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Right Wing Discussion Thread XIX

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Would you support a Chinese-Style lockdown in your country to contain the Coronavirus?

Yes
157
48%
No
125
38%
Unsure
46
14%
 
Total votes : 328

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North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:28 am

Novus America wrote:
North German Realm wrote:Hm. The only way I can think this could happen where things wouldn't go too off-the-charts is if Prussia fulfilled its promises and convinced Austria not to join a third partitioning (IRL, the Prussian king did the virtual opposite and convinced Austria to join the partitioning). Also, the likelihood of a Polish state existing in the 19th century would be higher if Prussia had argued in favor of its own partition (rather than let Russia have it in exchange for Rhenish territories) which... honestly, it's not likely.

That said, an independent Poland -regardless of its size- would actively change the 19th century. I'm not sure if it'd be for the better, but I can know it wouldn't be a great and/or a regional power regardless. Russia had cemented its position as the regional Great Power about 50 years before even the first partition.


Sure it was not likely given the Russians and Germans were greedy backstabbing bastards but maybe if Austria and Germany had tried to protect and save at least the core of it rather than Germany being obsessed with destroying it (despite it being a faithful ally in the past).

Had they demanded it be preserved Russia probably would have been contented with what it got in the First Partition.

Ironically it appears the Partitions killed the German, Austria Hungarian and Russian Empires in the end.

I mean, it's impossible for Germany to ever return the territory taken in the First Partition (which is most of West Prussia) willingly. They'd sooner spend four years behind trenches. Similarly for 75% of the territory taken in the Second Partition (Danzig in particular. Greater Poland was not quite that useful). It took the most humiliating defeat Prussia as a sovereign state had ever suffered for someone to take it from them. The Third partition of Poland in particular was the greatest mistake anyone in the 18th century Prussia ever made: It opened the way for Russia to have access to Europe. Prussia and Austria (Which was generally reluctant in its participation) should have attacked Russia when the latter invaded Poland in 1795, but given all three were more worried about France than they were about each other, it wouldn't be likely for this to happen. The most likely scenario would be the restoration of Poland in a border roughly close to holding Greater Poland, Lithuania, and possibly some of Courland to be restored to form a barrier between Russia and Europe during the Congress of Vienna.
Last edited by North German Realm on Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

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Goldstandardstan
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Jan 26, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Goldstandardstan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:50 am

Novus America wrote:Since everyone like alternative history here, what if Poland has not been partitioned nearly as harshly, the Third partition never happened and the First and Second much less severe?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partitions_of_Poland

The Commonwealth would have reformed and likely become a successful major power again.
There might not have been a Communist Russian Revolution.. Tensions between Russia and Germany much reduced.

It is possible the Bonaparte dynasty would still rule France. Amongst other possibilities.

Hard to guess. So much other factors might have popped up that our predictions could be very wrong.

Guess pirogi would've been a more popular dish lol
Last edited by Goldstandardstan on Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Male, 23, Yuropean, Powerlifter AKA powerfatty.
PRO: Gold standard, libertarianism, private schooling, private property, legalization of all drugs, government out of marriage, equality to the law
AGAINST: Socialism and Communism, Fascism, (positive) discrimination laws

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Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6001
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Joohan » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:15 am

What yall think of ted Kaczynski?

I just read his manifesto, and I was surprised at how far ahead of his own time he was. For something written over 30 years ago, one would hardly have been remiss to think it were written today.

I especially found interesting his equation of technological development limiting human freedom. Not gonna lie, that really started pricking at some anprin instincts I didnt know I had.

A wonderful read overall, from a... damaged genius.
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:22 am

North German Realm wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Sure it was not likely given the Russians and Germans were greedy backstabbing bastards but maybe if Austria and Germany had tried to protect and save at least the core of it rather than Germany being obsessed with destroying it (despite it being a faithful ally in the past).

Had they demanded it be preserved Russia probably would have been contented with what it got in the First Partition.

Ironically it appears the Partitions killed the German, Austria Hungarian and Russian Empires in the end.

I mean, it's impossible for Germany to ever return the territory taken in the First Partition (which is most of West Prussia) willingly. They'd sooner spend four years behind trenches. Similarly for 75% of the territory taken in the Second Partition (Danzig in particular. Greater Poland was not quite that useful). It took the most humiliating defeat Prussia as a sovereign state had ever suffered for someone to take it from them. The Third partition of Poland in particular was the greatest mistake anyone in the 18th century Prussia ever made: It opened the way for Russia to have access to Europe. Prussia and Austria (Which was generally reluctant in its participation) should have attacked Russia when the latter invaded Poland in 1795, but given all three were more worried about France than they were about each other, it wouldn't be likely for this to happen. The most likely scenario would be the restoration of Poland in a border roughly close to holding Greater Poland, Lithuania, and possibly some of Courland to be restored to form a barrier between Russia and Europe during the Congress of Vienna.


