Iran vs the US Megathread

[Tarsonis]

Eh Congress is responsible for giving the Presidency that power in the first place. While Congress does possess sole authority to declare war, the President also needs latitude to execute his role as commander and chief in the modern world. Article 1 made a lot more sense when it took 3 months to cross the Atlantic.

Article I still makes sense.

I didn’t say it didn’t. But when it was envisioned the pace of war was far slower. The military had months to react and mobilize while now they only have minutes.

Presidents can (and do) use military action to put the opposition in a difficult position ("Oppose me in war and you're helping the enemy") as well as to create situations in which the can claim triumphant positive accomplishments to boost their popularity and remain in power. The Framers worried about this possibility, and rightly so. That's why they gave the power to declare war to Congress, feeling that giving it to the President created too much opportunity for abuse.

Military forces may be able to deploy much faster on the world stage, but human behavior and relationships haven't really changed. We still need to restrain our Presidents in order to prevent them from becoming tyrants.

Sure, but the President also needs the latitude to be able to respond to the requirements of the modern battlefield, without having to call a joint session of Congress every time. Case in point, Soleimani had long been in the US crosshairs and they had intel that he was leaving the safety of Iran and entering Iraq. They had a limited time to act, so they went ahead with it and informed Congress after the fact which is within the bounds of the current law. If they had to wait for congress to pass a resolution they wouldn’t have been able to act. While you might think that would have been good in this particular instance there are other instances where it might not be.

[US-SSR]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

[US-SSR]

Why on earth would Iran accept a deal with the U.S. now? We can no longer negotiate with good faith, we've forfeited that possibility.

Now? No reason at all.

In ten years, after continued protracted pressure? Maybe.

And any deal we do get is not going to be as good as the deal Trump walked away from. Who knew international diplomacy was so much harder than running a Queens real estate development company into the ground with Daddy's inherited money?

[Paddy O Fernature]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

Thank you, I needed a good laugh.

[The East Marches II]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

*whew" I can safely believe things went well then. Thank you for insightful commentary as ever.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

For someone who worked in the State Dept. you sure seem to have an unrealistic view of things. I made a post earlier regarding how this will affect Yemen

Well, things seemed to have cool down. People don’t realize the magnitude of Soleimani’s death though. He’s thought to be the primary strategist for the Houthis in Yemen, in fact, the Houthi successes early on in the war, against all odds, can be attributed to him. The army march to Sana’a was an extremely risky strategy that only someone like Soleimani would’ve done, but it worked out in the end.

The loss of Soleimani means that the Houthis have to rely on other leaders who aren’t nearly as smart or risk-taking, not to mention their grip on Sana’a has been loosening over the last few months. Without the primary strategic mastermind, the Houthis likely have no definitive plan to take Aden and the remaining Hadi strongholds, and even if they do, they’re against all odds now, and don’t have someone like Soleimani to save them.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Hadi government launches a full on offensive to retake their land, all the way to Sana’a, and I don’t expect the Houthis to hold out for much longer with their primary strategist dead. This action may have turned the tide of the Yemeni war

[Infected Mushroom]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

I support Iran but I’m not sure America seems like it’s not in control.

I mean, it has the power to press a few buttons, and bomb anyone out instantly. No matter how rich, how fast, how powerful... the USA can pull out a metaphorical Death Note and tell you “hey your time is up.” This is a real life version of a Zeus Thunderbolt capability. I think half the Middle East right now is going...

“Oh dear, if we’re not careful, America is going to go Homelander on us.”

I think that a very stern reminder of America’s power has been sent. Rather than appear weak, America has once again demonstrated its ability to instantly eliminate threats at will. And no court on Earth can pass, let alone, enforce a sentence against the might of the United States. There’s not a whisper, let alone talk of doing anything... even though America literally confessed to murder. That is Power.

A few days ago an Iranian high ranker existed. Now he doesn’t. America didn’t even send people to get him, they just pressed a few buttons. I think that’s power that must be feared.

[US-SSR]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

*whew" I can safely believe things went well then. Thank you for insightful commentary as ever.

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

[US-SSR]

And so Iran has gained almost all its policy goals while the US has advanced none, and in fact stands in a weaker position in almost all respects than it did before the assassination. By responding in a restrained way, with targeted munitions that damaged military assets but not personnel, to the assassination Iran both looks like much the more reasonable party and demonstrates its ability to launch attacks against the US at will. In addition to taking an open shot at US assets it also gets out of the nuclear agreement more or less for free and can, and will, resume research, testing, enrichment and stockpiling. Far from a support, the US presence in Iraq has become a burden that government is less and less willing to bear: another Iranian goal achieved. They won't mount more attacks for the moment for the same reason you don't shoot at an opponent who's commiting suicide. If the pace of forcing the US out of the region flags, they can always pop off a few more missiles. Bonus, the anti-Iranian demonstrations in and outside the country that had the potential to threaten its standing in the region have been quelled.

