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Antityranicals
Minister
 
Posts: 2471
Founded: May 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Antityranicals » Sat Jan 11, 2020 4:58 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:Know well that I literally don't care what the irrelevant bureaucrats at the UN want to declare, and that their declaration literally changes nothing.

If you are determined to discard the definitions of words again, and instead substitute your own definition in order to try to make a point, then I don't see how we can discuss this with any semblance of seriousness.

No, I'm just noting that the UN's declaration doesn't make a definition any more than my declaration would. The definition I'm going with is: "The deliberate killing of a large group of people," which I believe is the actual definition.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
HS student in the USA. Male. XC runner, 17:30 5k, 4:59 mile. I enjoy singing, sushi, eating large quantities of food, and eating large quantities of sushi.

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Salus Maior
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19046
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:11 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:[

As far as I'm concerned, a fetus that hasn't developed viable organs and the appearance of a person isn't a person. It's something that may become human but human it is not. By the time the fetus is what I would call a human, it can survive outside the womb (with some medical assistance or maybe without it) and can become a fully grown normal person. A fetus that is two months old is as human as the skin cells I killed when I washed my face this morning.


That's a dreadfully objective statement for a paragraph full of subjectivity.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

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The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27490
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:14 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:If you are determined to discard the definitions of words again, and instead substitute your own definition in order to try to make a point, then I don't see how we can discuss this with any semblance of seriousness.

No, I'm just noting that the UN's declaration doesn't make a definition any more than my declaration would. The definition I'm going with is: "The deliberate killing of a large group of people," which I believe is the actual definition.

No, that is not the definition of genocide. If you want to discard the definition of a word and substitute your own in its place then you need some damn weighty justification and evidence that such a change is justified.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:15 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Not equivalent.

Where's the discrepancy?


I'm not literally connected to and entirely dependent on my house.


Though yes, I'd say that the contents of my house are a part of my house.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

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Crockerland
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5320
Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:16 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Crockerland wrote:Both very good descriptors for abortion, too.

Abortion isn't genocide.

Of course it is.

From UN General Assembly Resolution 96
"Genocide is a denial of the right of existence of entire human groups, as homicide is the denial of the right to live of individual human beings; such deniel of the rich of existence shocks the conscience of mankind, [...]"


Abortion facilitates the genocide of, among others, the following human groups:

The Disabled
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/down-syndrome-iceland
Since prenatal screening tests were introduced in Iceland in the early 2000s, the vast majority of women -- close to 100 percent -- who received a positive test for Down syndrome terminated their pregnancy.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2280183/Prenatal-testing-prompts-rise-abortions-deaf-babies.html
Hearing loss can be a curse if it's linked to a revelation as heart-breaking as this.

According to a survey conducted by Delhi's Sir Ganga Ram hospital, a majority of would-be parents would opt for an abortion if knew they are going to have a hearing-impaired child.

The study was published in a recent issue of American Journal of Medical Genetics.





LGBTI Individuals, specifically Intersex people
https://web.archive.org/web/20170422141944/http://astraeafoundation.org/wearereal/#human-rights-issues
"The idea that all bodies should fit neatly into mutually exclusive categories of “male” and “female” sexes ignores the diversity among us and perpetuates the stigma associated with being intersex. Such convictions are used to justify non-consensual and cosmetic medical interventions to make intersex bodies conform to societal and medical norms. They also underlie the discrimination that intersex people face in various aspects of daily life. Due to the dominance of the medical discourse, such harmful practices have only recently begun to be recognized as human rights violations. Only a few countries have explicit legal protections for intersex people, which means that abuses continue to this day and reparations or access to justice remain rare.

[...]

In some cases, a decision is made even before a child is born, where fetuses with intersex traits may be subjected to prenatal “normalizing” treatments or selected for abortion. In places where access to medical care is more limited and beliefs about intersex are deeply negative, the choices made can also be extreme; intersex rights groups report that in parts of Uganda and rural China, intersex infants may be abandoned or killed.


http://stop.genitalmutilation.org/post/Selective-Intersex-Abortions-Hypospadias-Intersex-XXY
"Scientific "marvels" nazi-eugenicists could only dream of are widespread reality today – e.g. selective (late term) abortions of intersex foetuses "undesirable from an eugenics standpoint" (Hans Christian Naujoks 1934) because of "hereditary diseases due to abnormal predispositions, including hypospadias, pseudohermaphroditism, intersexuality, cryptorchidism and epispadias" (Baur, Fischer, Lenz 1936) – in exponentially growing rates thanks to prenatal testing. Nonetheless, public debate of such "eugenic indications" is found lacking, with occasional exceptions proving the rule mainly zeroing in on trisomy 21."


