Prostitution and presumed double standards

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Now imagine that being your job and you have a quota to fill and no matter how undesirable you find your client, its that or you won't get paid.

You mean exactly like literally every other job ever? I am a highly paid software engineer. I don't get to pick and choose my projects. What the boss says needs doing is what gets done. And if I deeply despise what I am working on tough luck. It's do that or get fired. (For the record I actually love my job. But that's not the point right now.) And it's the same with every other profession out there. The office clerk does not get to choose who comes to him for paperwork. The judge does not choose who comes in for trial. And the doctor does not get to choose who comes in seeking treatment. They have to treat all clients as equal and do their best or else they lose their job. So why should prostitution be any different?

The one and only reason why you feel the way you do is because for some odd reason you treat sex as being somehow different from any other human interaction out there. Where it really is not.

And before you jump to say "oh, but it's the poor people who do prostitution. They'll starve unless they have sex for money." guess what? If I lose my job tomorrow I won't have any more money to buy bread than any unemployed prostitute would. Job = money. No job = no money. And your profession of choice does not change this.

I honestly wonder if the "prostitutes are desperate" crowd are for the most part unemployed themselves, whether because they're too young for a job or otherwise. Their worldview seems completely out of touch with the realities of the modern workplace.

[Nakena]

I honestly wonder if the "prostitutes are desperate" crowd are for the most part unemployed themselves, whether because they're too young for a job or otherwise. Their worldview seems completely out of touch with the realities of the modern workplace.

It's more that their worldview is rooted in certain idealized-past and moralist ideas of the world that are rooted in christianity, but probably more in the 1950s as the usual zero reference point time for those crowds. Perhaps also some hidden shame given that theres a dozen pornsites one incognito browser tab away from the staunch defenders of christian civilization. ^^

I've used to work in the adult industry a couple of years ago and most performers also happened to be escorts and were mostly in for the money and a number of other unfathomable reasons. Can't say anyone came across as desperate.

[Arkhane]

Now imagine that being your job and you have a quota to fill and no matter how undesirable you find your client, its that or you won't get paid.

You mean exactly like literally every other job ever? I am a highly paid software engineer. I don't get to pick and choose my projects. What the boss says needs doing is what gets done. And if I deeply despise what I am working on tough luck. It's do that or get fired. (For the record I actually love my job. But that's not the point right now.) And it's the same with every other profession out there. The office clerk does not get to choose who comes to him for paperwork. The judge does not choose who comes in for trial. And the doctor does not get to choose who comes in seeking treatment. They have to treat all clients as equal and do their best or else they lose their job. So why should prostitution be any different?

The one and only reason why you feel the way you do is because for some odd reason you treat sex as being somehow different from any other human interaction out there. Where it really is not.

And before you jump to say "oh, but it's the poor people who do prostitution. They'll starve unless they have sex for money." guess what? If I lose my job tomorrow I won't have any more money to buy bread than any unemployed prostitute would. Job = money. No job = no money. And your profession of choice does not change this.

There is a HUGE difference between sitting on a computer or waiting tables and sucking a 67 year old rich man's herpes ridden cock, no matter how hygienic or medically well-compensated it is, prostitutes are exposed to a lot of diseases and pathogens, they can't exactly wear hazmat suits. Bodily and fluid contact is inevitable.

The average prostitute's client is not a sexy, hygienic and desirable porn actor or actress. There's a reason why they have to pay for someone to have sex with them.

The fact that you compared prostitution to being a software engineer is nothing short of ignorant. Prostitution isn't the glamorous, enticing fantasy you watch or see being depicted so much in porn.

[Ors Might]

You mean exactly like literally every other job ever? I am a highly paid software engineer. I don't get to pick and choose my projects. What the boss says needs doing is what gets done. And if I deeply despise what I am working on tough luck. It's do that or get fired. (For the record I actually love my job. But that's not the point right now.) And it's the same with every other profession out there. The office clerk does not get to choose who comes to him for paperwork. The judge does not choose who comes in for trial. And the doctor does not get to choose who comes in seeking treatment. They have to treat all clients as equal and do their best or else they lose their job. So why should prostitution be any different?

