Right Wing Discussion Thread XIX

[Novus America]

Because your belief is that the success of a people can be measured by how many monuments they built. Real life is not a game of Civilization where you earn points for building 'wonders' that go towards a golden age.


Drake circumnavigated the globe sixty years after the Spanish. Elizabeth's religious policy was a complete disaster.


The middle class was not in charge.


Amritsar made departure from India certain. India should have become a dominion after the First World War.


Marriages aren't affairs. And intermarriage should have continued.

Don't cut a post into tiny little sections, you're not a fucking sushi chef.

Learn to write in paragraphs like a civilised person or don't bother at all.

I actually am inclined to agree. Not only does it cause the slices to multiply like kittens into a Gish Gallop text wall, it focuses on single sentences out of context, not the overall point.

[Salus Maior]

That'll depend on the ideology.

My view is that the Monarch holds the highest political authority, and thus holds responsibility over the wellbeing of the nation and acts to serve them to the best of their ability. All other parts of the government are just delegated powers in order to assist the Monarch in this aim. The person's obligation is to reciprocate the Monarch's service with loyalty, and to serve the nation in their own ability.

So just a little short of the Autocracy in "Orthodoxy, Autocracy, and Nationality," if I'm getting this right?

That’s one way of interpreting it. But this covers constitutional monarchy as well.

In theory, the entire UK government is an extension and delegation of royal power. That is why it is called ‘Her Majesty’s Government’.

[Nakena]

That'll depend on the ideology.

My view is that the Monarch holds the highest political authority, and thus holds responsibility over the wellbeing of the nation and acts to serve them to the best of their ability. All other parts of the government are just delegated powers in order to assist the Monarch in this aim. The person's obligation is to reciprocate the Monarch's service with loyalty, and to serve the nation in their own ability.

So just a little short of the Autocracy in "Orthodoxy, Autocracy, and Nationality," if I'm getting this right?

I think he isn't supportive of russian autocracy.

Also the late Austrian-Hungarian Empire was surprisingly tolerant and neat. It got and gets a lot of hatred, disdain and ridicule it doesnt really deserves.

[Genivaria]

Read an interesting quote that made me think:
""If Arabs had to choose between two states, secular and religious, they would vote for religious and flee to secular."
-Ali al Warbi

How true is this?

[Mostrov]

Because your belief is that the success of a people can be measured by how many monuments they built. Real life is not a game of Civilization where you earn points for building 'wonders' that go towards a golden age.

Drake circumnavigated the globe sixty years after the Spanish. Elizabeth's religious policy was a complete disaster.

The middle class was not in charge.

Amritsar made departure from India certain. India should have become a dominion after the First World War.

Marriages aren't affairs. And intermarriage should have continued.

Monuments play a part, yes, for the sake that they are one of the most tangible remnants of power. Oxford, Cambridge, the Cathedrals of Europe, Venice, Florence, Pisa were all created by rulers in one way or another to impress their power upon the people and their historical legacy. But monuments are really a shorthand for a certain vitality, that a people have an outlook that contains a confidence (perhaps new-found or reignited) in their action: a sloughing off of stagnation or an end to internal conflict.

Elizabeth entered into the popular imagination as Good Queen Bess, the Virgin Queen etc., her legacy is quite secure, no matter your judgement on the matter. As an aside, Drake was the first person to complete a circumnavigation and survive.

The ICS was a middle-class institution, the military may not have been but they had little influence upon the laws and day to day running of the imperial apparatus. Indians to this day contain resentment for events that occurred in the 18th century, I doubt a massacre really changed much given the Indian National Congress had already passed motions for self-rule, perhaps it cemented opposition against the British and made leaving a certainty, but the creation of the world's largest volunteer army was on the understanding of the Indian people that they would be granted independence for their service. There is no reason to think India would have remained a dominion when it was largely the same set of people who governed the country after independence.

[Mostrov]

From quite another angle, philosophy made its contribution to the subject; the Stoic insistence on equality and brotherhood sank into men’s souls, and inspired visions of something better than the existing order. Some took refuge from civilisation in drawing fancy pictures of virtuous barbarians living according to Nature, prototypes of Tacitus’ Germania; and Utopias began to appear. Plato and Aristotle had indeed drawn Ideal States, but not states of much use to working men; and the first Utopia, Zeno’s, was too splendid and too remote for human nature to grasp. But Euhemerus (c. 300) and lambulus (third century) created true modern Utopias, located on islands in the Indian Ocean; and in lambulus’ great Sun-state Stoic Communism appears full-grown. The people were equal in all respects, even in wisdom; they lived in social bodies or ‘systems’ in which all worked equally and equally shared the produce; they escaped ‘slavery to the means of production’ because the island fortunately bore crops, partly by itself, all the year round; each in turn filled every duty from servant to governor, the governor of each system behig the oldest member, who had to die at a certain age (a provision taken from a tradition at Ceos); there was thus no place for wealth, ambition, or learning, the foes of equality, or for class war, because there were no classes; above all things the people prized Homonoia and were united in concord and love. What lambulus and his fellows really aimed at was the abolition of that class war whose horrors many Greeks had seen; and indeed, even while revolutionary philosophers and conservative governments were alike honouring Concord, some practical devotees of that goddess were always ready to massacre their feUows in her name.