Here's a display of the abortion rates of those with Klinefelter Syndrome in various countries:
Image

https://ihra.org.au/25621/submission-ethics-genetic-selection-intersex-traits/
"Despite these low rates of diagnosis, termination rates for 47,XXY once diagnosed during pregnancy are known to reach up to 88% The framing of this diagnosis as a major genetic disorder thus has a dramatic impact on the percentage of pregnancies carried to term. We believe that this impact far outweighs the largely benign consequences of sex chromosome differences."



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/10/intersex-babies-genetic-embryo-testing
""Designer babies” seems like a concept from a dystopian future, but they’re here now: would-be parents who utilize in-vitro fertilization to conceive often also have the option of genetically testing embryos and then picking which one to implant.

Scientists can test for hundreds of things, from fatal genetic traits like Tay-Sachs and Huntington disease to non-fatal but culturally devalued embodiments like Down syndrome, deafness, blindness and intersex conditions.

Like pre-natal tests, the purpose of preimplantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) is clear: to allow women to choose which embryo or fetus to try to bring to term, and to terminate those which they do not. Like many scientists, I support women’s choices to terminate pregnancies or select against a potential fetus, even when I might prefer they did not. But it is important to acknowledge that using PGD to select against culturally devalued bodies, like those of people with disabilities or who are intersex, is simply a contemporary example of eugenics."







Women
https://phys.org/news/2019-04-long-term-gender-based-abortions-skewed-gender.html
"A team of researchers from Singapore, the United Nations Population Division, and the U.S. has found that abortions based on gender lead to larger-than-thought distortions in gender ratios. In their paper published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the group describes their five-year study of population and gender ratios and what they found.

[...]

The researchers refer to the babies that were not born due to gender-based abortion as "missing females." They calculated that China currently has approximately 11.9 million missing females and India has approximately 10.6 million missing females. The grand combined total for all of the countries in the study came to approximately 23.1 million missing females. The researchers suggest that such calculations need to be taken into consideration when making population estimates in the future."
Last edited by Crockerland on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
National Liberalism, Nuclear & Geothermal Power, GMOs, Vaccines, Self-defense, Biodiesel, LGBTI equality, Universal healthcare, Constitutional Carry, Emotional Support Twinks, Right to life


User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:16 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:Yes. Before birth, it's a part of the mother's body. Separation is when it becomes an independent being with its own life.


The fetus is not a part of the mother's body, though. It is an independent living organism that relies upon the mother for the resources and environment necessary for it to develop to the point where it can survive independently outside of the mother's body. Based on this criterion and your concept of personhood, that would be around 22 weeks for the earliest current potential viability of a prematurely-born baby.


It isn't independent, though. It's entirely dependent. On what basis are you claiming that it is not part of her body? In particular, what distinction are you making between a foetus and a tumour in that regard?
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:18 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Except they aren't, as a latter disconnect does not prove a difference in the here and now. If the person's existence from the moment their existence started was being physically plumbed into the house in such a manner as to be totally dependent on it, without an ability to be separated from it lest they die, then they would for all intents and purposes be part of the house.

But this analogy is just fucking ridiculous. It was before, but the amount of bending and twisting it needs to make it remotely equivalent to what we are discussing is obscene.

Things are defined by their essence. The essence of an embryo is just as fundamentally different from the essence of his or her mother as the your essence is different than that of your mother. Physical attachment does not homogenize two separate essences.


What the flying fuck is an "essence"? Define it.
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27490
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:19 pm

Crockerland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Abortion isn't genocide.

Of course it is.

From UN General Assembly Resolution 96
"Genocide is a denial of the right of existence of entire human groups, as homicide is the denial of the right to live of individual human beings; such deniel of the rich of existence shocks the conscience of mankind, [...]"

That still does not make abortion genocide.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:20 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Sorry, but that does not make abortion and genocide the same thing, as genocide is intentional action to destroy a people in whole or in part. Abortion does not fit that.

The legalization of abortion is an intentional argument to destroy the subset of the human race which is not yet born and which is undesired by their parents. The legalization of abortion is genocide.


That's not a genotype.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:If you are determined to discard the definitions of words again, and instead substitute your own definition in order to try to make a point, then I don't see how we can discuss this with any semblance of seriousness.

No, I'm just noting that the UN's declaration doesn't make a definition any more than my declaration would. The definition I'm going with is: "The deliberate killing of a large group of people," which I believe is the actual definition.