The one and only reason why you feel the way you do is because for some odd reason you treat sex as being somehow different from any other human interaction out there. Where it really is not.

And before you jump to say "oh, but it's the poor people who do prostitution. They'll starve unless they have sex for money." guess what? If I lose my job tomorrow I won't have any more money to buy bread than any unemployed prostitute would. Job = money. No job = no money. And your profession of choice does not change this.

There is a HUGE difference between sitting on a computer or waiting tables and sucking a 67 year old rich man's herpes ridden cock, no matter how hygienic or medically well-compensated it is, prostitutes are exposed to a lot of diseases and pathogens, they can't exactly wear hazmat suits. Bodily and fluid contact is inevitable.

The average prostitute's client is not a sexy, hygienic and desirable porn actor or actress. There's a reason why they have to pay for someone to have sex with them.

The fact that you compared prostitution to being a software engineer is nothing short of ignorant. Prostitution isn't the glamorous, enticing fantasy you watch or see being depicted so much in porn.

So prostitution is a job that can suck (pun unintended) and will likely require extensive regulation. That’s not a whole lot different from most jobs.

[Arkhane]

I honestly wonder if the "prostitutes are desperate" crowd are for the most part unemployed themselves, whether because they're too young for a job or otherwise. Their worldview seems completely out of touch with the realities of the modern workplace.

It's more that their worldview is rooted in certain idealized-past and moralist ideas of the world that are rooted in christianity, but probably more in the 1950s as the usual zero reference point time for those crowds. Perhaps also some hidden shame given that theres a dozen pornsites one incognito browser tab away from the staunch defenders of christian civilization. ^^

I've used to work in the adult industry a couple of years ago and most performers also happened to be escorts and were mostly in for the money and a number of other unfathomable reasons. Can't say anyone came across as desperate.

Porn actors and escorts are a far cry from street walkers and alley hookers from ghettos and seedy districts, I don't think anyone would want to open up and say they enjoy or find pleasure being done behind a dumpster by an ugly passer-by.

Are you saying they don't find it acceptable because "well they just have an idealized world-view through some rooted christian values".

[Andsed]

There is a HUGE difference between sitting on a computer or waiting tables and sucking a 67 year old rich man's herpes ridden cock, no matter how hygienic or medically well-compensated it is, prostitutes are exposed to a lot of diseases and pathogens, they can't exactly wear hazmat suits. Bodily and fluid contact is inevitable.

The average prostitute's client is not a sexy, hygienic and desirable porn actor or actress. There's a reason why they have to pay for someone to have sex with them.

The fact that you compared prostitution to being a software engineer is nothing short of ignorant. Prostitution isn't the glamorous, enticing fantasy you watch or see being depicted so much in porn.

So prostitution is a job that can suck (pun unintended) and will likely require extensive regulation. That’s not a whole lot different from most jobs.

Pretty much. Keeping prostitution illegal is not helpful to anyone. Legalizing it would allow for regulations and protections for prostitutes.

[Ors Might]

So prostitution is a job that can suck (pun unintended) and will likely require extensive regulation. That’s not a whole lot different from most jobs.

Pretty much. Keeping prostitution illegal is not helpful to anyone. Legalizing it would allow for regulations and protections for prostitutes.

If you simply can’t prevent an industry from existing, then the best move you can make is to regulate it. But this would require people to do something to help the men and women in sex work. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think a lot of folk are up for that.

[Arkhane]

There is a HUGE difference between sitting on a computer or waiting tables and sucking a 67 year old rich man's herpes ridden cock, no matter how hygienic or medically well-compensated it is, prostitutes are exposed to a lot of diseases and pathogens, they can't exactly wear hazmat suits. Bodily and fluid contact is inevitable.

The average prostitute's client is not a sexy, hygienic and desirable porn actor or actress. There's a reason why they have to pay for someone to have sex with them.

The fact that you compared prostitution to being a software engineer is nothing short of ignorant. Prostitution isn't the glamorous, enticing fantasy you watch or see being depicted so much in porn.