From Hellenistic Civilization pp. 104-5 by W.W. Tarn

[Albennia]

Because your belief is that the success of a people can be measured by how many monuments they built. Real life is not a game of Civilization where you earn points for building 'wonders' that go towards a golden age.

Drake circumnavigated the globe sixty years after the Spanish. Elizabeth's religious policy was a complete disaster.

The middle class was not in charge.

Amritsar made departure from India certain. India should have become a dominion after the First World War.

Marriages aren't affairs. And intermarriage should have continued.

Monuments play a part, yes, for the sake that they are one of the most tangible remnants of power. Oxford, Cambridge, the Cathedrals of Europe, Venice, Florence, Pisa were all created by rulers in one way or another to impress their power upon the people and their historical legacy. But monuments are really a shorthand for a certain vitality, that a people have an outlook that contains a confidence (perhaps new-found or reignited) in their action: a sloughing off of stagnation or an end to internal conflict.

Elizabeth entered into the popular imagination as Good Queen Bess, the Virgin Queen etc., her legacy is quite secure, no matter your judgement on the matter. As an aside, Drake was the first person to complete a circumnavigation and survive.

The ICS was a middle-class institution, the military may not have been but they had little influence upon the laws and day to day running of the imperial apparatus. Indians to this day contain resentment for events that occurred in the 18th century, I doubt a massacre really changed much given the Indian National Congress had already passed motions for self-rule, perhaps it cemented opposition against the British and made leaving a certainty, but the creation of the world's largest volunteer army was on the understanding of the Indian people that they would be granted independence for their service. There is no reason to think India would have remained a dominion when it was largely the same set of people who governed the country after independence.

Oxford and Cambridge founded themselves. Northampton was the only English university founded with any support from our most generous oppressors, but they just as easily shut the place down. The Guelphs of Florence were a populist movement, they were the people themselves. Your choice of Pisa is similarly poor as an unsourced sentence from the former cathedral's Wikipedia article enables me to argue that they were in fact building those cathedrals out of rivalry.

You talk about monuments being the expression of a people, but they are most often no such thing (you just happened to pick some unfortunate examples, with the exception of Venice), they are usually the creations of rulers (as you correctly point out right before) and this has only changed in the past few centuries and even then only in a few places. As for "an end to internal conflict", I'm pretty sure you were using the castles built by the Normans as an example of how great they were.

Elizabeth's legacy is, unfortunately, currently secure, but thanks to Gove this country's children are no longer being constantly told how great the Tudors were year after year after year. So maybe we're getting somewhere on that. A rare positive accomplishment of Conservative government.

The civil service did over time become more middle-class, but being a bureaucrat does not automatically mean that you are in charge. Nearly all of the Governor-Generals were part of the British elite and Britain was run by the elite. Plenty of Indians do resent the British Empire for such events. But so do the Irish, and they were supportive of the monarchy right up until our government did as it always does and fucked things up, so I'm willing to believe massacres can indeed drastically change public opinion. Self-rule and independence did not mean getting rid of the monarchy, and the opinions of those people were both complicated and shaped considerably by history after the First World War.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

Better

[Mostrov]

Yet they weren't built by themselves. All places I mentioned, even Venice, are notable for the architectural patronage conferred upon them, be it from a monarch, archbishop, merchant-prince or the res publica themselves. There is a relationship between the governed and those who govern which is intertwined in the creation of monuments or indeed any public art. It was not the people but a people. For good or ill it is art, be it letters, architecture, sculpture etc. that is what remains of the past, it is the struggle of pulling forth order from chaos, which is the fundamental history of civilization itself. It is the same spirit which animated Hippodamus for that matter. As art can only ever made by and for an idle class, living off those below, it is as much their expression (art must reflect its time and place) as it is their government which is recorded in history. I certainly don't live in the topsy-turvy world of making great things little and little things great.

[LRON]

I'm pretty sure you were using the castles built by the Normans as an example of how great they were.

Well they are certainly quite impressive feats of military engineering and were a good way of establishing political control, cannot really argue against that. You will have to go to Sicily and southern Italy however to see the height of what I would consider Norman architecture in general. If you ever get a chance chap, you should take a tour of those sites in Sicily and the Mezzogiorno!

[Auze]

Isn't it kind of weird that the mods show more tolerance for sexual predators (Eternal Lotharia, Zeonic States, 1000 Cats, and Cameroi)

Wait, what did Eternal Lotharia do?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Isn't it kind of weird that the mods show more tolerance for sexual predators (Eternal Lotharia, Zeonic States, 1000 Cats, and Cameroi)

Wait, what did Eternal Lotharia do?

Admitted on an RMB that he had sex with (read: raped) his 8 year old cousin (who I'm pretty sure he later stated was mentally handicapped) when he was 12.

