How to slam down on nepotism?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

We often hear that it's not what you know, but who you know, that gets you hired. How can we help resolve this? I have two ideas in mind.

A. Require all businesses to publish a formula of objectively measurable credentials; eg. your grades in relevant courses multiplied by this, plus your number of hours worked in similar jobs multiplied by that, etc... such that any hiring decision at odds with that formula will stick out like a sore thumb.

B. Prohibit employment in one's country of birth, or any other country in which you've previously been employed in a separate job. That way you can't use "who you know" from a previous job for employment in the same country as before.

I assume B is unenforceable, though I do hope future generations come up with a way to enforce it; that'll have the added benefit of making people travel and meet people from other countries, instead of clinging to their home countries like nationalists. What about A, though? Is A enforceable? I'm thinking it might be a good placeholder for now until/unless society were to go through with B.

[Tinhampton]

What point is there in banning somebody from Alaska from seeking employment in Maine because his sister's sister's next-door neighbour's dog's original owner's nephew's grandfather's brother's daughter's next-door neighbour might be working for one of the companies over there?

[Asle Leopolka]

We often hear that it's not what you know, but who you know, that gets you hired. How can we help resolve this? I have two ideas in mind.

A. Require all businesses to publish a formula of objectively measurable credentials; eg. your grades in relevant courses multiplied by this, plus your number of hours worked in similar jobs multiplied by that, etc... such that any hiring decision at odds with that formula will stick out like a sore thumb.

B. Prohibit employment in one's country of birth, or any other country in which you've previously been employed in a separate job. That way you can't use "who you know" from a previous job for employment in the same country as before.

I assume B is unenforceable, though I do hope future generations come up with a way to enforce it; that'll have the added benefit of making people travel and meet people from other countries, instead of clinging to their home countries like nationalists. What about A, though? Is A enforceable? I'm thinking it might be a good placeholder for now until/unless society were to go through with B.

You've obviously never hired (or fired) anybody. If we went off grades and hours worked then a lot of incredibly inefficient people would be hired. Experience, proven results, and critical thinking are what matters most. I've interviewed people who had stellar grades but when it came time for them to demonstrate how to apply it to business problems they shit the bed.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

What point is there in banning somebody from Alaska from seeking employment in Maine because his sister's sister's next-door neighbour's dog's original owner's nephew's grandfather's brother's daughter's next-door neighbour might be working for one of the companies over there?

People travel all over the USA for work all the time, but a near-majority of Americans don't own a passport, which is something you need for overseas work. This suggests that a lot more Americans have, over the generations, made connections with people on the other side of the country than with people overseas.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

You've obviously never hired (or fired) anybody. If we went off grades and hours worked then a lot of incredibly inefficient people would be hired.

Take it up with the education system, then. They're paying billions of tax dollars for assessment of skill. It's not enough to accuse them of wasting it and then washing your hands of the problem.

Experience, proven results, and critical thinking are what matters most.

Then these things need to be assessed objectively. Which means, "not by a corporation with a financial interest in making them doubt their own worth so they can be underpaid with impunity."

[Sarzonia]

There isn't anything you can do to completely remove all subjectivity from a hiring decision.

Yes, there are criteria you can set up that make it unlikely anyone without the required background can even get in the door for a first interview, but once someone gets past the (often electronic) gatekeeper and in front of a hiring manager, anything that isn't objectively quantifiable can be incredibly subjective.

Sure, there are certain qualities and traits any hiring manager wants to see from someone who interviews, but there are intangibles you can never write into a job description.

As far as stamping out nepotism is concerned, I've seen sections of hiring manuals that require the manager to outline specific justifications why the relative, friend, etc. really is the best hire for the job, and not just because his father is the owner's best friend and golfing buddy.

[The Blaatschapen]

We often hear that it's not what you know, but who you know, that gets you hired. How can we help resolve this? I have two ideas in mind.

A. Require all businesses to publish a formula of objectively measurable credentials; eg. your grades in relevant courses multiplied by this, plus your number of hours worked in similar jobs multiplied by that, etc... such that any hiring decision at odds with that formula will stick out like a sore thumb.

B. Prohibit employment in one's country of birth, or any other country in which you've previously been employed in a separate job. That way you can't use "who you know" from a previous job for employment in the same country as before.

I assume B is unenforceable, though I do hope future generations come up with a way to enforce it; that'll have the added benefit of making people travel and meet people from other countries, instead of clinging to their home countries like nationalists. What about A, though? Is A enforceable? I'm thinking it might be a good placeholder for now until/unless society were to go through with B.

A is not objective. It has the semblance of objectivity, since you just put a lot of subjective matter into numbers, but that just makes the numbers subjective.

Have you ever hired somebody? Been at the hiring side of an interview? Not only will people look at your qualifications, but also on your personality, how you fit into the team, etc.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

There isn't anything you can do to completely remove all subjectivity from a hiring decision.

Yes, there are criteria you can set up that make it unlikely anyone without the required background can even get in the door for a first interview, but once someone gets past the (often electronic) gatekeeper and in front of a hiring manager, anything that isn't objectively quantifiable can be incredibly subjective.

Sure, there are certain qualities and traits any hiring manager wants to see from someone who interviews, but there are intangibles you can never write into a job description.

As far as stamping out nepotism is concerned, I've seen sections of hiring manuals that require the manager to outline specific justifications why the relative, friend, etc. really is the best hire for the job, and not just because his father is the owner's best friend and golfing buddy.

