American healthcare is going to fix itself

[The Emerald Legion]

You actually get better care in the US than in most of the industrial world. That's why it's more expensive. That, and we don't shoot the pharmaceuticals industry in the kneecap.

Medicine costs money to develop. Most of the world doesn't give a shit and basically nationalizes the recipe. The US doesn't and that's why we have better medicine. Because they can actually make a profit here.

If the rest of the world stopped with the commie shenanigans the prices would go down.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

This isn't an academic paper. Look it up yourself.

[Celritannia]

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

This isn't an academic paper. Look it up yourself.

This is a debate, you asserted a claim, therefore you have to provide evidence.

But yes, I did, and I edited my comment with evidence that shows the US is not that great in healthcare.

[Drumon]

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

This isn't an academic paper. Look it up yourself.

Almost every study on the subject shows US healthcare outcomes are similar or inferior to the rest of the developed world.

The prices are due grossly inflated doctor salaries, general cartel like business practices, and inflation resulting from overbilling insurance companies.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Why should private insurance providers have any place in health care? It's nothing more than an unnecessary middle man making money without offering anything.

Because they offer a lot, especially the most expensive plans.

Insurance is a way to smooth out people's risk factors. For instance, insurance for a house someplace especially prone to natural disasters is more expensive than insurance in a place less prone. The probability of a natural disaster can't be 0% in both, but can't be 100% in both, but they can't be precisely equal either, so everyone taking the same risk pools their money and those who have the bad luck of getting hit get compensated.

But with illness and injury, the probability is 100%, because if you don't get sick or injured by circumstance, you get sick or injured due to old age.

There is no reason for health insurance to exist. At all.

[Novus America]

Because they offer a lot, especially the most expensive plans.

Insurance is a way to smooth out people's risk factors. For instance, insurance for a house someplace especially prone to natural disasters is more expensive than insurance in a place less prone. The probability of a natural disaster can't be 0% in both, but can't be 100% in both, but they can't be precisely equal either, so everyone taking the same risk pools their money and those who have the bad luck of getting hit get compensated.

But with illness and injury, the probability is 100%, because if you don't get sick or injured by circumstance, you get sick or injured due to old age.

There is no reason for health insurance to exist. At all.

Umm we have life insurance too.
Everyone dies, but they do not die at the same time, nor does their death necessarily have the same costs.

And what is your alternative? Having the government pay and administer healthcare is still insurance. You are still spreading out the risk factors.

[Ethan Allen]

The best alternative would be a free market system without government control and regulations. Where hospitals and doctors are forced through competition to provide the best and most affordable healthcare options.

[Celritannia]

The best alternative would be a free market system without government control and regulations. Where hospitals and doctors are forced through competition to provide the best and most affordable healthcare options.

Again, that does not work. The US is failing because of it.
When people cannot afford healthcare how are they to help improve society?

[The Emerald Legion]

This isn't an academic paper. Look it up yourself.

Almost every study on the subject shows US healthcare outcomes are similar or inferior to the rest of the developed world.

The prices are due grossly inflated doctor salaries, general cartel like business practices, and inflation resulting from overbilling insurance companies.

And most studies are shit peddled by communists and Europeans.

There is some level of issue due to simple profiteering on the distance between insurance companies and the medical field. But pretending it's all just due to corporate greed is always propaganda.

[Celritannia]

Almost every study on the subject shows US healthcare outcomes are similar or inferior to the rest of the developed world.

The prices are due grossly inflated doctor salaries, general cartel like business practices, and inflation resulting from overbilling insurance companies.

And most studies are shit peddled by communists and Europeans.

There is some level of issue due to simple profiteering on the distance between insurance companies and the medical field. But pretending it's all just due to corporate greed is always propaganda.

Then provide your sources.

[Zurkerx]

Why should private insurance providers have any place in health care? It's nothing more than an unnecessary middle man making money without offering anything.

Because they provide people with options. And in many cases are superior to the government options. If they are inferior people will not buy them anyways. I would rather have Blue Cross the Medicare, which is not the greatest. But I would rather have Medicare than nothing.