[Salus Maior]

Wait, what did Eternal Lotharia do?

Admitted on an RMB that he had sex with (read: raped) his 8 year old cousin (who I'm pretty sure he later stated was mentally handicapped) when he was 12.

You know, I'm one of those people that really focuses on their own failings and faults. I'd say generally I'm not the best human being in the world.

But upon reading this I think I'm worrying a bit too much. I don't know how anyone could live with themselves having done that.

[LRON]

Isn't it kind of weird that the mods show more tolerance for sexual predators (Eternal Lotharia, Zeonic States, 1000 Cats, and Cameroi) than they do honest posters. Like maybe they should give Benuty a pass on some heated comments, like how they let Deian Salazar stay on the site for four years after admitting to molesting his cousin.

I am sorry, but has Jimmy Savile returned from the grave and masqueraded as a moderator of this place? Has anyone been unduly punished for calling out this sort of thing? How the bloody hell has this been allowed to happen?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Admitted on an RMB that he had sex with (read: raped) his 8 year old cousin (who I'm pretty sure he later stated was mentally handicapped) when he was 12.

You know, I'm one of those people that really focuses on their own failings and faults. I'd say generally I'm not the best human being in the world.

But upon reading this I think I'm worrying a bit too much. I don't know how anyone could live with themselves having done that.

You absolutely are worrying too much. There's certainly a great deal of things we don't agree on but you've always come across as a pretty good person.

[Salus Maior]

Isn't it kind of weird that the mods show more tolerance for sexual predators (Eternal Lotharia, Zeonic States, 1000 Cats, and Cameroi) than they do honest posters. Like maybe they should give Benuty a pass on some heated comments, like how they let Deian Salazar stay on the site for four years after admitting to molesting his cousin.

I am sorry, but has Jimmy Savile returned from the grave and masqueraded as a moderator of this place? Has anyone been unduly punished for calling out this sort of thing? How the bloody hell has this been allowed to happen?

That's been an ongoing controversy on this site.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Wait, what did Eternal Lotharia do?

Admitted on an RMB that he had sex with (read: raped) his 8 year old cousin (who I'm pretty sure he later stated was mentally handicapped) when he was 12.

Wow, I didn't know the cousin was mentally handicapped. That makes it so much worse.

[LRON]

I am sorry, but has Jimmy Savile returned from the grave and masqueraded as a moderator of this place? Has anyone been unduly punished for calling out this sort of thing? How the bloody hell has this been allowed to happen?

That's been an ongoing controversy on this site.

Ongoing?!

[Salus Maior]

So just a little short of the Autocracy in "Orthodoxy, Autocracy, and Nationality," if I'm getting this right?

I think he isn't supportive of russian autocracy.

Also the late Austrian-Hungarian Empire was surprisingly tolerant and neat. It got and gets a lot of hatred, disdain and ridicule it doesnt really deserves.

I don't mind the idea of Tsarist autocracy, I just don't think it's all that practical.

And word. Although the Austro-Hungarian Empire did certainly have a huge share of problems.

[Salus Maior]

That's been an ongoing controversy on this site.

Ongoing?!

For like years.

[North German Realm]

So just a little short of the Autocracy in "Orthodoxy, Autocracy, and Nationality," if I'm getting this right?

I think he isn't supportive of russian autocracy.

Also the late Austrian-Hungarian Empire was surprisingly tolerant and neat. It got and gets a lot of hatred, disdain and ridicule it doesnt really deserves.

I maintain a level of dislike for Austria for various reasons, but one must remember that the Habsburgs pretty much did what they were supposed to; Kept the Muslims out of Europe and the Balkans semi-stable and Central Europe safe, and even as late as 1917, they still were doing that -all the while participating in a war they were the primary victim of. United States of Greater Austria (or whatever name it would take) was a good idea imo, and one that should have been implemented instead of the mess that we got.

[Salus Maior]

I think he isn't supportive of russian autocracy.

Also the late Austrian-Hungarian Empire was surprisingly tolerant and neat. It got and gets a lot of hatred, disdain and ridicule it doesnt really deserves.

I maintain a level of dislike for Austria for various reasons, but one must remember that the Habsburgs pretty much did what they were supposed to; Kept the Muslims out of Europe and the Balkans semi-stable and Central Europe safe, and even as late as 1917, they still were doing that -all the while participating in a war they were the primary victim of. United States of Greater Austria (or whatever name it would take) was a good idea imo, and one that should have been implemented instead of the mess that we got.

They never got a chance to.

[Bear Stearns]

What are Stacy Abrams' qualifications to be vice president?

[Bienenhalde]

What are Stacy Abrams' qualifications to be vice president?

Well, serving ten years in a state legislature and losing a close gubernatorial election are nothing to sneeze at, per se, I am not sure that is enough to qualify someone to be a vice presidential candidate. There are plenty of women who are much better qualified, like Nikki Haley or Susanna Martinez.

[Salus Maior]

What are Stacy Abrams' qualifications to be vice president?

You need qualifications to be vice president?