Virginia declares emergency Militias threaten to seize Gov.

[Telconi]

"Neo-nazis" lmao

imagine being so brainwashed that you think a 30K+ people owning guns and being peaceful and asking for freedom of speech and firearms to be "neo-nazis"

I will say this, if the democrats win, we DESERVE whatever tyranny comes.

Implying it's possible to inflict tyranny upon Democrats.

[Nazeroth]

imagine being so brainwashed that you think a 30K+ people owning guns and being peaceful and asking for freedom of speech and firearms to be "neo-nazis"

I will say this, if the democrats win, we DESERVE whatever tyranny comes.

Implying it's possible to inflict tyranny upon Democrats.

self-imposed tyranny

"STOP hate speech!"

"white people are nazis!", gets arrested " Wait..wait..what????"

[Dome Artan]

How is threatening a democratically elected legislature by marching around with heavy weaponry not terrorism?

"democratically elected"

let me educate you on something: When your the governor of a province/state in a nation and then you completley go against your entire state/province just because a single city voted you in, your probably not doing your job well, not to mention.

When a party wins control of house, senate and governorship and then enacts what they campaigned on it sure seems like they're following the will of the voting populace.

yeah, and they couldn't get away with attacking people this time either, a bit hard to show up to a 30K strong armed rally and attack conservatives.

2. Yeah, they were there in small amounts and only because they want weapons to overthrow capitalists.

Actually... despite initial reports, this may not actually be true.

Yeah most post event reporting has antifa not in attendance, mostly because the local groups didn't feel the event was remotely fascist.

[Nazeroth]

"democratically elected"

let me educate you on something: When your the governor of a province/state in a nation and then you completley go against your entire state/province just because a single city voted you in, your probably not doing your job well, not to mention.

When a party wins control of house, senate and governorship and then enacts what they campaigned on it sure seems like they're following the will of the voting populace.

Actually... despite initial reports, this may not actually be true.

Yeah most post event reporting has antifa not in attendance, mostly because the local groups didn't feel the event was remotely fascist.

well, when all your sherrifs are in open rebellion, maybe you had less support than you thought.

which then makes me question the legitamency of the election.

[Dome Artan]

When a party wins control of house, senate and governorship and then enacts what they campaigned on it sure seems like they're following the will of the voting populace.

Yeah most post event reporting has antifa not in attendance, mostly because the local groups didn't feel the event was remotely fascist.

well, when all your sherrifs are in open rebellion, maybe you had less support than you thought.

which then makes me question the legitamency of the election.

Well after all it was a very tight majority that Democrats received, especially in the Senate, but just because there's a narrow margin of support that doesn't make the election undemocratic which is the point I was trying to make. If people begin to take issue consistently with unfavourable election results than the fabric of a democratic nation will be eroded.

Besides, if the election actually was illegitimate I'm sure the Republican Party would be all over that.

[The Emerald Legion]

well, when all your sherrifs are in open rebellion, maybe you had less support than you thought.

which then makes me question the legitamency of the election.

Well after all it was a very tight majority that Democrats received, especially in the Senate, but just because there's a narrow margin of support that doesn't make the election undemocratic which is the point I was trying to make. If people begin to take issue consistently with unfavourable election results than the fabric of a democratic nation will be eroded.

Besides, if the election actually was illegitimate I'm sure the Republican Party would be all over that.

You act like there hasn't been moves to recall Northam for a fortnight.

[Nazeroth]

well, when all your sherrifs are in open rebellion, maybe you had less support than you thought.

which then makes me question the legitamency of the election.

Well after all it was a very tight majority that Democrats received, especially in the Senate, but just because there's a narrow margin of support that doesn't make the election undemocratic which is the point I was trying to make. If people begin to take issue consistently with unfavourable election results than the fabric of a democratic nation will be eroded.

Besides, if the election actually was illegitimate I'm sure the Republican Party would be all over that.

If i pour shit tons of money into an election and win is that the "will of the people"? as long as it's done legally?

[Telconi]

well, when all your sherrifs are in open rebellion, maybe you had less support than you thought.

which then makes me question the legitamency of the election.

Well after all it was a very tight majority that Democrats received, especially in the Senate, but just because there's a narrow margin of support that doesn't make the election undemocratic which is the point I was trying to make. If people begin to take issue consistently with unfavourable election results than the fabric of a democratic nation will be eroded.

Besides, if the election actually was illegitimate I'm sure the Republican Party would be all over that.

That's what's happening.

[Dome Artan]

If i pour shit tons of money into an election and win is that the "will of the people"? as long as it's done legally?

