American healthcare is going to fix itself

[Celritannia]

The reason private healthcare exists is because healthcare is a service, not a right.

The reason Private Healthcare exits was because it was a paying profession before people formed unions in order to get better healthcare.

Private Healthcare was too expensive for the common person, and the US is the perfect example why privatised healthcare where businesses thrive off for-profit medicine does not work.

[Ethan Allen]

My point still remains.

[Celritannia]

My point still remains.

And it is incorrect, as the evidence shows universal healthcare is cheaper and better for everyone.

Healthcare is a right. How you implement it is different.

I'll also link this:
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/st ... -right/en/

“The enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health is one of the fundamental rights of every human being without distinction of race, religion, political belief, economic or social condition”

[Ethan Allen]

How you implement it is also a right. Taxation is theft, so universal healthcare would be a violation of private property rights. Additionally, universal healthcare does not make it more affordable when you look at every aspect of it.

Healthcare is not a right. If it was, that would mean you have the right to be served by others Aka slavery. You have the right to SEEK healthcare. There is a fundamental difference.

[Novus America]

I do not agree with the OP.

The American healthcare system is indeed in need of fixing. However, the only approach I would support is one that follows a free market approach, free from the molestation of government with its taxes and regulations.

Yeah, no. That's a terrible idea.
If you look above, there are links provided to show how a Universal Healthcare system is actually beneficial.
And countries like Japan and Germany have Universal Insurance where the Government sets the rates and subsidise those that cannot afford.

Private companies providing healthcare for business is actually worse for the people.

In Germany private companies are involved in providing healthcare. ONLY private companies with no public option or public support are worse for the people.
But again as I pointed out and you agreed, private companies providing some of the care can exist in a universal system. And that is not necessarily harmful.

[Jebslund]

The reason private healthcare exists is because healthcare is a service, not a right.

"The reason private healthcare exists is because life is a privilege, not a right."

[Ethan Allen]

The reason private healthcare exists is because healthcare is a service, not a right.

"The reason private healthcare exists is because life is a privilege, not a right."

You have the right to life, sure. But you don’t have the right to force other people to provide you with healthcare. You have the right to seek healthcare. There’s a key difference.

[Celritannia]

How you implement it is also a right. Taxation is theft, so universal healthcare would be a violation of private property rights. Additionally, universal healthcare does not make it more affordable when you look at every aspect of it.

Taxation is not theft.

Then why do countries like Germany and Japan, with Universal Insurance have better healthcare and spend less money than the US?

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answer ... thcare.asp

The situation was roughly the same five years ago back in 2012. OECD data listed the U.S. as the country with the largest healthcare spending, sitting at $8,745 per capita. Compare this to Turkey, which spent $984 per capita on healthcare in 2012 and $1,193 in 2017—one of the lowest of any developed country.

But if you can provide evidence to show a UHC system is more expensive than a Private one, I'll be more than happy to accept your point.

[Jebslund]

"The reason private healthcare exists is because life is a privilege, not a right."

You have the right to life, sure. But you don’t have the right to force other people to provide you with healthcare. You have the right to seek healthcare. There’s a key difference.

So you only have a right to life if you living doesn't require medical treatment.

In other words, you believe living is a privilege, but won't ever admit it because that would make you look bad.

As to your assertion that taxation is theft, is your landlord a thief if you rent an apartment and they sue you for unpaid rent?

[Celritannia]

Yeah, no. That's a terrible idea.
If you look above, there are links provided to show how a Universal Healthcare system is actually beneficial.
And countries like Japan and Germany have Universal Insurance where the Government sets the rates and subsidise those that cannot afford.

Private companies providing healthcare for business is actually worse for the people.

In Germany private companies are involved in providing healthcare. ONLY private companies with no public option or public support are worse for the people.
But again as I pointed out and you agreed, private companies providing some of the care can exist in a universal system. And that is not necessarily harmful.

This is true, but the German Government also sets the standards of how much the private companies should charge to make sure it isn't too expensive, and also subsidises those who cannot afford.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

*yells over the border*

Just use the Canadian system already! It works!

[Ethan Allen]

Taxation is absolutely theft. If I don’t want universal healthcare, yet I am forced to pay for it, that is theft via extortion.

Easy google search provided this, that universal healthcare is too expensive. Anything the government touches, it increases the cost of. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/05/24/cal ... ntary.html

[Celritannia]

Taxation is absolutely theft. If I don’t want universal healthcare, yet I am forced to pay for it, that is theft via extortion.