Although I do support a government subsidized option for all those who want it or do not have healthcare. Medicare should be available to all who want and need it, but not forced on those that do not want or need it. And people should be allowed to provide additional and supplemental plans if the choose. (Because Medicare is mediocre at best, many people in it already get a supplemental plan). A problem with Medicare for all is Medicare is not very good.

And some of the most successful systems in the world have a combination of public and private plans.

Having Medicare available to all who do not have sufficient coverage from an alternative source is good. It will force the the private companies to behave better (because people have an alternative) yet at the same time also give people an option.

While ensuring universal coverage.

Pretty much this^. "Medicare for All" is a broad term: it means one thing to someone and another thing to someone else. In the case of Sanders, he would surely up the quality under a single payer though I doubt it could be sustained for long. Not to mention, forcing people on a government plan is not the greatest way to go either.

[Ethan Allen]

America does not have a free market healthcare system. We have an enormous burden of taxes and regulations.

Additionally, it’s curious that you can not find the prices of services from hospitals and doctors, until after you’ve been billed. You should be able to before hand, so you can find the best service for the best price.

[Celritannia]

America does not have a free market healthcare system. We have an enormous burden of taxes and regulations.

Additionally, it’s curious that you can not find the prices of services from hospitals and doctors, until after you’ve been billed. You should be able to before hand, so you can find the best service for the best price.

Yes, which mostly goes on bureaucracy. But the pharmaceutical companies are unregulated, charging a lot of money for drugs which people need.
And insurance in the US is highly expensive and depending if you are seriously ill, most insurance companies won't take on that patient.

The amount which people have to pay is far more than any other country.

[Ethan Allen]

I’m not disagreeing with you about what American healthcare is like for the common man. My wife has epilepsy, and if I were to buy the medicine that works for her here in the states, it would cost me around $6,000 with insurance every month. So we buy her prescriptions from Canada for $500 every month. What I’m disagreeing with you on, is the reason why our healthcare has put us in dire straights and the solution. I’m saying government is the problem. You’re saying government is the solution.

[Antityranicals]

America does not have a free market healthcare system. We have an enormous burden of taxes and regulations.

Additionally, it’s curious that you can not find the prices of services from hospitals and doctors, until after you’ve been billed. You should be able to before hand, so you can find the best service for the best price.

Yes, which mostly goes on bureaucracy. But the pharmaceutical companies are unregulated, charging a lot of money for drugs which people need.
And insurance in the US is highly expensive and depending if you are seriously ill, most insurance companies won;t take on that patient.

The amount which people have to pay is far more than any other country.

No, pharmaceutical companies are overregulated, which is why they can charge a lot of money for drugs that people need. The fact that it's so damned hard to become a pharmaceutical company is because of regulations, and that gives existing pharmaceutical companies monopoly privileges. Another issue is patents. I'm against patents, as they are a monopoly privilege bestowed on one company over all others. Patents are why drugs prices are so high. Get rid of them, at least where they pertain to drugs, and drug prices would drop by 90% or more.

[Celritannia]

I’m not disagreeing with you about what American healthcare is like for the common man. My wife has epilepsy, and if I were to buy the medicine that works for her here in the states, it would cost me around $6,000 with insurance every month. So we buy her prescriptions from Canada for $500 every month. What I’m disagreeing with you on, is the reason why our healthcare has put us in dire straights and the solution. I’m saying government is the problem. You’re saying government is the solution.

The Canadian Government helped you get those cheaper drugs because they regulate how much companies should charge.
So...

[Celritannia]

Yes, which mostly goes on bureaucracy. But the pharmaceutical companies are unregulated, charging a lot of money for drugs which people need.
And insurance in the US is highly expensive and depending if you are seriously ill, most insurance companies won;t take on that patient.

The amount which people have to pay is far more than any other country.

No, pharmaceutical companies are overregulated, which is why they can charge a lot of money for drugs that people need. The fact that it's so damned hard to become a pharmaceutical company is because of regulations, and that gives existing pharmaceutical companies monopoly privileges. Another issue is patents. I'm against patents, as they are a monopoly privilege bestowed on one company over all others. Patents are why drugs prices are so high. Get rid of them, at least where they pertain to drugs, and drug prices would drop by 90% or more.

So why do people in the US have to give up so much in order to buy the drugs they need?