Both sides pour money into elections unfortunately theres no way around it. Does more money mean more votes? Yeah most of the time it does, but what choice is there? At the end of the day people have to vote and if one sides voters don't show up in the same numbers simply because of lack of funds then that's on them.

The major problem is not overspending by parties but a lack of participation in the democratic process, which people have taken for granted for decades.

You act like there hasn't been moves to recall Northam for a fortnight.

What motivation do those supporting Northam have to speak out in the same way that people against him are? The voice of dissent is always louder than that of support. That being said I recognize Governor Northam has been heavy-handed with his response to the protest, and over zealous in his characterization of the bad actors involved. But the protest still was carried out (and carried out admirably as many on this thread have been so rightly proud to mention) and aided the public perception of the gun rights activists involved as many citizens of Richmond said.

[Nazeroth]

If i pour shit tons of money into an election and win is that the "will of the people"? as long as it's done legally?

Both sides pour money into elections unfortunately theres no way around it. Does more money mean more votes? Yeah most of the time it does, but what choice is there? At the end of the day people have to vote and if one sides voters don't show up in the same numbers simply because of lack of funds then that's on them.

The major problem is not overspending by parties but a lack of participation in the democratic process, which people have taken for granted for decades.

You act like there hasn't been moves to recall Northam for a fortnight.

What motivation do those supporting Northam have to speak out in the same way that people against him are? The voice of dissent is always louder than that of support. That being said I recognize Governor Northam has been heavy-handed with his response to the protest, and over zealous in his characterization of the bad actors involved. But the protest still was carried out (and carried out admirably as many on this thread have been so rightly proud to mention) and aided the public perception of the gun rights activists involved as many citizens of Richmond said.

that dosn't change what I said

are they representing the actual "will of the people"?

if they were, why would such a MASSIVE amount of resistance come up?

[Dome Artan]

Both sides pour money into elections unfortunately theres no way around it. Does more money mean more votes? Yeah most of the time it does, but what choice is there? At the end of the day people have to vote and if one sides voters don't show up in the same numbers simply because of lack of funds then that's on them.

The major problem is not overspending by parties but a lack of participation in the democratic process, which people have taken for granted for decades.

that dosn't change what I said

are they representing the actual "will of the people"?

if they were, why would such a MASSIVE amount of resistance come up?

The protest consisted of around 22,000 people according to the New York Times. The population of Virginia is over 8.5 million (5.6 million registered voters https://www.elections.virginia.gov/resu ... tatistics/). So while the protest was very large, I'm not sure if it offers any indication about the will of the people even if we allow that all 22,000 are Virginians (likely not).

As for the election results, its like I said originally. In a democratic country with voting rights pretty much universally extended, an election result should (and I would argue must) be considered the will of the people. And this course of action is included in that, after all the Democrats made it clear this was one of their goals so its not as if people are surprised they are pursuing this.

[Nazeroth]

that dosn't change what I said

are they representing the actual "will of the people"?

if they were, why would such a MASSIVE amount of resistance come up?

The protest consisted of around 22,000 people according to the New York Times. The population of Virginia is over 8.5 million (5.6 million registered voters https://www.elections.virginia.gov/resu ... tatistics/). So while the protest was very large, I'm not sure if it offers any indication about the will of the people even if we allow that all 22,000 are Virginians (likely not).

As for the election results, its like I said originally. In a democratic country with voting rights pretty much universally extended, an election result should (and I would argue must) be considered the will of the people. And this course of action is included in that, after all the Democrats made it clear this was one of their goals so its not as if people are surprised they are pursuing this.

People WERE surprised by this, that's why the protest was so massive, nobody would have thought they would have jumped to such extremes, and then threaten to use the national guard, and then try to change the recall requirement, and then put a bill forward to criminalize protesting VA government.

[Bear Stearns]

Wow guys, I am too late for that totally NAZI and WHITE SUPREMACIST VIOLENT gun rally?

[Dome Artan]

The protest consisted of around 22,000 people according to the New York Times. The population of Virginia is over 8.5 million (5.6 million registered voters https://www.elections.virginia.gov/resu ... tatistics/). So while the protest was very large, I'm not sure if it offers any indication about the will of the people even if we allow that all 22,000 are Virginians (likely not).

As for the election results, its like I said originally. In a democratic country with voting rights pretty much universally extended, an election result should (and I would argue must) be considered the will of the people. And this course of action is included in that, after all the Democrats made it clear this was one of their goals so its not as if people are surprised they are pursuing this.