Then you are simply not speaking English.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salus Maior
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19046
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:21 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
The fetus is not a part of the mother's body, though. It is an independent living organism that relies upon the mother for the resources and environment necessary for it to develop to the point where it can survive independently outside of the mother's body. Based on this criterion and your concept of personhood, that would be around 22 weeks for the earliest current potential viability of a prematurely-born baby.


It isn't independent, though. It's entirely dependent. On what basis are you claiming that it is not part of her body? In particular, what distinction are you making between a foetus and a tumour in that regard?


Independence has no bearing on humanity. There are plenty of human beings which are dependent on others for survival, newborns in particular.

And call a fetus a tumor as if they're the same in front of any professional in the field, and they'd laugh their asses off. They're not the same, and it's a bad analogy.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:22 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
It isn't independent, though. It's entirely dependent. On what basis are you claiming that it is not part of her body? In particular, what distinction are you making between a foetus and a tumour in that regard?


Independence has no bearing on humanity. There are plenty of human beings which are dependent on others for survival, newborns in particular.

And call a fetus a tumor as if they're the same in front of any professional in the field, and they'd laugh their asses off. They're not the same, and it's a bad analogy.


That's not what I said. Stop fucking lying.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Antityranicals
Minister
 
Posts: 2471
Founded: May 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Antityranicals » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:23 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:No, I'm just noting that the UN's declaration doesn't make a definition any more than my declaration would. The definition I'm going with is: "The deliberate killing of a large group of people," which I believe is the actual definition.

No, that is not the definition of genocide. If you want to discard the definition of a word and substitute your own in its place then you need some damn weighty justification and evidence that such a change is justified.

Plug it into Google. What I wrote is what you'll get.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
HS student in the USA. Male. XC runner, 17:30 5k, 4:59 mile. I enjoy singing, sushi, eating large quantities of food, and eating large quantities of sushi.

User avatar
Salus Maior
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19046
Founded: Jun 16, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:24 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Independence has no bearing on humanity. There are plenty of human beings which are dependent on others for survival, newborns in particular.

And call a fetus a tumor as if they're the same in front of any professional in the field, and they'd laugh their asses off. They're not the same, and it's a bad analogy.


That's not what I said. Stop fucking lying.


Then why mention dependency at all? Why mention tumors?

My apologies if you're getting upset, but that's your own damn fault for having a shitty ideology and argument.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Traditionalist Catholic, Constitutional Monarchist, Habsburg Nostalgic.

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. -1 Timothy 1:15

“My entire endeavor has always been to clearly recognize the Will of God in all things and to follow it as completely as possible.” -Blessed Charles of Austria, last Habsburg Emperor

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:27 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
That's not what I said. Stop fucking lying.


Then why mention dependency at all? Why mention tumors?

My apologies if you're getting upset, but that's your own damn fault for having a shitty ideology and argument.


You not reading the discussion that you jumped into the middle of is a you problem.
Last edited by Salandriagado on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
Salandriagado
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21875
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Salandriagado » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:27 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:No, that is not the definition of genocide. If you want to discard the definition of a word and substitute your own in its place then you need some damn weighty justification and evidence that such a change is justified.

Plug it into Google. What I wrote is what you'll get.


Liar.
Cosara wrote:
Anachronous Rex wrote:Good thing most a majority of people aren't so small-minded, and frightened of other's sexuality.

Over 40% (including me), are, so I fixed the post for accuracy.

Vilatania wrote:
Salandriagado wrote:
Notice that the link is to the notes from a university course on probability. You clearly have nothing beyond the most absurdly simplistic understanding of the subject.
By choosing 1, you no longer have 0 probability of choosing 1. End of subject.

(read up the quote stack)

Deal. £3000 do?[/quote]

Of course.[/quote]

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27490
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:28 pm

Antityranicals wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:No, that is not the definition of genocide. If you want to discard the definition of a word and substitute your own in its place then you need some damn weighty justification and evidence that such a change is justified.

Plug it into Google. What I wrote is what you'll get.


Genocide, the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race. The term, derived from the Greek genos (“race,” “tribe,” or “nation”) and the Latin cide (“killing”), was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Polish-born jurist who served as an adviser to the U.S. Department of War during World War II.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/genocide
Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-preventi ... s-genocide
genocide noun

geno·​cide | \ ˈje-nə-ˌsīd \
Definition of genocide
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/genocide
genocide
noun [ C/U ]
US /ˈdʒen·əˌsɑɪd/

POLITICS & GOVERNMENT
the intentional killing of all of the people of a nation, religion, or racial group

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... h/genocide


Abortion is not genocide.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Antityranicals
Minister
 
Posts: 2471
Founded: May 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Antityranicals » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:30 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:Plug it into Google. What I wrote is what you'll get.