When it comes to the US, their healthcare system, and how much insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies charge is far more than any other country.

[Ethan Allen]

The Canadian government didn’t have to pay to develop these drugs, and are ripping off the pharmaceutical company. So the Americans have to offset the loss of profit.

[Celritannia]

The Canadian government didn’t have to pay to develop these drugs, and are ripping off the pharmaceutical company. So the Americans have to offset the loss of profit.

So you do not like you got the help you needed to get those drugs cheaper for your wife?

The reason you could not afford the drugs in the first place was because how much american drug companies charge, and now you are defending they lost out despite being unable to afford them?

[Antityranicals]

No, pharmaceutical companies are overregulated, which is why they can charge a lot of money for drugs that people need. The fact that it's so damned hard to become a pharmaceutical company is because of regulations, and that gives existing pharmaceutical companies monopoly privileges. Another issue is patents. I'm against patents, as they are a monopoly privilege bestowed on one company over all others. Patents are why drugs prices are so high. Get rid of them, at least where they pertain to drugs, and drug prices would drop by 90% or more.

So why do people in the US have to give up so much in order to buy the drugs they need?

When it comes to the US, their healthcare system, and how much insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies charge is far more than any other country.

But the US also delivers far better quality than anywhere else in the world, even if at abhorrent prices. Cut patents, remove regulations, you get that quality, but at far, far lower prices.

[Celritannia]

So why do people in the US have to give up so much in order to buy the drugs they need?

When it comes to the US, their healthcare system, and how much insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies charge is far more than any other country.

But the US also delivers far better quality than anywhere else in the world, even if at abhorrent prices. Cut patents, remove regulations, you get that quality, but at far, far lower prices.

No, it does not:

https://fr.april-international.com/en/h ... re-systems

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countr ... the-world/

https://www.healtheuropa.eu/worlds-best ... ems/92537/

At least, not in the developed countries, it's one of the worst.

[Antityranicals]

But the US also delivers far better quality than anywhere else in the world, even if at abhorrent prices. Cut patents, remove regulations, you get that quality, but at far, far lower prices.

No, it does not:

https://fr.april-international.com/en/h ... re-systems

The fact that the UK appears at the front of that list proves how much of a joke it is.

A little bit about their track record.

Also, governments tend to be way better at fudging these sorts of tests than private organizations. Private organizations are concerned about customers, not some stupid international standards.

[Celritannia]

No, it does not:

https://fr.april-international.com/en/h ... re-systems

The fact that the UK appears at the front of that list proves how much of a joke it is.

A little bit about their track record.

Most of that is incorrect.
The main problem for the NHS is the Tory Government wanting to privatise and remove vital hospital departments from certain areas.

[Fartsniffage]

No, it does not:

https://fr.april-international.com/en/h ... re-systems

The fact that the UK appears at the front of that list proves how much of a joke it is.

A little bit about their track record.

Also, governments tend to be way better at fudging these sorts of tests than private organizations. Private organizations are concerned about customers, not some stupid international standards.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical ... erica.html

Just saying...

[Antityranicals]

The fact that the UK appears at the front of that list proves how much of a joke it is.

A little bit about their track record.

Most of that is incorrect.
The main problem for the NHS is due to the Tory Government wanting to privatise and remove vital hospital departments from certain areas.

The point is, every healthcare system on Earth is garbage. The US healthcare system hasn't really been private since the sixties anyway. Calling it private is like calling Cuba capitalist. Ultimately, US healthcare is screwed up for a number of reasons, but every single one would not be possible if it weren't for the government. In a free market society, health insurance probably wouldn't even be a thing, just like food insurance isn't a thing. People would just pay out of pocket. And it would be cheap.

[Tinhampton]

No, it does not:

https://fr.april-international.com/en/h ... re-systems

The fact that the UK appears at the front of that list proves how much of a joke it is.

A little bit about their track record.

ONE: The Shrewsbury and Telford Hospital NHS Trust is, by its nature and relatively small sample size, unrepresentative of the entire NHS.
TWO: The Commonwealth Fund study was carried out some time before Donna Ockenden's review and ranks us second-bottom for Health Outcomes.