Easy google search provided this, that universal healthcare is too expensive. Anything the government touches, it increases the cost of. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2017/05/24/cal ... ntary.html

You were born in the US, you are a US Citizen, in order to get the benefits of being a US citizen, you have to pay tax. Name one country where there are no taxes.

Yet you do not get to decide where your taxes go. That's the Government's job.
In fact, the US health system has too much government bureaucracy.

Also, the link means very little considering there are perfect examples around the world on how Universal Healthcare is cheaper and works brilliantly.

[Novus America]

In Germany private companies are involved in providing healthcare. ONLY private companies with no public option or public support are worse for the people.
But again as I pointed out and you agreed, private companies providing some of the care can exist in a universal system. And that is not necessarily harmful.

This is true, but the German Government also sets the standards of how much the private companies should charge to make sure it isn't too expensive, and also subsidises those who cannot afford.

Yes. It is the the method that would make most sense for us to implement.

[Novus America]

*yells over the border*

Just use the Canadian system already! It works!

It works in some respects yes, but has major problems and is not the best system.
It is not the model I would pick. The German one is better.

[Cisairse]

The reason private healthcare exists is because healthcare is a service, not a right.

Life is not a right?

The U.S. Declaration of Independence, the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the European Convention on Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, and a whole host of other such documents would strongly disagree with you.

[South Ccanda]

I have a question. Can we not have Universal healthcare and private healthcare at the same time? Like, the Beverage Control store can sell alcohol, but so can the gas station down the road, so why can't we do that with healthcare?

[Celritannia]

I have a question. Can we not have Universal healthcare and private healthcare at the same time? Like, the Beverage Control store can sell alcohol, but so can the gas station down the road, so why can't we do that with healthcare?

You can have a Universal Healthcare System, and a Private Healthcare system at the same time.

As Novus and I have also mentioned, Germany and Japan use a form of Universal Healthcare which is Universal Insurance. It is a system where Private Insurance is the main aspect of healthcare, but the Government sets the insurance prices and subsidises those who cannot afford.
It is also known as Social Health Insurance or the Bismark Model.

[Chessmistress]

Beyond the provision of a public option, government has no place in healthcare.

Didn't you claim to be a pious christian helping other people?

I ask because such message seems more worthy of a radical anarchist who doesn't care about other people, or something like that.

[Czechostan]

Healthcare is not a right. If it was, that would mean you have the right to be served by others Aka slavery. You have the right to SEEK healthcare. There is a fundamental difference.

You have peculiar definitions of both rights and slavery...

[Novus America]

I have a question. Can we not have Universal healthcare and private healthcare at the same time? Like, the Beverage Control store can sell alcohol, but so can the gas station down the road, so why can't we do that with healthcare?

Or schools would be a better example. But yes it is absolutely possible and done successfully in several places like Germany.

[Novus America]

This is a good article on the main healthcare models:
https://www.pnhp.org/single_payer_resou ... models.php

[The Emerald Legion]

You actually get better care in the US than in most of the industrial world. That's why it's more expensive. That, and we don't shoot the pharmaceuticals industry in the kneecap.

Medicine costs money to develop. Most of the world doesn't give a shit and basically nationalizes the recipe. The US doesn't and that's why we have better medicine. Because they can actually make a profit here.

If the rest of the world stopped with the commie shenanigans the prices would go down.

[Celritannia]

You actually get better care in the US than in most of the industrial world. That's why it's more expensive. That, and we don't shoot the pharmaceuticals industry in the kneecap.

Medicine costs money to develop. Most of the world doesn't give a shit and basically nationalizes the recipe. The US doesn't and that's why we have better medicine. Because they can actually make a profit here.

If the rest of the world stopped with the commie shenanigans the prices would go down.

Do you have evidence to support this claim?

Because this article lists the top 10 countries for Healthcare, and the US is number 11:

https://fr.april-international.com/en/h ... re-systems

All these countries also have some form of Universal Healthcare.

[Penguin Union Nation]

Healthcare is not a right. If it was, that would mean you have the right to be served by others Aka slavery.

Excuse me, slavery? Will the doctors be forced to be doctors? Will they not be paid for being doctors? Will they be unable to find other work?

That is a very dumb comparison. Healthcare should be considered a right, because without your health, you cannot do anything else.