Centrist Discussion Thread - Stuck in the Middle

[Crylante]

Personally I think it's almost impossible for one to be truly centrist.

If you were to define centrism as taking a middle ground on every issue, you would have to be truly, completely apathetic to every issue that presents itself to society to not have a view on most issues.

If by centrism you mean the aggregate of your views to be in the centre, then I find the issue to be with that that although the aggregate of your views may be supposedly centrist, you will always inevitably prioritise certain issues over others and on those issues you will likely have fairly uniform stances which will mean that you end up leaning either to the left or the right.

I understand that there is a difference between moderacy and radicalism and pragmatism and dogmatism, but I think to be truly in the middle is hard and almost everyone politically involved leans even ever so slightly one way or another through prioritising certain issues.

[Upper Secundus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln7Vn_WKkWU

There's your theme song for the thread.

[Senkaku]

i will come to this thread whenever I need to read some truly smoov bwain takes

[Vascottozer]

In my opinion they both have good ideas we can take on board. You will all probably disagree with me, but there you go.

I agree with you but that being said, they definitely cause more problems than they fix.

This is why I do not support going to just one extreme. Some will support it hugely, but most people probably wouldn't support it. Instead I wanta society that caters to all at once, rather than creating a system nobody wholeheartedly supports.

[Baltenstein]

Fellow persons, let us all rally to the Centrist cause in the most moderate and sensible way possible. (Note the lack of exclamation marks, born out of centrist aversion to any kind of zealotry.)

[Rojava Free State]

If you think about it, rodney king was the based centrist. During the trial of the police officers who beat him, with an angry mob gathering across LA against the police, he said "can't we all just get along?"

[New Bremerton]

I attempted to start a liberal discussion megathread last year that was separate from the LWDT, RWDT, and libertarian megathreads, but it got locked, the reason given being that there have been far too many political ideology megathreads floating around. I'm a liberal, therefore I'm a centrist. Liberalism in its original "pure" form, is a centrist ideology in contrast to socialism on the left and conservatism on the right. While many if not most self-proclaimed "liberals" identify as left-leaning "progressives" and frequently embrace woke identity politics, I am one of the few who do not, and I don't identify as libertarian either.

I think the reason centrist threads tend to die off is that, as some posters have said, there is no single, overarching centrist narrative or ideology against which other existing narratives can be readily juxtaposed. Christian democracy is as distinct from classical liberalism as socialism is from conservatism. Libertarianism and authoritarianism transcend the left-right spectrum, and anarchism and totalitarianism are extremes of both, respectively.

[Rojava Free State]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HFlcEM49cSk

A good documentary to watch if you have time and nothing to do.

[Chan Island]

I used to be a centrist until last year to be honest, and still wish them well in every case, so hopefully this thread goes far.

Switched when I realised just the sheer scale of how stacked the deck will be against normal people vs elites with the way technology is going, and also at the realisation that all of these people suddenly voting for radical parties must be doing so for a damn good reason.

Fellow persons, let us all rally to the Centrist cause in the most moderate and sensible way possible. (Note the lack of exclamation marks, born out of centrist aversion to any kind of zealotry.)

"What do we want?!"

"Change!"

"When do we want it?!"

"In due course!"

[Nuroblav]

I attempted to start a liberal discussion megathread last year that was separate from the LWDT, RWDT, and libertarian megathreads, but it got locked, the reason given being that there have been far too many political ideology megathreads floating around. I'm a liberal, therefore I'm a centrist. Liberalism in its original "pure" form, is a centrist ideology in contrast to socialism on the left and conservatism on the right. While many if not most self-proclaimed "liberals" identify as left-leaning "progressives" and frequently embrace woke identity politics, I am one of the few who do not, and I don't identify as libertarian either.

Not that term again >-<

But yeah when I was liberal I didn't embrace identity politics either (and it's still the same case now), although I still identify as libertarian.

[Czechostan]

Whenever I think of centrism, I always think of its place on the Spongebob political chart.