So prostitution is a job that can suck (pun unintended) and will likely require extensive regulation. That’s not a whole lot different from most jobs.

Most jobs don't require you to touch/kiss/fondle your client.

Here's an experiment, let's say Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump told you that he would pay you $2,500,000 if you would lick their ass for an hour.

If your answer is yes the first time, then would you still give them a rim-job if they DON'T pay you?

If your answer is no, congratulations, you just learned that consent and bodily integrity can be overriden if you use enough force through incentive (i.e it doesn't matter if you're unwilling, If I'm rich enough and you're desperate enough, I'll have your body.)

[Ors Might]

So prostitution is a job that can suck (pun unintended) and will likely require extensive regulation. That’s not a whole lot different from most jobs.

Most jobs don't require you to touch/kiss/fondle your client.

Here's an experiment, let's say Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump told you that he would pay you $2,500,000 if you would lick their ass for an hour.

If your answer is yes the first time, then would you still give them a rim-job if they DON'T pay you?

If your answer is no, congratulations, you just learned that consent and bodily integrity can be overriden if you use enough force through incentive (i.e it doesn't matter if you're unwilling, If I'm rich enough and you're desperate enough, I'll have your body.)

So what you’re saying is that people will do degrading, disgusting jobs if they pay well enough? Quick, someone tell people working in the sewers!

What’s your point here, anyway? That because prostitutes often have unpleasant looking clientele, we shouldn’t regulate the industry and give them protections like any other worker?

[Arkhane]

Pretty much. Keeping prostitution illegal is not helpful to anyone. Legalizing it would allow for regulations and protections for prostitutes.

If you simply can’t prevent an industry from existing, then the best move you can make is to regulate it. But this would require people to do something to help the men and women in sex work. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think a lot of folk are up for that.

Should we regulate illegal drugs like crystal meth and heroin then, since after all, it's an unavoidable industry.

[Ors Might]

If you simply can’t prevent an industry from existing, then the best move you can make is to regulate it. But this would require people to do something to help the men and women in sex work. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think a lot of folk are up for that.

Should we regulate illegal drugs like crystal meth and heroin then, since after all, it's an unavoidable industry.

Yes. The War On Drugs is stupid.

[Arkhane]

Most jobs don't require you to touch/kiss/fondle your client.

Here's an experiment, let's say Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump told you that he would pay you $2,500,000 if you would lick their ass for an hour.

If your answer is yes the first time, then would you still give them a rim-job if they DON'T pay you?

If your answer is no, congratulations, you just learned that consent and bodily integrity can be overriden if you use enough force through incentive (i.e it doesn't matter if you're unwilling, If I'm rich enough and you're desperate enough, I'll have your body.)

So what you’re saying is that people will do degrading, disgusting jobs if they pay well enough? Quick, someone tell people working in the sewers!

What’s your point here, anyway? That because prostitutes often have unpleasant looking clientele, we shouldn’t regulate the industry and give them protections like any other worker?

I mean, sure, we can make prostitutes wear hazmat suits and use sewage drainage machines to stimulate their clients, but aside from people who are into that sort of thing, I highly doubt it would thrive as an industry.

[Arkhane]

Should we regulate illegal drugs like crystal meth and heroin then, since after all, it's an unavoidable industry.

Yes. The War On Drugs is stupid.

Yeah, San Francisco is a shining example of a society where lax drug laws are creating a crime-free and shit-free paradise.

[Ors Might]

So what you’re saying is that people will do degrading, disgusting jobs if they pay well enough? Quick, someone tell people working in the sewers!

What’s your point here, anyway? That because prostitutes often have unpleasant looking clientele, we shouldn’t regulate the industry and give them protections like any other worker?

I mean, sure, we can make prostitutes wear hazmat suits and use sewage drainage machines to stimulate their clients, but aside from people who are into that sort of thing, I highly doubt it would thrive as an industry.

Is that the only safe way for sexual intercourse?

[Ors Might]

Yes. The War On Drugs is stupid.

