Magnum Exitium wrote:Well, normally I'd support the National Party, as they are closer to my trashy right-wing system, but as they're not putting out many candidates, I'd say that Fianna Fail is the way to go. Their commitment to the Irish language is pretty admirable. I don't want to see the language of my ancestors die off, even if it won't affect me over here in America. I think my only issue would be with their economic interventionism, but nothing's perfect, and getting Leo out is the way to go.
Thankfully the lunatic right wing fringe has no hope of ever taking off in Ireland.
A Rossy wrote:The War of Independence was never about any political position, Socialists, Conservatives, Monarchists or just down right republicans all fought side by side. All the young lads who were in the RA were more just thinking about Irish liberation. Political divisions sadly came from the civil war. Sinn Fein only came far left socialists in around the late 20s, all the non socialists left with Dev in 1925. However 1916 was different, it was a small rising of only a few thousand, pretty much all the martyrs (god rest their souls) were Socialists. Funny how you see Far right talking about them.
FF and FG are definitely different, the people who say there all the same are looking at the base policies and not the history or the party itself. Especially on the issue of the North. But again this all goes back to the civil war, FF were and still are the Anti-Treaty, Republican party, were as FG were obviously the party of the Free State. Look at the history, as soon as FF gained power they declared Ireland a republic and left the commonwealth, they didn't help the Brits during WW2 and declared the nation forever neutral, they also set up a pension scheme for member of the IRA during the War of Independence. Even in the basics like last names, the majority of FG TDs surnames have been Anglo-Norman and the majority of FF TDs surnames have been Gaelic.
1) Ireland was only declared a republic in 1949 under an FG led government.
2) Ireland was neutral in WWII but undoubtedly helped the allied side, EG weather reports were sent to London, they let Allied aircraft use the Donegal corridor and any allied personnel who crashed in the state were quietly dropped off at the border while Germans were detained in the Curragh.
3) The only time SF were far left socialists was in the 1960s in the build up to the provo-official split. The commies set up Official SF who subsequently became Sinn Féin The Workers Party and then the Workers Party. Note that the majority of that party quietly became uber capitalists like so many other "communists" around the world after the fall of the Soviet Union, split and joined the Labour Party and ruined it.
Greater Carloso wrote:Philjia wrote:In 1974 the Provisional IRA killed 21 innocent civilians in the English city of Birmingham with time bombs placed in pubs. 182 more were injured. Six innocent Irishmen were wrongfully convicted of carrying out the attack and spent 16 years in prison. The legacy of the troubles is a pile of innocent bodies built by violent sectarianism like that which motivated the IRA. More than half the people killed in the Troubles were civilians who didn't do anything except be born in the wrong place and sometimes believe in the wrong thing. The IRA, the Ulster Loyalists, and the British government forces were complicit in acts of shocking brutality that have left lasting, perhaps incurable scars on the face of Northern Ireland. Gerry Adams, the previous leader of SF, always denied being in the RA, and there was insufficient evidence to convict him, and I don't think a single person in the whole of the UK believed him in the slightest. When stupid Americans shout "up the RA!", this is what they're endorsing, and the same fucking sectarianism which has blighted Northern Irish politics for longer than I've been alive.
This, to be honest. The barbarism of the so-called 'IRA' has been romanticised amongst a lot of younger people here in Ireland and among Irish Americans who really don't have a great understanding of Irish history or politics. The IRA in the north were nothing but far-left terrorists and glorified drug barons/bank robbers, same with the Unionist paramilitary butchers (UDF/UDR/UVF) who massacred 34 Irish people with the assistance of the British regime in the Dublin-Monaghan bombings, along with many other Catholics. Arlene Fosters' father was severely injured in a shooting and she herself was almost killed in a bomb attack on a bus by the IRA. Sinn Fein/IRA have done nothing to bring the Reunification of Ireland closer, only caused more division, and ultimately the GFA has only painted over the cracks that still exist. They make a mockery of Irish republicanism.
There is also great irony in the fact that Sinn Fein allowed Westminister to impose English-made law legalising gay marraige and abortion in the North, without so much as a whimper of dissent. They are not Irish nationalists.
Criticisms of the IRA and Sinn Féin's role in the Troubles are legitimate and I'm not going to criticise you on your points about the IRA.
However, the last statement is nonsense. Ofc they didn't raise a whimper of dissent. In fact they did the opposite. Their northern leader expressed great delight. They fully agree with marriage equality and are pro-choice. And they're still Irish nationalists. But they realised that these important rights could only be introduced by going over the heads of the DUP. If anything, this shows great maturity, IE instead of automatically rejecting something that originated in Westminster like some might expect them to do, they stood back and saw how it improves ordinary people's lives and backed it.
Irish people typically remember too much history. Ergo FG's efforts at commemorating the Auxies and the Black and Tans went down like a lead balloon. At the same time, I think a lot of people can accept SF's role in the Troubles is the past and move on. They're a different party and movement now compared to 30/40 years ago. People see that and judge them on their current policies.
Bear Stearns wrote:I have distant Irish ancestry so allow me to speak authoritatively on Irish politics and aggressively chime in on issues.
I appreciate this post.
Socialist Mercanda wrote:The REDC poll is due tonight - should be interesting. I wonder how will SF fare, since in the last REDC poll in November it only polled in at 11 points. And interesting to see if the Fine Gael nosedive we saw in the IpsosMRBI and the B&A poll will be replicated as well - and who's to gain.
I would favour a FF-led coalition, and I plan to vote FF 1, 2, and 3 in my constituency (Kerry) in the order of Brassil-Foley-Moriarty. I would've considered throwing a No. 4 at perhaps Labour, but seeing as they aren't running any candidates in Kerry this time round (for this first time in 70 or 80 odd years I believe), I'll be stopping at Norma Numero Dos.
Details of that poll just out now:
FG 23% (-7)
FF 26% (+2)
SF 19% (+8)
Change is versus the last RedC/Business Post poll in November. In the Irish Times one last week, SF were up 7% versus October. While SF’s vote is always a few percent behind their polls, the trend is encouraging. Here’s hoping for an actual FF/FG government and we can finally move into the 20th century with a normal centre-right v centre-left divide in our politics.
Incidentally, in North Kildare, I’ll be voting Labour no 1, Soc Dem no 2, Sf, 3, Green 4, and the two FGers 5 & 6. I’ll leave it there rather than giving a preference to the ruiners in FF, the Trots in the Socialist Workers Party front organisation (People Before Profit) or bible bashers like Renua.
Posted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:15 pm
To be quite honest, I don’t agree in any shape or form with the argument that FF crashed the economy (although as a FF supporter, I am biased hehe). Every major party enabled the high spending low taxation high borrowing bonanza, and Fine Gael even pledged for even higher spending and even lower taxation! So, I think no matter who was in charge at the time, the economy and the country’s finances were going to implode - and perhaps we should be thankful it was Ahern, not Kenny, in charge at the time, or it could’ve been a lot worse.