Family relations can be proven, but friendships cannot. As such, that creates plausible deniability for nepotism that only the requirement to make all hiring criteria objectively definable and verifiable can stamp out.

[Diopolis]

Don't. Nepotism is natural and healthy. It only creates a problem when it gets out of control.

[Ethel mermania]

If I own the company, why not hire my cousins or their kids?

[Asle Leopolka]

You've obviously never hired (or fired) anybody. If we went off grades and hours worked then a lot of incredibly inefficient people would be hired.

Take it up with the education system, then. They're paying billions of tax dollars for assessment of skill. It's not enough to accuse them of wasting it and then washing your hands of the problem.

That's not how universities in this country work. It's one thing to know material and another entirely to be able to apply it, especially when you enter business.

Experience, proven results, and critical thinking are what matters most.

Then these things need to be assessed objectively. Which means, "not by a corporation with a financial interest in making them doubt their own worth so they can be underpaid with impunity."

There is no objective measure for this. If you're a good salesman in industry X but are applying for jobs in industry Y, I'm going to hire the average salesman with years of experience in Industry Y because he'll be able to generate profit more quickly and provide a better ROI.

Plus, EVERY corporation has a financial interest. Even non-profits and public sector - they don't want to waste money.

Fit > credentials. Anyone who doesn't realize or accept this is just kidding themselves.

[The Black Forrest]

Depends on the situation. If the person is competent; is it really nepotism?

At one time I was a case of nepotism. My step-father was my over all boss. I was treated harsher then the average employee. There were never comments about my relation. There were comments of fuuuuck over incidents. He never wanted it to appear I got the job because we were related.

In my last job I was a little disturbed over how Indians practice it with little thought. The nephew of the CIO committed software piracy in a company worth billions. They gave one vendor a million dollars go make it go away. If I was in charge I would have been tossed on my ear without thought. The nephew? He was promoted. There was the case of the virtualization expert where I taught her to do her job. She had a healthy income. Paid far more then me. She was also the sister of a VP. There were many more cases....

I don't mind "nepotism" when the people are competent at their jobs.

[Luziyca]

Get your family members to change their surnames before you hire them. That way, it won't be as obvious that you're committing nepotism.

[Ifreann]

Abolish capitalism?

[Farnhamia]

Abolish capitalism?

It has been suggested. My cousin ... never mind.

[Ifreann]

Abolish capitalism?

It has been suggested. My cousin ... never mind.

Knows Karl Marx? Met him eating mushrooms in the People's Park?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Get your family members to change their surnames before you hire them. That way, it won't be as obvious that you're committing nepotism.

And then a DNA test will get you on nepotism AND on tampering with the evidence thereof.

If I own the company, why not hire my cousins or their kids?

Because your customers deserve better?

There is no objective measure for this.

So it's a "know it when you see it" thing? Sounds like a suspiciously convenient excuse for concealing one's real reasons for one's hiring decisions.

[Ethel mermania]

Get your family members to change their surnames before you hire them. That way, it won't be as obvious that you're committing nepotism.

And then a DNA test will get you on nepotism AND on tampering with the evidence thereof.

If I own the company, why not hire my cousins or their kids?

Because your customers deserve better?

There is no objective measure for this.

So it's a "know it when you see it" thing? Sounds like a suspiciously convenient excuse for concealing one's real reasons for one's hiring decisions.

My customers get the service they pay for, just because my cousins kids may not be the best for their job, they would at least have to be competent for it.

Now if you were talking public sector not private, I would agree with you.

[Heloin]

What point is there in banning somebody from Alaska from seeking employment in Maine because his sister's sister's next-door neighbour's dog's original owner's nephew's grandfather's brother's daughter's next-door neighbour might be working for one of the companies over there?

People travel all over the USA for work all the time, but a near-majority of Americans don't own a passport, which is something you need for overseas work.

You don't check passports when crossing state lines.

This suggests that a lot more Americans have, over the generations, made connections with people on the other side of the country than with people overseas.

I think that's probably true for just about any country.

[Luziyca]

Get your family members to change their surnames before you hire them. That way, it won't be as obvious that you're committing nepotism.

And then a DNA test will get you on nepotism AND on tampering with the evidence thereof.

The state has far more important things to deal with than petty nepotism.

[Farnhamia]

It has been suggested. My cousin ... never mind.

Knows Karl Marx? Met him eating mushrooms in the People's Park?

Oh, I knew Herr Marx when he was living in London. He knew all the best German pastry shops in the city. I liked his family, too.

[Aclion]

The best way to slam down on nepotism is to have a robust legal institution which can fairly enforce property rights, right to contract and liability. Nepotism usually crops up in place where these institutions are lacking, and people resort to leveraging other social institutions to replace them, like family, religious groups or tribes.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

And then a DNA test will get you on nepotism AND on tampering with the evidence thereof.

The state has far more important things to deal with than petty nepotism.

What's to stop your customers from doing it?

My customers get the service they pay for, just because my cousins kids may not be the best for their job, they would at least have to be competent for it.

So it's "buyer beware," then?

[Farnhamia]

The state has far more important things to deal with than petty nepotism.

What's to stop your customers from doing it?

My customers get the service they pay for, just because my cousins kids may not be the best for their job, they would at least have to be competent for it.

So it's "buyer beware," then?

It's always been that. I have to ask you, though, why do you think nepotism is such a huge problem on the local, everyday level, one requiring massive government intervention?

[Czechostan]

Put my cousin in charge of fighting nepotism; I'm sure he'll solve the problem.