Yeah, San Francisco is a shining example of a society where lax drug laws are creating a crime-free and shit-free paradise.

In what world do regulations translate into lax laws?

[Andsed]

So prostitution is a job that can suck (pun unintended) and will likely require extensive regulation. That’s not a whole lot different from most jobs.

Most jobs don't require you to touch/kiss/fondle your client.

Here's an experiment, let's say Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump told you that he would pay you $2,500,000 if you would lick their ass for an hour.

If your answer is yes the first time, then would you still give them a rim-job if they DON'T pay you?

If your answer is no, congratulations, you just learned that consent and bodily integrity can be overriden if you use enough force through incentive (i.e it doesn't matter if you're unwilling, If I'm rich enough and you're desperate enough, I'll have your body.)

Nonsense. Consent is not overridden in that scenario. If a legal adult agrees to suck a dick or lick an ass for payment then that is still consent. Where is the issue in a legal adult who is informed of the conditions of the sex agreeing to have sex with another legal adult for an agreed upon payment?

So what you’re saying is that people will do degrading, disgusting jobs if they pay well enough? Quick, someone tell people working in the sewers!

What’s your point here, anyway? That because prostitutes often have unpleasant looking clientele, we shouldn’t regulate the industry and give them protections like any other worker?

I mean, sure, we can make prostitutes wear hazmat suits and use sewage drainage machines to stimulate their clients, but aside from people who are into that sort of thing, I highly doubt it would thrive as an industry.

Or we could you know, legalize the industry and give the power to the prostitutes to refuse and providing regulations(such as requiring those that wish to hire prostitutes be tested for STD´s)instead of keeping it illegal which helps no one.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I honestly wonder if the "prostitutes are desperate" crowd are for the most part unemployed themselves, whether because they're too young for a job or otherwise. Their worldview seems completely out of touch with the realities of the modern workplace.

It's more that their worldview is rooted in certain idealized-past and moralist ideas of the world that are rooted in christianity, but probably more in the 1950s as the usual zero reference point time for those crowds.

Still doesn't explain why enough voters oppose prostitution for it to remain heavily criminalized, when all the other things mentioned are perfectly legal.

[Jabberwocky]

You want to rent your body? That's your business.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

There is a HUGE difference between sitting on a computer or waiting tables and sucking a 67 year old rich man's herpes ridden cock, no matter how hygienic or medically well-compensated it is, prostitutes are exposed to a lot of diseases and pathogens, they can't exactly wear hazmat suits. Bodily and fluid contact is inevitable.

Every job has its workplace hazards. Nuclear power plant workers risk radioactive contamination. Fast food workers risk grease burns. Professional athletes risk head injuries. There's always a tradeoff between consumer demand and safety. But a blanket ban on the entirety of a profession is never the answer.

If anything, well-regulated prostitution subjects customers to more scrutiny than they would face if they were to do... whatever results in having casual sex for free. (There's been a lot of dispute on that one. I'm betting it depends on the town.)

The average prostitute's client is not a sexy, hygienic and desirable porn actor or actress. There's a reason why they have to pay for someone to have sex with them.

I've been called sexy by girls shouting from their cars driving by, and I'd still consider having sex with a prostitute if it were legal, regulated, and some brothel had a policy of not going after customers for child support bills. (As opposed to random strangers who might be looking to have sex with me specifically to fleece me for child support money for all I know.)

The fact that you compared prostitution to being a software engineer is nothing short of ignorant. Prostitution isn't the glamorous, enticing fantasy you watch or see being depicted so much in porn.

If your worldview is less convincing than the storyline to a porno, that doesn't reflect very well on your worldview.

[Arkhane]

Most jobs don't require you to touch/kiss/fondle your client.

Here's an experiment, let's say Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump told you that he would pay you $2,500,000 if you would lick their ass for an hour.

If your answer is yes the first time, then would you still give them a rim-job if they DON'T pay you?

If your answer is no, congratulations, you just learned that consent and bodily integrity can be overriden if you use enough force through incentive (i.e it doesn't matter if you're unwilling, If I'm rich enough and you're desperate enough, I'll have your body.)