I agree, but if Prussia and Russia had only taken what they din in the first it would have left Poland mostly intact.

Like you said even it was really the third that was the biggest issue.

Maybe had the others pushed it, it could have been partially restored (although it would be smaller than it was before the first) at Vienna too.

But of course it was not, dooming the Empires that did it.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Senkaku
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25685
Founded: Sep 01, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Senkaku » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:00 am

Joohan wrote:What yall think of ted Kaczynski?

I just read his manifesto, and I was surprised at how far ahead of his own time he was. For something written over 30 years ago, one would hardly have been remiss to think it were written today.

I especially found interesting his equation of technological development limiting human freedom. Not gonna lie, that really started pricking at some anprin instincts I didnt know I had.

A wonderful read overall, from a... damaged genius.

me talking to ted in the control room of a new modular thorium reactor ten years from now

anyways just bc he made like two semi-good points abt climate change or whatever doesn't mean we need to rehabilitate a murderous terrorist anprim, kinda tired of it being fashionable for ~intellectuals~ to sing his praises (also you're so late to this train lol)
Last edited by Senkaku on Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
agreed honey. send bees

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Jolthig
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16317
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:52 pm

Poland always seems to be a place where everyone loves invading them.
Devoted Ahmadi Muslim • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • Discord ID: Jolthig#9602
Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Novus America
Post Czar
 
Posts: 38385
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Novus America » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:00 pm

Jolthig wrote:Poland always seems to be a place where everyone loves invading them.


It does, but the invasion always seems to do the invader far more harm than good.
Of the five empires who did since the 1700s, none survived. And died in part because they invaded it.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Jolthig
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16317
Founded: Aug 31, 2010
Democratic Socialists

Postby Jolthig » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:13 pm

Novus America wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Poland always seems to be a place where everyone loves invading them.


It does, but the invasion always seems to do the invader far more harm than good.
Of the five empires who did since the 1700s, none survived. And died in part because they invaded it.

Austria especially. Their ethnically diverse landscape led to their eventual downfall. They hardly had the same values among one another.
Devoted Ahmadi Muslim • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan • Discord ID: Jolthig#9602
Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Fahran
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19426
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:37 pm

United Muscovite Nations wrote:SHALOM, GOYS AND GOYLS

Hebrews and Shebrews.
"Then it was as if all the beauty of Ardha, devastating in its color and form and movement, recalled to him, more and more, the First Music, though reflected dimly. Thus Alnair wept bitterly, lamenting the notes which had begun to fade from his memory. He, who had composed the world's first poem upon spying a gazelle and who had played the world's first song upon encountering a dove perched upon a moringa, in beauty, now found only suffering and longing. Such it must be for all among the djinn, souls of flame and ash slowly dwindling to cinders in the elder days of the world."

- Song of the Fallen Star

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Fahran
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19426
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:39 pm

Jolthig wrote:Poland always seems to be a place where everyone loves invading them.

I miss Poland being a regional power.
"Then it was as if all the beauty of Ardha, devastating in its color and form and movement, recalled to him, more and more, the First Music, though reflected dimly. Thus Alnair wept bitterly, lamenting the notes which had begun to fade from his memory. He, who had composed the world's first poem upon spying a gazelle and who had played the world's first song upon encountering a dove perched upon a moringa, in beauty, now found only suffering and longing. Such it must be for all among the djinn, souls of flame and ash slowly dwindling to cinders in the elder days of the world."

- Song of the Fallen Star

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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60409
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:00 pm

Joohan wrote:What yall think of ted Kaczynski?

I just read his manifesto, and I was surprised at how far ahead of his own time he was. For something written over 30 years ago, one would hardly have been remiss to think it were written today.

I especially found interesting his equation of technological development limiting human freedom. Not gonna lie, that really started pricking at some anprin instincts I didnt know I had.

A wonderful read overall, from a... damaged genius.

A horrible, terrible man who used his intellect to destroy people.
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faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Duvniask
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6336
Founded: Aug 30, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:09 pm

Jolthig wrote:Poland always seems to be a place where everyone loves invading them.