People WERE surprised by this, that's why the protest was so massive, nobody would have thought they would have jumped to such extremes, and then threaten to use the national guard, and then try to change the recall requirement, and then put a bill forward to criminalize protesting VA government.

The point I've been trying to make is about denying election results. Not everyone is going to be thrilled with election results but calling free and open elections not the will of the people is very concerning to me as it subverts democracy into mob rule (of course there are those that would welcome mob rule but lets leave that for another time and a different thread).

That being said I actually agree with most of what you said, it was too much too quickly as far as gun control goes. However although I'm not entirely clear on what the Democrats promised specifically everyone did know gun control was on the docket. I've commented in a previous response on how poor of a job Northam did handling the situation: state of emergency, white supremacist claims and all so I'm with you on that.

And could I get a source on that last point? I was trying to find an article about a bill criminalizing protest but no such luck, I'm not doubting your veracity I'm just not great at internet navigation.

[Nazeroth]

People WERE surprised by this, that's why the protest was so massive, nobody would have thought they would have jumped to such extremes, and then threaten to use the national guard, and then try to change the recall requirement, and then put a bill forward to criminalize protesting VA government.

The point I've been trying to make is about denying election results. Not everyone is going to be thrilled with election results but calling free and open elections not the will of the people is very concerning to me as it subverts democracy into mob rule (of course there are those that would welcome mob rule but lets leave that for another time and a different thread).

That being said I actually agree with most of what you said, it was too much too quickly as far as gun control goes. However although I'm not entirely clear on what the Democrats promised specifically everyone did know gun control was on the docket. I've commented in a previous response on how poor of a job Northam did handling the situation: state of emergency, white supremacist claims and all so I'm with you on that.

And could I get a source on that last point? I was trying to find an article about a bill criminalizing protest but no such luck, I'm not doubting your veracity I'm just not great at internet navigation.

I forgot the bill number, to be honest and am too tired/lazy to grab it(ill post it later, its on my phone)

the point im trying to make is that "free and fair elections" has been ruined.

if the people fairly and freely decide to throw all black people in jail, is that the right move? legal or not?

[Dome Artan]

The point I've been trying to make is about denying election results. Not everyone is going to be thrilled with election results but calling free and open elections not the will of the people is very concerning to me as it subverts democracy into mob rule (of course there are those that would welcome mob rule but lets leave that for another time and a different thread).

That being said I actually agree with most of what you said, it was too much too quickly as far as gun control goes. However although I'm not entirely clear on what the Democrats promised specifically everyone did know gun control was on the docket. I've commented in a previous response on how poor of a job Northam did handling the situation: state of emergency, white supremacist claims and all so I'm with you on that.

And could I get a source on that last point? I was trying to find an article about a bill criminalizing protest but no such luck, I'm not doubting your veracity I'm just not great at internet navigation.

I forgot the bill number, to be honest and am too tired/lazy to grab it(ill post it later, its on my phone)

the point im trying to make is that "free and fair elections" has been ruined.

if the people fairly and freely decide to throw all black people in jail, is that the right move? legal or not?

No worries, I appreciate it.

And that is an interesting argument and part of the reason I've come around from being much more inclined towards gun control to more in the middle. The potential for illiberal democracy is always present of course but that doesn't change the fact that an election should be considered the will of the people. Even if the people are morally wrong (as in your scenario) an election like the US has still reflects their will. Faith has to be held in the voting population that they will not be so flagrantly wrong in the sense of your example.

[Telconi]

I forgot the bill number, to be honest and am too tired/lazy to grab it(ill post it later, its on my phone)

the point im trying to make is that "free and fair elections" has been ruined.

if the people fairly and freely decide to throw all black people in jail, is that the right move? legal or not?

No worries, I appreciate it.

And that is an interesting argument and part of the reason I've come around from being much more inclined towards gun control to more in the middle. The potential for illiberal democracy is always present of course but that doesn't change the fact that an election should be considered the will of the people. Even if the people are morally wrong (as in your scenario) an election like the US has still reflects their will. Faith has to be held in the voting population that they will not be so flagrantly wrong in the sense of your example.

Faith contrary to fact is foolish.

Also it's worth noting, that especially in climates of strong opposition, elections result in the will of the majority of people. Any attempt to paint it as the will of "the people" as a single entity is inherently foolish. Millions of people didn't want Northam, and when Northam then makes laws specifically targeting the people who opposed him, it gets awfully sketchy.

[Nazeroth]

No worries, I appreciate it.