Back in DC, Trump's typically shambolic performance this morning left him looking like someone begging to be left alone. The atmosphere in the White House leading up to this latest embarassment as reported in various media most resembled an organization just realizing it has climbed to the top of Mount Stupid. Our allies are making special efforts to let us know how idiotic the assassination was; in private or in background media interviews they are revealing they don't trust the word of our leaders. Putin is being welcomed in Syria and Turkey -- our NATO ally, for the moment. The Saudis and others have more reason to question the value of their relationship with the erratic, unpredictable US. And at least one Republican Senator, appalled at the amateurishness of today's briefing, will vote to limit the administration's warmaking authority.

With one ill-thought-out, impulsive, badly considered decision, the US has handed Iran an advantage it will be able to use for years. One nation and its leaders looks reasonable, comfortable with its position and power and capable of taking steps to defend its interests and those of its allies; that nation is not the United States of America.

I support Iran but I’m not sure America seems like it’s not in control.

I mean, it has the power to press a few buttons, and bomb anyone out instantly. No matter how rich, how fast, how powerful... the USA can pull out a metaphorical Death Note and tell you “hey your time is up.” This is a real life version of a Zeus Thunderbolt capability. I think half the Middle East right now is going...

“Oh dear, if we’re not careful, America is going to go Homelander on us.”

I think that a very stern reminder of America’s power has been sent. Rather than appear weak, America has once again demonstrated its ability to instantly eliminate threats at will. And no court on Earth can pass, let alone, enforce a sentence against the might of the United States. There’s not a whisper, let alone talk of doing anything... even though America literally confessed to murder. That is Power.

If the Iranians could have accomplished everything they have in the last week or so -- a free shot at US military assets, momentum toward removing the US presence in Iraq, an excuse to back farther away from the nuke deal plus a pause, if not an end, to anti-regime demostrations at home and abroad -- I'm not so sure they wouldn't have offed the guy themselves. Don't confuse force and power; the latter is the proper application of the former. For the moment the Iranians are acting like a skilful judoki, meeting US force with avoidance, allowing the US to overbalance itself to its own detriment and countering in the most sensitive and vulnerable spot. That, my friend, is power; not some missile launched from a drone.

[The East Marches II]

*whew" I can safely believe things went well then. Thank you for insightful commentary as ever.

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

Given how wrong your positions are as a norm, they are a good barometer for how things are going, for the wrong reasons. As for not engaging with facts, why don't you give us more apologia for the Obama drone strikes on Americans while decrying Trump a monster for striking a baddie. Let us expose the bankruptcy in your ideological position yet again.

[US-SSR]

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

Given how wrong your positions are as a norm, they are a good barometer for how things are going, for the wrong reasons. As for not engaging with facts, why don't you give us more apologia for the Obama drone strikes on Americans while decrying Trump a monster for striking a baddie. Let us expose the bankruptcy in your ideological position yet again.

Why don't you explain to us the difference between a member of a terrorist group and an official of a foreign government. Of course you might need to first stop your dancing around the latter's grave while ignoring the clear consequences of mindlessly making assassination an instrument of national policy.

[The East Marches II]

Given how wrong your positions are as a norm, they are a good barometer for how things are going, for the wrong reasons. As for not engaging with facts, why don't you give us more apologia for the Obama drone strikes on Americans while decrying Trump a monster for striking a baddie. Let us expose the bankruptcy in your ideological position yet again.

Why don't you explain to us the difference between a member of a terrorist group and an official of a foreign government.

They are not mutually exclusive. Infact, NATO used to keep people like that on hand just in case under Gladio. Why don't you explain the difference between Obama's baseball cards of drone death and Trump's usage of the system?

Edit: assassination has been in our tool kit since the 40s. If we want the drone war, it's been since the war on terror's mass rollout.

[Tarsonis]

*whew" I can safely believe things went well then. Thank you for insightful commentary as ever.

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider:

- Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.
- US has introduced new sanctions on Iran in the aftermath.



The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

[Paddy O Fernature]

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran is completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they did’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper.

The US how gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. The US has demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will, and Iran made the mistake of attack Iranian assets along with US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shia who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer.

Other facts to consider: Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.


The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

[Tarsonis]

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran is completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they did’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper.

The US how gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. The US has demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will, and Iran made the mistake of attack Iranian assets along with US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shia who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer.

Other facts to consider: Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.


The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

Well my spelling was shit, stupid iPhone

[The East Marches II]

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider: Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.


