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Iran vs the US Megathread

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The South Falls
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:22 pm

Aureumterra wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
Yeah the Iranians are decades away from being able to hit the US with a nuke. Now hey do have a policy of Nuking Europe to retaliate for a US invasion.

Iran's nuclear weapons program circa 2020

The dictator was deadass one of the best movies I've ever watched
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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:48 pm

North German Realm wrote:
Heloin wrote:Bad man dead isn't the fucking problem. America potentially starting a war that will destroy another country in the middle east is.

So America should let Bad Man continue live and do bad things so it won't start a war?


False dichotomy. The choice isn't between assassination and doing nothing. One good reason for rejecting assassination as an instrument of national policy is that it tends to work both ways.
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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Tarsonis
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Posts: 27332
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:52 pm

https://thehill.com/policy/internationa ... qi-militia


Further attacks on Iranian backed militias
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Nantoraka
Diplomat
 
Posts: 640
Founded: Oct 19, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nantoraka » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:52 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
Nantoraka wrote:That's...quite the overreaction.

Wasn't the Syrian withdrawal supposed to start WW3?

Given how some people reacted to this (nukes, people?) I'm surprised it didn't lead up to the sun exploding

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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:52 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Bush was ridin' in trying to remove broccoli WMD's that didn't exist, and it doesn't look like Trump's going to go down the same path. I think that's because whatever Iran does, unless they pull a nuke out of their asses, will not be enough to start a war.

Because no one does. The White House has been pretty adamant that it doesn't want a war. They wanted to kill a terrorist who killed hundreds of US soldiers and was plotting to kill more. I'm sure Trump also wants to appear tough on terrorism.

Iran doesn't really want a war either. They just want to change the status quo so they can get back the grotesque nuclear deal that saved their economy from the Bush sanctions.

Nobody here actually wants a war. People need to stop being so hysterical.


Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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Northern Dependencies
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Founded: Jan 02, 2020
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Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:53 pm

US-SSR wrote:
North German Realm wrote:So America should let Bad Man continue live and do bad things so it won't start a war?


False dichotomy. The choice isn't between assassination and doing nothing. One good reason for rejecting assassination as an instrument of national policy is that it tends to work both ways.

There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of US soldiers. Only difference between him and Osama is that one held an official position in a military.

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Northern Dependencies
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Founded: Jan 02, 2020
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Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:54 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:Because no one does. The White House has been pretty adamant that it doesn't want a war. They wanted to kill a terrorist who killed hundreds of US soldiers and was plotting to kill more. I'm sure Trump also wants to appear tough on terrorism.

Iran doesn't really want a war either. They just want to change the status quo so they can get back the grotesque nuclear deal that saved their economy from the Bush sanctions.

Nobody here actually wants a war. People need to stop being so hysterical.


Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?

:lol:

If Iran's feeling suicidal enough to risk a direct confrontation with the US then be my guest.

They aren't as stupid as you think they are.

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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:54 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
False dichotomy. The choice isn't between assassination and doing nothing. One good reason for rejecting assassination as an instrument of national policy is that it tends to work both ways.

There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of US soldiers. Only difference between him and Osama is that one held an official position in a military.


"There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of Iranian soldiers." Understand now?
Last edited by US-SSR on Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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Tarsonis
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Posts: 27332
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:55 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
False dichotomy. The choice isn't between assassination and doing nothing. One good reason for rejecting assassination as an instrument of national policy is that it tends to work both ways.

There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of US soldiers. Only difference between him and Osama is that one held an official position in a military.



In foreign affairs though that makes all the difference in the world.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Northern Dependencies
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Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:56 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of US soldiers. Only difference between him and Osama is that one held an official position in a military.


"There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of Iranian soldiers." Understand now?

Nope. I'm not going to bend over to appease some terrorist shitstate. Kill our men and you'll deal with the consequences one day.

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Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:56 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:Because no one does. The White House has been pretty adamant that it doesn't want a war. They wanted to kill a terrorist who killed hundreds of US soldiers and was plotting to kill more. I'm sure Trump also wants to appear tough on terrorism.

