NationStates

Thermodolia wrote:

Great Algerstonia wrote:Too late for that. There’s at least a dozen U.S. cases being tested now.

63 actually

Mind you, not all of them will have turned out to have it. But... yeah.

Satuga wrote:I'd be more worried about getting it due to the hospital bill tbh.

Same here. I wash my hands religiously to keep the medical debt away.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Said lab had leaks. Also SARS came from a Chinese lab. It’s not crazy to think that they might be related

It kinda is, it’s needless and baseless conspiratorial yarn spinning.

It’s really not that crazy

Thermodolia wrote:

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:TIL newly emerged viruses can’t just be a natural occurrence anymore, they have to be the work of a secret nefarious biological weapons program, they just have to be!

Said lab had leaks. Also SARS came from a Chinese lab. It’s not crazy to think that they might be related.

Also China is being extremely tight lipped about it. They claim it came from snakes and there’s limited human to human contact. That’s absolutely bullshit.

They don’t want to admit that they fucked up and admit they had a leak at a CDC style level-4 facility

Thermodolia wrote:

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:It kinda is, it’s needless and baseless conspiratorial yarn spinning.

It’s really not that crazy

Thermodolia wrote:Said lab had leaks. Also SARS came from a Chinese lab. It’s not crazy to think that they might be related.

Also China is being extremely tight lipped about it. They claim it came from snakes and there’s limited human to human contact. That’s absolutely bullshit.

They don’t want to admit that they fucked up and admit they had a leak at a CDC style level-4 facility

Whatever floats your boat.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:It’s really not that crazy

Whatever floats your boat.

Dude China refused to share important information back in 2003 during SARS. It’s really not out of the realm of possibility that the CPC doesn’t want to admit that it fucked up

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:It’s really not that crazy

Whatever floats your boat.

“ Kanatjan Alibekov, former director of one of the Soviet germ-warfare programs, said that China suffered a serious accident at one of its biological weapons plants in the late 1980s. Alibekov asserted that Soviet reconnaissance satellites identified a biological weapons laboratory and plant near a site for testing nuclear warheads. The Soviets suspected that two separate epidemics of hemorrhagic fever that swept the region in the late 1980s were caused by an accident in a lab where Chinese scientists were weaponizing viral diseases.“ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_a ... al_weapons

So while we do not know it is the case it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

It could also be an accident due to non weapons based viral research.
A non military related, purely medical disease research facility could have an accident.

Again it could be completely natural as well, but human error is not outside the realm of possibility.

Thermodolia wrote:

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Whatever floats your boat.

Dude China refused to share important information back in 2003 during SARS. It’s really not out of the realm of possibility that the CPC doesn’t want to admit that it fucked up

Everyone knows that the CCP fucked up, not through bioweapons testing leading to a virus outbreak, but through simple public health failure. The CCP can not admit that China did anything wrong - including selling contaminated food in markets. Hence, their default answer is censorship.

Vivolkha wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Dude China refused to share important information back in 2003 during SARS. It’s really not out of the realm of possibility that the CPC doesn’t want to admit that it fucked up

Everyone knows that the CCP fucked up, not through bioweapons testing leading to a virus outbreak, but through simple public health failure. The CCP can not admit that China did anything wrong - including selling contaminated food in markets. Hence, their default answer is censorship.

Im not saying that it was a bio weapon lab but a highly possible civilian program that had an accident. They definitely did something wrong as they are blocking everything from people posting about hospitals to people literally falling over in the streets

Thermodolia wrote:

Vivolkha wrote:Everyone knows that the CCP fucked up, not through bioweapons testing leading to a virus outbreak, but through simple public health failure. The CCP can not admit that China did anything wrong - including selling contaminated food in markets. Hence, their default answer is censorship.

Im not saying that it was a bio weapon lab but a highly possible civilian program that had an accident. They definitely did something wrong as they are blocking everything from people posting about hospitals to people literally falling over in the streets

I mean, it could be as simple as: they've known about it for a lot longer then they claim, and didn't act.

I'm not totally discounting the virology lab angle, but it's not like they need the additional excuse to be embarrassed by their poor response.

Dogmeat wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Im not saying that it was a bio weapon lab but a highly possible civilian program that had an accident. They definitely did something wrong as they are blocking everything from people posting about hospitals to people literally falling over in the streets

I mean, it could be as simple as: they've known about it for a lot longer then they claim, and didn't act.

I'm not totally discounting the virology lab angle, but it's not like they need the additional excuse to be embarrassed by their poor response.

True. They could have known about it for months and just didn’t care

Thermodolia wrote:

Dogmeat wrote:I mean, it could be as simple as: they've known about it for a lot longer then they claim, and didn't act.

I'm not totally discounting the virology lab angle, but it's not like they need the additional excuse to be embarrassed by their poor response.

True. They could have known about it for months and just didn’t care

I'm starting to suspect that has to be the case anyway.

The rapidly ballooning number of cases makes it seem like this thing has just an absurd rate of spread, which is fueling panic. But it's more likely that the CCP is just lying about the number of earlier cases, because this has been going on for a while, and admitting that would embarrass them.

Totally Not OEP wrote:Health experts issued an ominous warning about a coronavirus pandemic 3 months ago. Their simulation showed it could kill 65 million people.

