UK Politics Thread XII: The Lockdown

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm less concerned with the videos origins and more with retweeting it in the current context, where it is clear what message is being sent and to whom. It aligns neatly with the broader narrative on the UK and it's people advanced by a certain political faction and the institutions it controls, and their usage of the video needs to be viewed in that context.

The full video is the current context. It was made specifically for Brexit. Taking one part alone is taking it out of context.

It doesn't change much even if we acknowledge your point, it simply changes it to;

"Yes, I may have said africans have no cultural accomplishments, but it's alright, because I also said white people can't jump and Asians are good at math, so i'm not being racist.". It's peddling the dominant form of anti-British racism which progressives and liberals routinely espouse. The question is whether the mockery of the French, Italians, and germans was also leaning into the dominant forms of racism against those groups. If it wasn't, your observation is irrelevant, if it was, your observation is; "It's not JUST racist against British people though".

If it were a video that portrayed Italians as stupid, lazy, superstitious, over-emotional and so on, then the second would apply. If it simply mocked them along similar lines it mocked the british, it would be irrelevant, because there isn't a persistant narrative pushed in our society about Italians having no culture worth acknowledging, and so it wouldn't be an element of anti-Italian racism.

At the most charitable you could say "Yes it's true black people are violent and criminal, but did you know these other ethnic groups are also that?".

Hardly an anti-racist piece given that the "Other ethnic groups" part isn't going to reinforce an overarching hostility on that basis.

[Fartsniffage]

The full video is the current context. It was made specifically for Brexit. Taking one part alone is taking it out of context.

It doesn't change much even if we acknowledge your point, it simply changes it to;

"Yes, I may have said africans have no cultural accomplishments, but it's alright, because I also said white people can't jump and Asians are good at math, so i'm not being racist.". It's peddling the dominant form of anti-British racism which progressives and liberals routinely espouse. The question is whether the mockery of the French, Italians, and germans was also leaning into the dominant forms of racism against those groups. If it wasn't, your observation is irrelevant, if it was, your observation is; "It's not JUST racist against British people though".

If it were a video that portrayed Italians as stupid, lazy, superstitious, over-emotional and so on, then the second would apply. If it simply mocked them along similar lines it mocked the british, it would be irrelevant, because there isn't a persistant narrative pushed in our society about Italians having no culture worth acknowledging, and so it wouldn't be an element of anti-Italian racism.

I think you're taking an 11 year old childrens TV song that ends with a footman pouring sugar over Queen Victorias head a little bit too seriously....

[Ostroeuropa]

It doesn't change much even if we acknowledge your point, it simply changes it to;

"Yes, I may have said africans have no cultural accomplishments, but it's alright, because I also said white people can't jump and Asians are good at math, so i'm not being racist.". It's peddling the dominant form of anti-British racism which progressives and liberals routinely espouse. The question is whether the mockery of the French, Italians, and germans was also leaning into the dominant forms of racism against those groups. If it wasn't, your observation is irrelevant, if it was, your observation is; "It's not JUST racist against British people though".

If it were a video that portrayed Italians as stupid, lazy, superstitious, over-emotional and so on, then the second would apply. If it simply mocked them along similar lines it mocked the british, it would be irrelevant, because there isn't a persistant narrative pushed in our society about Italians having no culture worth acknowledging, and so it wouldn't be an element of anti-Italian racism.

I think you're taking an 11 year old childrens TV song that ends with a footman pouring sugar over Queen Victorias head a little bit too seriously....

It's not without context, and it aligns with an overall attitude the left and our cultural elites routinely espouse. In the context of childrens programming, the objection would be that it's brainwashing them into anti-British sentiment. "You're taking it too seriously because it's a cartoon" wouldn't fly with racism against another group.

[Fartsniffage]

I think you're taking an 11 year old childrens TV song that ends with a footman pouring sugar over Queen Victorias head a little bit too seriously....

It's not without context, and it aligns with an overall attitude the left and our cultural elites routinely espouse. In the context of childrens programming, the objection would be that it's brainwashing them into anti-British sentiment. "You're taking it too seriously because it's a cartoon" wouldn't fly with racism against another group.

From the same episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9g6kWoMHHs

[Nuroblav]

So without citing century old books, explain why sex must only be allowed within a monogamous marriage.

Because anything else, excluding the aforementioned relationships, is wrong and quite simply disgusting. Sex and marriage are, as I have said for the latter already, the ultimate expression of love and devotion. The two cannot and should not be divided.

So why should everyone else follow your views rather than having there own?

I think you're taking an 11 year old childrens TV song that ends with a footman pouring sugar over Queen Victorias head a little bit too seriously....