Iran doesn't really want a war either. They just want to change the status quo so they can get back the grotesque nuclear deal that saved their economy from the Bush sanctions.

Nobody here actually wants a war. People need to stop being so hysterical.


Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?



They can replace him in seconds for all it matters. His replacement is still gonna be seventeen steps behind where was at the moment of his immolation.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Northern Dependencies
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Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:57 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:There is nothing wrong with killing someone who's murdered hundreds of US soldiers. Only difference between him and Osama is that one held an official position in a military.



In foreign affairs though that makes all the difference in the world.

When dealing with a terror state the only appropriate approach is to treat them as terrorists.

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Napkizemlja
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Posts: 1837
Founded: Apr 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Napkizemlja » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:57 pm

US-SSR wrote:
North German Realm wrote:So America should let Bad Man continue live and do bad things so it won't start a war?


False dichotomy. The choice isn't between assassination and doing nothing. One good reason for rejecting assassination as an instrument of national policy is that it tends to work both ways.

Yeah, Iran long ago embraced assassination. Assassination is a valid tool of the state, security, foreign relations etc.
Don't cry because it's coming to an end, smile because it happened.

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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:57 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?

:lol:

If Iran's feeling suicidal enough to risk a direct confrontation with the US then be my guest.

They aren't as stupid as you think they are.


If you come near an answer to my question feel free to post it. I'll repeat it for you: who do we assassinate once Iran resumes its attacks on US and allied interests? How many? For how long?
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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Greed and Death
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53383
Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:57 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:Why not both ?


:( I like Single Malts, Tuscany and Bordeux.


So you want me to tell my rep on the Iranian government to nuke Scotland France and Italy ?
"Trying to solve the healthcare problem by mandating people buy insurance is like trying to solve the homeless problem by mandating people buy a house."(paraphrase from debate with Hilary Clinton)
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Northern Dependencies
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Founded: Jan 02, 2020
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Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:59 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote: :lol:

If Iran's feeling suicidal enough to risk a direct confrontation with the US then be my guest.

They aren't as stupid as you think they are.


If you come near an answer to my question feel free to post it. I'll repeat it for you: who do we assassinate once Iran resumes its attacks on US and allied interests? How many? For how long?

Until they no longer pose a serious threat to US interests and stop murdering our soldiers.

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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:59 pm

Napkizemlja wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
False dichotomy. The choice isn't between assassination and doing nothing. One good reason for rejecting assassination as an instrument of national policy is that it tends to work both ways.

Yeah, Iran long ago embraced assassination. Assassination is a valid tool of the state, security, foreign relations etc.


So you're OK with Iran assassinating US generals, cabinet officials...presidents? It's a valid tool of the state after all.
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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Northern Dependencies
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Posts: 68
Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:00 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Napkizemlja wrote:Yeah, Iran long ago embraced assassination. Assassination is a valid tool of the state, security, foreign relations etc.


So you're OK with Iran assassinating US generals, cabinet officials...presidents? It's a valid tool of the state after all.

Were you okay with killing bin Laden?

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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:02 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
If you come near an answer to my question feel free to post it. I'll repeat it for you: who do we assassinate once Iran resumes its attacks on US and allied interests? How many? For how long?

Until they no longer pose a serious threat to US interests and stop murdering our soldiers.


How does a campaign of assassinations advance that goal? Even administration officials admit killing the last guy would have no affect on Iran's operational capabilities to inflict harm on US interests.
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:03 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:Because no one does. The White House has been pretty adamant that it doesn't want a war. They wanted to kill a terrorist who killed hundreds of US soldiers and was plotting to kill more. I'm sure Trump also wants to appear tough on terrorism.

Iran doesn't really want a war either. They just want to change the status quo so they can get back the grotesque nuclear deal that saved their economy from the Bush sanctions.

Nobody here actually wants a war. People need to stop being so hysterical.


Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?