[Cekoviu]

I attempted to start a liberal discussion megathread last year that was separate from the LWDT, RWDT, and libertarian megathreads, but it got locked, the reason given being that there have been far too many political ideology megathreads floating around. I'm a liberal, therefore I'm a centrist. Liberalism in its original "pure" form, is a centrist ideology in contrast to socialism on the left and conservatism on the right. While many if not most self-proclaimed "liberals" identify as left-leaning "progressives" and frequently embrace woke identity politics, I am one of the few who do not, and I don't identify as libertarian either.

Not that term again >-<

But yeah when I was liberal I didn't embrace identity politics either (and it's still the same case now), although I still identify as libertarian.

Whenever I think of centrism, I always think of its place on the Spongebob political chart.

(Image)

That chart is literal nonsense, probably unironically so.

[Nuroblav]

Not that term again >-<

But yeah when I was liberal I didn't embrace identity politics either (and it's still the same case now), although I still identify as libertarian.

I mean, it really depends what form. The more radical forms seem to only divide society more.

[Agarntrop]

Identify as centre-left social democrat, do I fit?

[New Bremerton]

Identify as centre-left social democrat, do I fit?

Off to the LWDT you go!

[Nuroblav]

Identify as centre-left social democrat, do I fit?

Off to the LWDT you go!

I mean, he could come over but I think they should be fine here.

[Nimzonia]

What makes a man turn centrist? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of centrism?

[New Bremerton]

Off to the LWDT you go!

I mean, he could come over but I think they should be fine here.

Center-left and center-right cast a really wide net IMO. Barack Obama (moderately left-leaning social liberal) and Boris Johnson (moderately right-leaning liberal conservative) would qualify as centrists if we include these categories.

[Outer Sparta]

I attempted to start a liberal discussion megathread last year that was separate from the LWDT, RWDT, and libertarian megathreads, but it got locked, the reason given being that there have been far too many political ideology megathreads floating around. I'm a liberal, therefore I'm a centrist. Liberalism in its original "pure" form, is a centrist ideology in contrast to socialism on the left and conservatism on the right. While many if not most self-proclaimed "liberals" identify as left-leaning "progressives" and frequently embrace woke identity politics, I am one of the few who do not, and I don't identify as libertarian either.

I think the reason centrist threads tend to die off is that, as some posters have said, there is no single, overarching centrist narrative or ideology against which other existing narratives can be readily juxtaposed. Christian democracy is as distinct from classical liberalism as socialism is from conservatism. Libertarianism and authoritarianism transcend the left-right spectrum, and anarchism and totalitarianism are extremes of both, respectively.

The term liberal has so many meanings that people misuse the term often. I'm not a liberal, but in US politics I would be. In actuality I'm a social democrat and I identify more with the European definitions than the American ones.

[Senkaku]

centrists, what is the overton window on acceptable dipping sauces for French fries

[Nakena]

The poll should include Enlightened Centrism™ too.

[Kowani]

The poll should include Enlightened Centrism™ too.

“Has half the Jews”
“Guillotine only some of the aristocracy”
“Bash half the Nazis”
“Abolish only some governments.

[New Bremerton]

I attempted to start a liberal discussion megathread last year that was separate from the LWDT, RWDT, and libertarian megathreads, but it got locked, the reason given being that there have been far too many political ideology megathreads floating around. I'm a liberal, therefore I'm a centrist. Liberalism in its original "pure" form, is a centrist ideology in contrast to socialism on the left and conservatism on the right. While many if not most self-proclaimed "liberals" identify as left-leaning "progressives" and frequently embrace woke identity politics, I am one of the few who do not, and I don't identify as libertarian either.

I think the reason centrist threads tend to die off is that, as some posters have said, there is no single, overarching centrist narrative or ideology against which other existing narratives can be readily juxtaposed. Christian democracy is as distinct from classical liberalism as socialism is from conservatism. Libertarianism and authoritarianism transcend the left-right spectrum, and anarchism and totalitarianism are extremes of both, respectively.

The term liberal has so many meanings that people misuse the term often. I'm not a liberal, but in US politics I would be. In actuality I'm a social democrat and I identify more with the European definitions than the American ones.