Series 1 of Horrible Histories is probably my least favourite one. Series 3 was great

[Kavagrad]

Meanwhile Andrew Neil is losing his mind over the fact the BBC dared to point out to kids that things we think of as stereotypically British are actually imports.

Like apparently it's "anti-British" to do that or something.

Attacking Horrible Histories is the real anti-British act, that's a cornerstone of our culture.

Teaching history isn't about making you feel all warm and patriotic inside. Grow up, Andrew.

[Souseiseki]

the root problem as always is england's broken society. divided between people who think the country is shite because they think it has nothing and people who think the country is great in their hearts but see it being shite every day and fruitlessly flounder with big gestures like brexit to restore the glory of days gone past.

of course the obvious answer to this problem was to destroy the two party system (hopefully helping to fix politics), rebuild british society from the ground up centered on community and economic reform (thereby fixing your broken society) and reorient britain towards being a member of/leader within within the european union (simultaneously getting you used to not running the world anymore while simultaneously allowing you to still have enough influence as a regional power to tickle that little part of you that still secretly entertains the big strong britain image). but well you've just gone and fucked all of that right up haven't you? so whatever.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm less concerned with the videos origins and more with retweeting it in the current context, where it is clear what message is being sent and to whom. It aligns neatly with the broader narrative on the UK and it's people advanced by a certain political faction and the institutions it controls, and their usage of the video needs to be viewed in that context.

The full video is the current context. It was made specifically for Brexit. Taking one part alone is taking it out of context.

This addresses the brainwashing allegation, but does not address it being retweeted and the message it conveys and is designed to convey In that context.

[Ostroeuropa]

the root problem as always is england's broken society. divided between people who think the country is shite because they think it has nothing and people who think the country is great in their hearts but see it being shite every day and fruitlessly flounder with big gestures like brexit to restore the glory of days gone past.

of course the obvious answer to this problem was to destroy the two party system (hopefully helping to fix politics), rebuild british society from the ground up centered on community and economic reform (thereby fixing your broken society) and reorient britain towards being a member of/leader within within the european union (simultaneously getting you used to not running the world anymore while simultaneously allowing you to still have enough influence as a regional power to tickle that little part of you that still secretly entertains the big strong britain image). but well you've just gone and fucked all of that right up haven't you? so whatever.

The European project became doomed when it became another reason for anti british racists to spout their nonsense daily. Your solution is the one that could have worked but only in the context of aggressively rejecting cultural elites and anti british racists and so on, and the left has spend decades denying such a thing is even real, let alone a vital problem that needs solving for our society to recover.

Brexit is only fruitless in terms of material impact. As a political statement of rejecting the progressive left and demonstrating large opposition to them it was important and useful. The next step is acknowledging the real problem and the real group we need to liberate ourselves from. Once that is done and the progressives are marginalised, a discussion on what British socialism looks like can occur. A british socialism that is not founded on our national character, values, and tastes will not succeed in uniting the electorate against capital, but such a conversation cannot occur while progressives are allowed to derail every conversation into yet more of their contempt for large swathes of the population and post modern nonsense.

I would also prefer we had remained. But so long as progressives were championing the EU, its rejection was inevitable. Perhaps once they are marginalised a discussion can be had on rejoining without that being a proxy for hatred and contempt of the British public.

[Nimzonia]

Meanwhile Andrew Neil is losing his mind over the fact the BBC dared to point out to kids that things we think of as stereotypically British are actually imports.

Next week's news: Brexiteers in meltdown over anti-British sentiment in Carry On Up The Khyber.

[Starblaydia]

In this example, and in plenty of others and the overarching remoaner narrative

Political nicknaming is not acceptable in this forum. Knock it off.

[Fartsniffage]

The full video is the current context. It was made specifically for Brexit. Taking one part alone is taking it out of context.

This addresses the brainwashing allegation, but does not address it being retweeted and the message it conveys and is designed to convey In that context.

Who is retweeting it? I hadn't even heard of the thing until people started getting all hot and bothered about it.

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664

Terrorist attack in London. People stabbed, twat shot by police.

[Gormwood]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664

Terrorist attack in London. People stabbed, twat shot by police.

Just great... now the Leavers are going to crow about how they were right assuming the police declare this another Islamist lone wolf.

[Agarntrop]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664

Terrorist attack in London. People stabbed, twat shot by police.

Just great... now the Leavers are going to crow about how they were right assuming the police declare this another Islamist lone wolf.

Shouldn't you be more concerned about the people stabbed?

[Albennia]

Because anything else, excluding the aforementioned relationships, is wrong and quite simply disgusting. Sex and marriage are, as I have said for the latter already, the ultimate expression of love and devotion. The two cannot and should not be divided.

So why should everyone else follow your views rather than having there own?

