started doing that.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Anarchy

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:18 pm

Celritannia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/feb/04/laughter-erupts-as-tory-mp-claims-government-is-committed-to-open-dealings-with-press-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.

People who weren't invited didn't get to attend.
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Fartsniffage
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:19 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Celritannia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/feb/04/laughter-erupts-as-tory-mp-claims-government-is-committed-to-open-dealings-with-press-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.

People who weren't invited didn't get to attend.


No one attended. Because those who were invited walked out. Even the evil parasites that make up the British press thought this was wrong.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:22 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Celritannia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/feb/04/laughter-erupts-as-tory-mp-claims-government-is-committed-to-open-dealings-with-press-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.

People who weren't invited didn't get to attend.

Barring certain journalists from press briefings negatively affects both freedom of the press and government transparency.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Celritannia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:22 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Celritannia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/feb/04/laughter-erupts-as-tory-mp-claims-government-is-committed-to-open-dealings-with-press-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.

People who weren't invited didn't get to attend.


Media outlets must always attend press conferences so they can criticise and report on the Government's actions. Otherwise, how do we hold our politicians to account?
Last edited by Celritannia on Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Hirota
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:04 pm

Celritannia wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2020/feb/04/laughter-erupts-as-tory-mp-claims-government-is-committed-to-open-dealings-with-press-video

They are afraid of the press, or rather, any press that isn't a media baron with offshore bank accounts and don't reside in the UK.
Curious they didn't invite The Independent and evening standard then. Curious they invited the beeb which isn't owned by a "media baron. Curious they invited the Guardian which also is not owned by a media Baron. Curious they invited the ITV which is a plc not owned by a single individual or group.

Almost as if these five examples prove the drivel in this particular claim. :roll:

A word of advice Cel, if people notice you have a habit of spewing drivel (or as you like to creatively call it "Using a phrase to gain attention") people will start pointing out the trend of a lack of anything resembling rational argument.
Celritannia wrote:Media outlets must always attend press conferences so they can criticise and report on the Government's actions. Otherwise, how do we hold our politicians to account?

The New California Republic wrote:Barring certain journalists from press briefings negatively affects both freedom of the press and government transparency.

Fartsniffage wrote:No one attended. Because those who were invited walked out. Even the evil parasites that make up the British press thought this was wrong.

Curious that some of these same journalists in "the lobby" have been actively trying to supress freedom of the press and transparency. If they are that determined to promote transparency then briefings should be broadcast and publicly available, not limited to their direct viewing to decide what gets communicated or not..

Look, it is certainly worrying the breakdown in the relationship between No 10 and the lobby for the reasons outlined (although this is hardly new, and it's not just the Tories with a grudge against the press). Thats a given. Press freedom is a universal liberty that needs to be upheld for all, whether the people in power like what publications say or not. Staging such a public show of excluding some journalists made Johnson’s team appear petty-minded and proscriptive – hardly a demonstration of its claim to be ‘the most transparent government in decades’. But some context is required.

The independent reports that:
It is not uncommon for politicians and their political special advisers to brief particular publications or journalists about their plans.

But it has long been the convention that briefings from politically neutral civil servants are conducted on a strictly non-partisan basis, with publications of all shades of opinion represented to ensure that readers and viewers are kept informed.
And they are right, mostly. The problem stems from a (maybe deliberate) miscommunication of who was hosting this particular briefing. SpAds are not politically neutral civil servants, and Lee Cain, is listed as a SpAd by the Guardian.

Also, just because "the convention that briefings from politically neutral civil servants are conducted on a strictly non-partisan basis" existed before does not mean that the convention is obligation.This appeal to tradition argument is fallacious, especially when I recall the Independent cheering when certain conventions were thrown out the window by Bercow.

Finally, Spads are not new. Howard Wilson brought them in back in the 60's.
Last edited by Hirota on Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:39 am, edited 3 times in total.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:47 am

Scotland's finance secretary has quit hours before delivering his budget over claims he messaged a 16-year-old boy on social media.

The Scottish Sun reported that Derek Mackay contacted the boy over a six-month period, and told him that he was "cute".

When Nicola Sturgeon took office in 2015, he became transport minister, before being promoted to finance secretary following the 2016 Holyrood election. Many bookmakers had him down as the favourite to succeed Ms Sturgeon as first minister.

The 42-year-old was also a major figure in the SNP, serving as business convener for seven years, a role which saw him overseeing management of the party and chairing conferences and election campaigns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51397956
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Hirota
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Posts: 6645
Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Hirota » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:54 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Scotland's finance secretary has quit hours before delivering his budget over claims he messaged a 16-year-old boy on social media.

The Scottish Sun reported that Derek Mackay contacted the boy over a six-month period, and told him that he was "cute".

When Nicola Sturgeon took office in 2015, he became transport minister, before being promoted to finance secretary following the 2016 Holyrood election. Many bookmakers had him down as the favourite to succeed Ms Sturgeon as first minister.

The 42-year-old was also a major figure in the SNP, serving as business convener for seven years, a role which saw him overseeing management of the party and chairing conferences and election campaigns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51397956
So both Sturgeon's predecessor and likely successor have appearently been caught in flagrante delicto. But obviously it's only Westminster that is the problem. It's not been a great week for them.
When a wise man points at the moon the imbecile examines the finger - Confucius
Known to trigger Grammar Nazis, Spelling Nazis, Actual Nazis, the emotionally stunted and pedants.
Those affected by the views, opinions or general demeanour of this poster should review this puppy picture. Those affected by puppy pictures should consider investing in an isolation tank.

Economic Left/Right: -3.25, Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03
Isn't it curious how people will claim they are against tribalism, then pigeonhole themselves into tribes?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
I use obviously in italics to emphasise the conveying of sarcasm. If I've put excessive obviously's into a post that means I'm being sarcastic

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:13 am

Hirota wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:
So both Sturgeon's predecessor and likely successor have appearently been caught in flagrante delicto. But obviously it's only Westminster that is the problem. It's not been a great week for them.


Also from the BBC article:

After thirteen years in office, the SNP does not have its troubles to seek.

There's the CalMac ferry order scandal, a public inquiry into hospital failures and a full review of the school curriculum amid concerns about underperformance in education.

And the party's former leader, Alex Salmond, is due to stand trial next month on allegations that he sexually assaulted ten women, which he denies.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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