Not for nothing, we’ll assassinate as many as it takes. It’s a very delicate situation but can be done. You have to consider the state of Iran. It’s government only remains in control of the country through oppressive measures. Most Iranian civilians are dissatisfied with the Iranian Government, and further their views of the US are largely benign. It’s the Regime that’s the issue for us, not the people. It’s a delicate situation but can be maneuvered tactfully, but that we can achieve our objectives without undoing the progress the Iranian people have made
Last edited by Tarsonis on Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

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Northern Dependencies
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Posts: 68
Founded: Jan 02, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Dependencies » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:03 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:Until they no longer pose a serious threat to US interests and stop murdering our soldiers.


How does a campaign of assassinations advance that goal? Even administration officials admit killing the last guy would have no affect on Iran's operational capabilities to inflict harm on US interests.

First of all, source.

Second of all, whoever they replace him with will be decades behind this man. They won't be as effective or as experienced of a leader.

User avatar
Tarsonis
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27332
Founded: Sep 20, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tarsonis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:05 pm

US-SSR wrote:
Northern Dependencies wrote:Until they no longer pose a serious threat to US interests and stop murdering our soldiers.


How does a campaign of assassinations advance that goal? Even administration officials admit killing the last guy would have no affect on Iran's operational capabilities to inflict harm on US interests.

Yeah that’s not what when the liberal press is saying

https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch ... 5999813996
NS Keyboard Warrior since 2005
Ecclesiastes 1:18 "For in much wisdom is much vexation, and those who increase knowledge increase sorrow"
Thucydides: “The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools.”
1 Corinthians 5:12 "What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Galatians 6:7 "Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow."
T. Stevens: "I don't hold with equality in all things, but I believe in equality under the Law."
James I of Aragon "Have you ever considered that our position is Idolatry to the Rabbi?"
Debating Christian Theology with Non-Christians pretty much anybody be like

User avatar
US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:05 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?



Not for nothing, we’ll assassinate as many as it takes. It’s a very delicate situation but can be done. You have to consider the state of Iran. It’s government only remains in control of the country through oppressive measures. Most Iranian civilians are dissatisfied with the Iranian Government, and further their views of the US are largely benign. It’s the Regime that’s the issue for us, not the people. It’s a delicate situation but can be maneuvered tactfully, but that we can achieve our objectives without undoing the progress the Iranian people have made


Would assassinating US leaders tend to divide or unite the US population behind its government? Why would Iran be different?
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

User avatar
Myrensis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5754
Founded: Oct 05, 2010
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Myrensis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:06 pm

Tarsonis wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
Once you start committing acts of war the choice of whether you want a war or not is no longer entirely in your hands. The opponent gets to move too. It took less than a day for Iran to replace their guy. Rest assured they will continue to attack the US and its allies interests in the Middle East. Who do we assassinate then? How many? For how long?



Not for nothing, we’ll assassinate as many as it takes. It’s a very delicate situation but can be done. You have to consider the state of Iran. It’s government only remains in control of the country through oppressive measures. Most Iranian civilians are dissatisfied with the Iranian Government, and further their views of the US are largely benign. It’s the Regime that’s the issue for us, not the people. It’s a delicate situation but can be maneuvered tactfully, but that we can achieve our objectives without undoing the progress the Iranian people have made


We'll be welcomed as liberators!...This time...I'm sure of it!

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US-SSR
Minister
 
Posts: 2313
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby US-SSR » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:07 pm

Northern Dependencies wrote:
US-SSR wrote:
How does a campaign of assassinations advance that goal? Even administration officials admit killing the last guy would have no affect on Iran's operational capabilities to inflict harm on US interests.

First of all, source.

Second of all, whoever they replace him with will be decades behind this man. They won't be as effective or as experienced of a leader.


Google is your friend. By all accounts Soleimani's deputy is not "decades behind" his mentor. Is Pence "decades behind" Trump? Why would Iran be different?
8:46

We're not going to control the pandemic!

It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

"The scraps of narcissism, the rotten remnants of conspiracy theories, the offal of sour grievance, the half-eaten bits of resentment flow by. They do not cohere. But they move in the same, insistent current of self, self, self."

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