You are a self-professed anarcho-communist. It is a bit strange to ask me why I would want to change society to fit my views.

Meanwhile Andrew Neil is losing his mind over the fact the BBC dared to point out to kids that things we think of as stereotypically British are actually imports.

Like apparently it's "anti-British" to do that or something.

Attacking Horrible Histories is the real anti-British act, that's a cornerstone of our culture.

Teaching history isn't about making you feel all warm and patriotic inside. Grow up, Andrew.

Terry Deary is a deeply unpleasant person who dislikes libraries, teachers, education, and actual historians. Why his largely unfunny books (something I recognised when I first read them when I was, I don't know, 4 or 5 or 6?) got a rat-obsessed television series courtesy of the BBC I have no idea at all.

[Kavagrad]

Attacking Horrible Histories is the real anti-British act, that's a cornerstone of our culture.

Teaching history isn't about making you feel all warm and patriotic inside. Grow up, Andrew.

Terry Deary is a deeply unpleasant person who dislikes libraries, teachers, education, and actual historians. Why his largely unfunny books (something I recognised when I first read them when I was, I don't know, 4 or 5 or 6?) got a rat-obsessed television series courtesy of the BBC I have no idea at all.

Why do you hate Britain?

[Gormwood]

Just great... now the Leavers are going to crow about how they were right assuming the police declare this another Islamist lone wolf.

Shouldn't you be more concerned about the people stabbed?

I didn't know I was banned from expressing concerns over the political implications of an event.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Shouldn't you be more concerned about the people stabbed?

I didn't know I was banned from expressing concerns over the political implications of an event.

They're hardly the most relevant thing.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

the root problem as always is england's broken society. divided between people who think the country is shite because they think it has nothing and people who think the country is great in their hearts but see it being shite every day and fruitlessly flounder with big gestures like brexit to restore the glory of days gone past.

of course the obvious answer to this problem was to destroy the two party system (hopefully helping to fix politics), rebuild british society from the ground up centered on community and economic reform (thereby fixing your broken society) and reorient britain towards being a member of/leader within within the european union (simultaneously getting you used to not running the world anymore while simultaneously allowing you to still have enough influence as a regional power to tickle that little part of you that still secretly entertains the big strong britain image). but well you've just gone and fucked all of that right up haven't you? so whatever.

I don't see Britain as being great or shit, it's kind of middle of the road at the moment. There are better systems, there are much worse systems.

[The Huskar Social Union]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664

Terrorist attack in London. People stabbed, twat shot by police.

Just great... now the Leavers are going to crow about how they were right assuming the police declare this another Islamist lone wolf.

Fucking christ, thats what you focus on?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664

Terrorist attack in London. People stabbed, twat shot by police.

How fucking dumb are our police? Great, shoot him and lose any possibility of finding out if he's working with anybody.

Not to mention shooting people in general is almost always wrong.

[Fartsniffage]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51349664

Terrorist attack in London. People stabbed, twat shot by police.

How fucking dumb are our police? Great, shoot him and lose any possibility of finding out if he's working with anybody.

Not to mention shooting people in general is almost always wrong.

Eyewitnesses say he was wearing a vest with silver cylinders on it. It's a no brainer in that situation.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

How fucking dumb are our police? Great, shoot him and lose any possibility of finding out if he's working with anybody.

Not to mention shooting people in general is almost always wrong.

Eyewitnesses say he was wearing a vest with silver cylinders on it. It's a no brainer in that situation.

No it isn't. I don't even believe the police should carry guns, recent events show that armed cops are trigger-happy cops.

[Souseiseki]

Do you not care whether the private family unit is socialistic because if you accept that your overbroad definition of "socialism" inevitably requires you to accept that even the family is a socialist institution (by your definition)

no, i don't care because it's not relevant to my point. my point is that your definition of "socialism requires the state using force is wrong!!!" and therefore your argument of "that family cannot socialist because it does not involve the state using force" is patently wrong. whether the family in question is actually a socialist paradise, fascist nightmare or insane theocracy is ultimately irrelevant to this point.

that it will reveal your definition of "socialism" as self-evidently absurd? Again, your conception of socialism is de-linked from any idea of socialism being a political philosophy or a means for societal governance.

my conception of socialism is tied to worker ownership of their workplace and the means of production. and by extension that if you find yourself in such an arrangement within your workplace then you're a lot closer to socialism that you may have thought you were.

Those are all exercises of a property owner's autonomous power and control over his own property - a fundamental tenet of capitalism, not socialism.

frankly by your definition it seems like even workers in the russian civil war/early soviet union banding together to create worker owned and worker controlled factories does not count as socialism because there was no state to force them to. in fact, when you think about it, it's very capitalist!!! i hope that we will not have to have any discussion on whether or not this is quite silly.