And how many of those simulated deaths were from poor countries who cant afford proper treatment rather than rich countries that could?

Totally Not OEP wrote:Health experts issued an ominous warning about a coronavirus pandemic 3 months ago. Their simulation showed it could kill 65 million people.

Are these the same simulations that said Ebola would spread and kill millions a few years ago?

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Totally Not OEP wrote:Health experts issued an ominous warning about a coronavirus pandemic 3 months ago. Their simulation showed it could kill 65 million people.

Are these the same simulations that said Ebola would spread and kill millions a few years ago?

Except the nations that had Ebola wherent tight lipped about the virus.

It’s highly likely that this thing has been around for a few months. Just hand waving it away isn’t a bright idea

Dogmeat wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:True. They could have known about it for months and just didn’t care

I'm starting to suspect that has to be the case anyway.

The rapidly ballooning number of cases makes it seem like this thing has just an absurd rate of spread, which is fueling panic. But it's more likely that the CCP is just lying about the number of earlier cases, because this has been going on for a while, and admitting that would embarrass them.

That is the problem that is fueling much of the fear. We have no idea how bad this is, where it came from, and what risk is involved.
The CCP chronically and pathologically lies, and absolutely nothing they say can be trusted to be true.

Let's not forget China does not have the best medical technology, or resources which could have effected just how spread this thing got in China.

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:

Totally Not OEP wrote:Health experts issued an ominous warning about a coronavirus pandemic 3 months ago. Their simulation showed it could kill 65 million people.

Are these the same simulations that said Ebola would spread and kill millions a few years ago?

Big difference herein is that Ebola is way too deadly to form a viable pandemic; it kills too fast.

Totally Not OEP wrote:

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Are these the same simulations that said Ebola would spread and kill millions a few years ago?

Big difference herein is that Ebola is way too deadly to form a viable pandemic; it kills too fast.

Wasn't the black death also very deadly?

Catburg wrote:

Lord Dominator wrote:Reputable citations please, tto back up this absurd idea you seems to have of the CCP killing their own citizens.

WTF is a “CCP citizen”? China is not really a republic and there aren’t any citizens.

Citizenship has nothing to do with being a republic.

Satuga wrote:

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Big difference herein is that Ebola is way too deadly to form a viable pandemic; it kills too fast.

Wasn't the black death also very deadly?

Black Death spread via fleas (on the rats on the boats), which bit people but did not die themselves.

Totally Not OEP wrote:

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:Are these the same simulations that said Ebola would spread and kill millions a few years ago?

Big difference herein is that Ebola is way too deadly to form a viable pandemic; it kills too fast.

Sure, but it is what it is, a simulation. They account for worst case scenarios, best case scenarios, and all the space in between, but it's often the former. Secondly, Coronavirus covers a broad spectrum of viruses under the same name. You have some that'll give you a nasty cough for a week and others that'll turn your respiratory system into silly putty.

Seeing as this particular coronavirus is still less fatal than SARS and seems to really hit those 75+ with the diagnosis of death, I don't imagine this will snowball into a "brutal pandemic."

If I'm wrong, well, chances are I'll be dead so meh.

Dogmeat wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:True. They could have known about it for months and just didn’t care

I'm starting to suspect that has to be the case anyway.

The rapidly ballooning number of cases makes it seem like this thing has just an absurd rate of spread, which is fueling panic. But it's more likely that the CCP is just lying about the number of earlier cases, because this has been going on for a while, and admitting that would embarrass them.

I mean, it is speculated to have an R0 of up to 2.5, nearly doubling that of Influenza in 2009 and similar to the Spanish Flu in 1918, therefore its rate of spread isn't anything to be shocked about. Worried, yes, surprised, no. The fact is that many of these are most likely the virus leaving incubation, as opposed to new cases, as the disease most likely has an incubation period of 2 weeks, which could end up creating "new" cases even after the isolation of people with vaguely-related symptoms.

Thermodolia wrote:

Dogmeat wrote:I mean, it could be as simple as: they've known about it for a lot longer then they claim, and didn't act.

I'm not totally discounting the virology lab angle, but it's not like they need the additional excuse to be embarrassed by their poor response.

True. They could have known about it for months and just didn’t care

That seems to be the case. Reports out of Wuhan from residents have been scary to say the least, it's certainly worse than they're letting on, but not apocalyptic like some might think.

Major-Tom wrote:

Totally Not OEP wrote:
Big difference herein is that Ebola is way too deadly to form a viable pandemic; it kills too fast.

Sure, but it is what it is, a simulation. They account for worst case scenarios, best case scenarios, and all the space in between, but it's often the former. Secondly, Coronavirus covers a broad spectrum of viruses under the same name. You have some that'll give you a nasty cough for a week and others that'll turn your respiratory system into silly putty.

Seeing as this particular coronavirus is still less fatal than SARS and seems to really hit those 75+ with the diagnosis of death, I don't imagine this will snowball into a "brutal pandemic."

If I'm wrong, well, chances are I'll be dead so meh.

Well it could turn into a pandemic but one that relatively healthy people won’t die from. Basically healthy people could be unwitting carriers of the virus that won’t really affect them but could harm the elderly, young, and Immunocompromised