Socialism is unambiguously left-wing while conservatism is unambiguously right-wing. But liberalism can span the spectrum from left to middle to right instead of aligning firmly in the middle. Both liberalism and centrism suffer from the absence of a clear and unambiguous definition that is agreed upon by most people of all political stripes to a far greater degree than left-wing socialism or right-wing conservatism, and even those latter two political traditions are also somewhat vague and ill-defined, so that's saying a lot.

It's a shame that many conservatives and many self-identified, woke liberals themselves don't really understand what true liberalism actually entails. It's also a shame that liberalism is frequently conflated with socialism by conservatives, particularly in the United States, and "neoliberal" conservatism by socialists, particularly in Europe. Centrist liberals like myself are caught between a rock and a hard place. Conservatives and leftists need to recognize that they have more in common with each other than they realize and emphasize these commonalities with a view to creating a more open, liberal, diverse and highly eclectic marketplace of ideas instead of attempting to further divide society down the middle and marginalize moderate centrists and independents. For at least the past three to four hundred years, Western civilization has been, at its very core, an ongoing social experiment in liberal ideology that continues to permeate every aspect of people's lives both within the Western world and to varying degrees beyond its traditional cultural boundaries, regardless of whether its key architects and proponents, past and present, self-identify as liberal or not. Western values and liberalism are considered virtually synonymous in non-Western societies, particularly among non-Western hardline conservatives and fundamentalists opposed to any kind of change.

Liberalism stands for individual liberty and responsibility, self-determination and actualization, democracy, freedom of speech, the rule of law, due process, human rights, the free and open exchange of ideas, and all of the other basic civil and political rights that Westerners take for granted. Liberalism is, at its very core, what the people of Hong Kong are fighting to defend until their very last breath, and Western liberals, conservatives and socialists alike all stand in solidarity with the people of that beleaguered city-state. I'm unsure as to whether my conception of what constitutes liberalism aligns with the European or American conception, or whether it is an eclectic mixture of both strands. I'm not even sure what the difference really is, if there's even a difference to begin with.

Modern left-liberals and conservatives in the West generally endorse the abovementioned set of values but disagree as to whether they are "liberal" or "conservative" in essence. Left-liberals increasingly tend to emphasize woke identity politics and equality of outcome as noble aspirations for the common good of all, which is more akin to the kind of collectivist politics of envy traditionally associated with socialism in opposition to the principle of individual merit and equality of opportunity. Western conservatives prefer to emphasize "traditional Judeo-Christian values" in opposition to secularism as well as Enlightenment and classical Greco-Roman principles. In this sense, both groups deviate to some degree from the original goals and intent of liberalism. Because Western liberals, conservatives and social democrats are generally in agreement with the abovementioned set of values, this would make liberalism a centrist ideology not only historically and theoretically, but also in practice in the 21st century.

Yet even my version of centrist liberalism differs significantly from old-school classical liberalism and libertarianism in that I still tend to lean left on economic issues and favor a somewhat higher degree of government intervention in the form of a social safety net for the poor and decisive action to stave off the threat of climate change, but I also favor certain policies typically associated with conservatives, such as the death penalty for murder, stricter immigration controls and opposition to woke identity politics. My views on gun rights are actually rather conflicted and undecided, in stereotypically centrist style. I would describe my centrist views as modern classical liberalism in contrast to the old-school classical liberalism of the Baroque, neoclassical, Romantic and Impressionist eras, to borrow an analogy from the arts and humanities. It is the political analog to Ludovico Einaudi, Andy Warhol and J.K. Rowling, rather than Ludwig von Beethoven, Vincent van Gogh and Charles Dickens.

[New Bremerton]

The poll should include Enlightened Centrism™ too.

The poll should include liberal centrism. None of the other options work for me.

[New Bremerton]

The poll should include Enlightened Centrism™ too.

“Has half the Jews”
“Guillotine only some of the aristocracy”
“Bash half the Nazis”
“Abolish only some governments.

Seize the means of only some production.
Strip only half the Queen of her royal status.
Hold democratic elections only some of the time.
Send political dissidents only halfway to prison.