Liar.

Did you plug it in? Do it. The result is "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation." "Especially" doesn't mean only.
Compass: Right: 9.94, Libertarian: -5.84
Catholic Libertarian. Gov't has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, gov't should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, one of the few things gov't should prevent. Pro-Trump, he's been an effective weapon against real enemies of freedom: The Left, but I wish he were more for free trade, more against deficits. Unrestrained capitalism is a great thing; it does wonders for standards of living of everyone, especially the poor.
HS student in the USA. Male. XC runner, 17:30 5k, 4:59 mile. I enjoy singing, sushi, eating large quantities of food, and eating large quantities of sushi.

User avatar
Crockerland
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5320
Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:34 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Antityranicals wrote:Plug it into Google. What I wrote is what you'll get.


Genocide, the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group of people because of their ethnicity, nationality, religion, or race. The term, derived from the Greek genos (“race,” “tribe,” or “nation”) and the Latin cide (“killing”), was coined by Raphael Lemkin, a Polish-born jurist who served as an adviser to the U.S. Department of War during World War II.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/genocide
Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.

https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-preventi ... s-genocide
genocide noun

geno·​cide | \ ˈje-nə-ˌsīd \
Definition of genocide
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/genocide
genocide
noun [ C/U ]
US /ˈdʒen·əˌsɑɪd/

POLITICS & GOVERNMENT
the intentional killing of all of the people of a nation, religion, or racial group

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... h/genocide


Abortion is not genocide.

So, according to you, the mass murder of disabled and LGBTI people by Hitler's regime during the Holocaust wasn't a genocide?

As I already cited above, the definition of genocide according to UN General Assembly Resolution 96 is simply "denial of the right of existence of entire human groups." I have given in-depth examples of why, even if you do not want to count the unborn as a qualified "human group" for the purposes of genocide, abortion is used to facilitate the eradication of other groups, such as the disabled and the intersex. This is a ridiculous point to argue.
Last edited by Crockerland on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:37 pm

Crockerland wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Abortion is not genocide.

So, according to you, the mass murder of disabled and LGBTI people by Hitler's regime during the Holocaust wasn't a genocide?

Not "according to me" at all.

Crockerland wrote:As I already cited above, the definition of genocide according to UN General Assembly Resolution 96 is simply "denial of the right of existence of entire human groups."

And that definition has been superseded by the The United Nations Genocide Convention.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:38 pm

Crockerland wrote:abortion is used to facilitate the eradication of other groups, such as the disabled and the intersex. This is a ridiculous point to argue.

Abortion being used to facilitate genocide does not make abortion in and of itself genocide.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

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White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm

And I have just now realized that this genocide discussion is off topic. Oops. :?
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

NS Hitman
White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:51 pm

Vetalia wrote:Which election are you talking about?

The 2004 US election.

Vetalia wrote:True, but it also did an enormous amount of good during that same period.

Such as?

Vetalia wrote:This doesn't diminish culpability for the evils committed by Christian churches during their history but even that pales in comparison to the horrific crimes committed by secular ideologies in the 20th century such as fascism and communism.

And what, if anything, would the presence of Christianity have done to prevent such horrible crimes?

Communism was a backlash against years of rich people abusing the poor. It went overboard, but it was a natural consequence of suppressing anti-elitist rage until it could no longer be contained. Fascism, beyond Hitler's invoking of religious rhetoric, tapped into more primal instincts like racism, the same ones these days primarily tapped into by the same politicians elected by religious states.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.

How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.

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Salus Maior
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Salus Maior » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:57 pm

Salandriagado wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
Then why mention dependency at all? Why mention tumors?

My apologies if you're getting upset, but that's your own damn fault for having a shitty ideology and argument.


You not reading the discussion that you jumped into the middle of is a you problem.


So you're going to pretend you're not using the dependency argument when you say this?

Salandriagado wrote:
Yes. Before birth, it's a part of the mother's body. Separation is when it becomes an independent being with its own life.


Come on, this isn't even hard.
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Xmara
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Postby Xmara » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:57 pm

I am a pro-life Christian, but I am willing to make an exception for stem cell research because it has saved so many lives. Many embryos used for stem cell research come from fertility clinics where they were never implanted and were stored for too long to be viable. So rather than just discard them, why not use them to save lives? To me, wasting them would be a greater violation of the sanctity of life and supporting stem cell research is fully compatible with being pro-life.
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