And that is an interesting argument and part of the reason I've come around from being much more inclined towards gun control to more in the middle. The potential for illiberal democracy is always present of course but that doesn't change the fact that an election should be considered the will of the people. Even if the people are morally wrong (as in your scenario) an election like the US has still reflects their will. Faith has to be held in the voting population that they will not be so flagrantly wrong in the sense of your example.

Faith contrary to fact is foolish.

Also it's worth noting, that especially in climates of strong opposition, elections result in the will of the majority of people. Any attempt to paint it as the will of "the people" as a single entity is inherently foolish. Millions of people didn't want Northam, and when Northam then makes laws specifically targeting the people who opposed him, it gets awfully sketchy.

it turns into the debate of

Listen to the election: That means even evil things are A-OKAY as long as they are "stamped G2G" which would justify every tyrannical government's actions since they were all done "legally"

as far as I'm concerned, due to the tract record of governments and gun control in history, they are the last people i trust.

[Thermodolia]

yeah, and they couldn't get away with attacking people this time either, a bit hard to show up to a 30K strong armed rally and attack conservatives.

2. Yeah, they were there in small amounts and only because they want weapons to overthrow capitalists.

Actually... despite initial reports, this may not actually be true.

Just when you thought they had grown some balls they go and cut em off

[Paddy O Fernature]

Actually... despite initial reports, this may not actually be true.

Just when you thought they had grown some balls they go and cut em off

I'd say that's typical of the type that make up Antifa.

Also, in other news...

Say hello to HB 1627, which is the latest proposal in a long list of obvious targeted tyranny, where if passed will make it a criminal offense to criticize the Virginia Governor or his immediate cronies. It's almost like we predicted this earlier when we mentioned that other rights would be under attack following attacks on the 2a..

It's starting to look like Rally 2.0 is already needed as the thin skinned Gov didn't seem to get the memo that the people will not stand for his bullshit and was indeed hurt by people calling him out on his blackface.

[Grinning Dragon]

Just when you thought they had grown some balls they go and cut em off

I'd say that's typical of the type that make up Antifa.

Also, in other news...

Say hello to HB 1627, which is the latest proposal in a long list of obvious targeted tyranny, where if passed will make it a criminal offense to criticize the Virginia Governor or his immediate cronies. It's almost like we predicted this earlier when we mentioned that other rights would be under attack following attacks on the 2a..

It's starting to look like Rally 2.0 is already needed as the thin skinned Gov didn't seem to get the memo that the people will not stand for his bullshit and was indeed hurt by people calling him out on his blackface.

Doesn't surprise me, after all there was one of those pussies who called the rally terrorism. I don't see how HB1627 is remotely constitutional as that is clearly a 1st Amendment infringement.
Virginia Dem: Gun-Rights Rally Was ‘Terrorism’
Their disdain for anything remotely enumerated is nearly complete.

Then there is this worthless cunt.
Lavin: The Threat Posed By the Richmond Gun Rights Marchers is Masked By Their Whiteness. Guess all of those brown and black toned people were also white, eh?

At this point, the fake news and lamestream media and other worthless pundit are trying their hardest to pain the rally as white supremacist/insurrectionist/terrorism, etc.
Lots of boot lickers out there that have a disdain for individual liberty and those who dare exercise their enumerated rights.

[Ifreann]

Yeah, I bet their problem is things that are enumerated. Definitely. It's only logical that people who disagree with me have absurd, nonsensical reasoning behind their political positions. I am very smart.


Also male genitalia are good and represent strength and bravery and female genitalia are bad and represent weakness and cowardice and this is a very normal thing to believe.

[Satuga]

Yeah, I bet their problem is things that are enumerated. Definitely. It's only logical that people who disagree with me have absurd, nonsensical reasoning behind their political positions. I am very smart.


Also male genitalia are good and represent strength and bravery and female genitalia are bad and represent weakness and cowardice and this is a very normal thing to believe.

Literally never heard of this analogy before.

[Ifreann]

Yeah, I bet their problem is things that are enumerated. Definitely. It's only logical that people who disagree with me have absurd, nonsensical reasoning behind their political positions. I am very smart.


Also male genitalia are good and represent strength and bravery and female genitalia are bad and represent weakness and cowardice and this is a very normal thing to believe.

Literally never heard of this analogy before.

It's probably something we shouldn't think about, definitely not reflective of sexist beliefs so deeply ingrained that people don't even recognise the sexism.

[Satuga]

Literally never heard of this analogy before.

It's probably something we shouldn't think about, definitely not reflective of sexist beliefs so deeply ingrained that people don't even recognise the sexism.

Like how men are supposed to have hearts of stone, or that men arent allowed to hit a woman back? Then again were getting a little off topic this is probably something for the femenist thread.