Nonsense. Consent is not overridden in that scenario. If a legal adult agrees to suck a dick or lick an ass for payment then that is still consent. Where is the issue in a legal adult who is informed of the conditions of the sex agreeing to have sex with another legal adult for an agreed upon payment?

I mean, sure, we can make prostitutes wear hazmat suits and use sewage drainage machines to stimulate their clients, but aside from people who are into that sort of thing, I highly doubt it would thrive as an industry.

Or we could you know, legalize the industry and give the power to the prostitutes to refuse and providing regulations(such as requiring those that wish to hire prostitutes be tested for STD´s)instead of keeping it illegal which helps no one.

That's the problem, sex is not a simple transaction like ordering a burger or having your car cleaned. You are literally giving over your body to someone who often has varied approach to intimacy.

You can go ahead and regulate that by saying that prostitution would require a lengthy list of what clients can and cannot do and write a whole treatise before you do the deed. But ask yourself seriously, do you think government regulations are effective and fool-proof safe guards that prevent businesses and companies from exploiting and abusing both employees or their customers?

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

If you simply can’t prevent an industry from existing, then the best move you can make is to regulate it. But this would require people to do something to help the men and women in sex work. I don’t know about you, but I don’t think a lot of folk are up for that.

Should we regulate illegal drugs like crystal meth and heroin then, since after all, it's an unavoidable industry.

Might as well. The current approach is to use safe injection sites that undermine drug enforcement anyway. (Which, again, would be like if the legal system had "safe brothels" where johns were immune from prosecution as long as they went there.) It's almost as if a majority of voters opposed this stupid war on drugs deep down but didn't want to say so lest they be accused of doing drugs themselves.

As for the powers that be, they had different reasons to start this war on drugs altogether.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Nonsense. Consent is not overridden in that scenario. If a legal adult agrees to suck a dick or lick an ass for payment then that is still consent. Where is the issue in a legal adult who is informed of the conditions of the sex agreeing to have sex with another legal adult for an agreed upon payment?


Or we could you know, legalize the industry and give the power to the prostitutes to refuse and providing regulations(such as requiring those that wish to hire prostitutes be tested for STD´s)instead of keeping it illegal which helps no one.

That's the problem, sex is not a simple transaction like ordering a burger or having your car cleaned. You are literally giving over your body to someone who often has varied approach to intimacy.

You can go ahead and regulate that by saying that prostitution would require a lengthy list of what clients can and cannot do and write a whole treatise before you do the deed. But ask yourself seriously, do you think government regulations are effective and fool-proof safe guards that prevent businesses and companies from exploiting and abusing both employees or their customers?

They aren't.

But they're a better option than throwing people in prison and giving them a criminal record over an honest transaction.

[Andsed]

Nonsense. Consent is not overridden in that scenario. If a legal adult agrees to suck a dick or lick an ass for payment then that is still consent. Where is the issue in a legal adult who is informed of the conditions of the sex agreeing to have sex with another legal adult for an agreed upon payment?


Or we could you know, legalize the industry and give the power to the prostitutes to refuse and providing regulations(such as requiring those that wish to hire prostitutes be tested for STD´s)instead of keeping it illegal which helps no one.

That's the problem, sex is not a simple transaction like ordering a burger or having your car cleaned. You are literally giving over your body to someone who often has varied approach to intimacy.

You can go ahead and regulate that by saying that prostitution would require a lengthy list of what clients can and cannot do and write a whole treatise before you do the deed. But ask yourself seriously, do you think government regulations are effective and fool-proof safe guards that prevent businesses and companies from exploiting and abusing both employees or their customers?

And? If a consenting adult is fine with ¨giving their body to someone¨where is the issue? And yes regulations are not fool proof but they are a hell of lot better than the current situation.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Yes. The War On Drugs is stupid.

Yeah, San Francisco is a shining example of a society where lax drug laws are creating a crime-free and shit-free paradise.

More like an example of what happens when rent is so expensive they've nothing to lose by doing drugs.

[Kaltovar]

I think it should be completely legal, but I think most things should be unrestricted.