Because it has some pretty bad geography when it comes to securing a spot among competing nations.
One of these days, I'm going to burst a blood vessel in my brain.

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North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:27 pm

Duvniask wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Poland always seems to be a place where everyone loves invading them.

Because it has some pretty bad geography when it comes to securing a spot among competing nations.

Honestly a great deal of Poland's problems comes from the fact it starts shit that it can't finish without outside help. I don't mean "declare war on half of the world" (Hello Germany), but stuff that tends to get entire civilizations mad at you. Countries forget slights quickly. People remember them but rarely act on them. Civilizations never forget grudges. Well, that and Russia having an attitude of "any land that borders us is rightfully ours and we should only take it"; Brandenburg having a history of "if I invade them first, they won't be able to invade me later", and Austria being... Austria.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

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The Liberated Territories
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11858
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Liberated Territories » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:43 pm

We need to bring back the Commonwealth.

I said the real Commonwealth.

Perfection.
"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
—Robert Heinlein

a libertarian, which means i want poor babies to die or smth

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Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5531
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:34 pm

Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

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Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1856
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:37 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokutairon_and_Pure_Socialism

Opinions?

Why is he cross-eyed

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Diopolis
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Posts: 17601
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:38 pm

Divorce should be unattainable without a criminal conviction beforehand.
Texas nationalist, 3rd positionist, radical social conservative, post-liberal.

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Hanafuridake
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5531
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Hanafuridake » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:38 pm

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokutairon_and_Pure_Socialism

Opinions?

Why is he cross-eyed


He had a childhood eye injury and would take cocaine throughout his life to deal with the pain.
Nation name in proper language: 花降岳|पुष्पद्वीप
Theravada Buddhist
李贽 wrote:There is nothing difficult about becoming a sage, and nothing false about transcending the world of appearances.
Suriyanakhon's alt, finally found my old account's password

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Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1856
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:41 pm

Hanafuridake wrote:He had a childhood eye injury and would take cocaine throughout his life to deal with the pain.

Ouch. As for the ideology, looks like boring esoteric intellectualism.

That's a pass from me.

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:57 pm

Fahran wrote:
United Muscovite Nations wrote:SHALOM, GOYS AND GOYLS

Hebrews and Shebrews.

Why do I have the sudden urge to defend Greatest Ally?
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:51 pm

I'm reading through the Old Testament for a class, which is the first time for me, at least thoroughly.

It's interesting how many references there are to Mesopotamian geography in Genesis. Maybe there's something historical to Abraham's origins.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:53 pm

Salus Maior wrote:I'm reading through the Old Testament for a class, which is the first time for me, at least thoroughly.

It's interesting how many references there are to Mesopotamian geography in Genesis. Maybe there's something historical to Abraham's origins.

I had never considered otherwise. Abraham is where I draw the line between biblical legend and history.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Ecofascists
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jan 27, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Ecofascists » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:56 pm

Joohan wrote:What yall think of ted Kaczynski?

I just read his manifesto, and I was surprised at how far ahead of his own time he was. For something written over 30 years ago, one would hardly have been remiss to think it were written today.

I especially found interesting his equation of technological development limiting human freedom. Not gonna lie, that really started pricking at some anprin instincts I didnt know I had.

A wonderful read overall, from a... damaged genius.


I was suprised how ahead of his time Julius Evola was

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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53342
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:57 pm

Ecofascists wrote:
Joohan wrote:What yall think of ted Kaczynski?

I just read his manifesto, and I was surprised at how far ahead of his own time he was. For something written over 30 years ago, one would hardly have been remiss to think it were written today.

I especially found interesting his equation of technological development limiting human freedom. Not gonna lie, that really started pricking at some anprin instincts I didnt know I had.

A wonderful read overall, from a... damaged genius.


I was suprised how ahead of his time Julius Evola was


Literally the cringiest person of the 20th century lol
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

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Salus Maior
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27813
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Salus Maior » Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:57 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:I'm reading through the Old Testament for a class, which is the first time for me, at least thoroughly.

It's interesting how many references there are to Mesopotamian geography in Genesis. Maybe there's something historical to Abraham's origins.

I had never considered otherwise. Abraham is where I draw the line between biblical legend and history.


Well, I'm personally pretty cautious when assigning history to Genesis stories, I do believe Abraham was a real figure however.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic, Distributist, Disillusioned Millennial.

"In any case we clearly see....That some opportune remedy must be found quickly for the misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class...it has come to pass that working men have been surrendered, isolated and helpless, to the hardheartedness of employers and the greed of unchecked competition." -Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum

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