The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

Said it far better than I could, well done!

[Tarsonis]

I know we’re not supposed to drop memes that much, but this one keeps making me giggle

[Bombadil]

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider:

- Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.
- US has introduced new sanctions on Iran in the aftermath.



The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

Well it depends on what you think the goals are here. If it's to strike a telling blow against the US then sure, pretty abysmal failure but then I don't think that's the goal. The goal, as always with authoritarian regimes, is to shore up their support in the population and, in that regard, it was a phenomenal success.

What may be longer lasting is a renewed sense of anti-Americanism among ordinary people, said Sian Toosi, a senior analyst at the National Iranian American Council. “For years anti-Americanism has been a top-down phenomenon, but the Iranian people wanted to move past this. Trump has destroyed a lot of that sentiment, and the assassination of Suleimani will cement it as a bottom-up phenomenon again. This is going to be seen as something as great, if not greater, than the [CIA-sponsored] 1953 coup.”

“I expected a harsher revenge,” said a taxi driver in Tehran as a news bulletin blared from the radio. “Americans don’t know how strong we are. I’m shaking, hearing the news – I wish I could have been one of those soldiers who pushed the buttons for the strikes.”

He dismissed American claims that none of their soldiers had been harmed in the strikes. “Of course they wouldn’t announce it,” he said.

[Tarsonis]

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider:

- Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.
- US has introduced new sanctions on Iran in the aftermath.



The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

Well it depends on what you think the goals are here. If it's to strike a telling blow against the US then sure, pretty abysmal failure but then I don't think that's the goal. The goal, as always with authoritarian regimes, is to shore up their support in the population and, in that regard, it was a phenomenal success.

What may be longer lasting is a renewed sense of anti-Americanism among ordinary people, said Sian Toosi, a senior analyst at the National Iranian American Council. “For years anti-Americanism has been a top-down phenomenon, but the Iranian people wanted to move past this. Trump has destroyed a lot of that sentiment, and the assassination of Suleimani will cement it as a bottom-up phenomenon again. This is going to be seen as something as great, if not greater, than the [CIA-sponsored] 1953 coup.”

“I expected a harsher revenge,” said a taxi driver in Tehran as a news bulletin blared from the radio. “Americans don’t know how strong we are. I’m shaking, hearing the news – I wish I could have been one of those soldiers who pushed the buttons for the strikes.”

He dismissed American claims that none of their soldiers had been harmed in the strikes. “Of course they wouldn’t announce it,” he said.

While that does give me some insight about how the Iranians don’t understand how a democratic government actually functions, I’m more skeptical than Toosi. Just like how the US population was star spangled as all hell in the wake of 9/11, and a few months later back to business as usual, I suspect similar fashion to occur in Iran. It’s more a spike than an altered course. Further as has been demonstrated here as well as else where, the spike is largely over blown and very likely a piece of Iranian propaganda as well. Many young Iranians are either dumbfounded by the spike or suggesting the “mourners” are getting kick backs.

[US-SSR]

How nice it must be to live in a world where facts don't get in the way of blinkered ignorance.

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider:

- Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.
- US has introduced new sanctions on Iran in the aftermath.



The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

It's so easy to declare victory when you ascribe goals to your opponent that they never intended, isn't it? Those missiles were targeted precisely to destroy hangers and other infrastructure. Iran gave Iraq six hours' notice ahead of time. If they wanted to cause US casualties, they could have. Easily. And German and the UK? That's called damning with faint praise. Pro tip: try thinking things through before opining.

[Albrenia]

Did the Iranian missiles even do structural damage? I'm glad they didn't hurt anybody (that we know of) but I haven't heard if they just faceplanted into the sand or dirt or if they actually blew something up.

[Saiwania]

I'm all in for a war with Iran. I want it to happen, provided there isn't a regime change. Their military should get wrecked if possible, but their government left intact so as to not enable a power vacuum. I envision it like an Iran-Iraq war 2.0, but one where Iran loses. The US can attack from both directions from Iraq and Afghanistan's border, so that's even better. Iran can't defend two fronts as effectively, without splitting their materiel.

[Tarsonis]

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider:

- Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.
- US has introduced new sanctions on Iran in the aftermath.



The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

It's so easy to declare victory when you ascribe goals to your opponent that they never intended, isn't it? Those missiles were targeted precisely to destroy hangers and other infrastructure.

I didn’t realize you were privy to classified information, battle reports, and as well as trained in damage assessment. Especially since the intelligence report isn’t even completed yet. However the Chairman of the Joint chiefs says you’re wrong.

“ “I believe based on what I saw and what I know is that they were intended to cause structural damage, destroy vehicles and equipment and aircraft and to kill personnel,” Milley said. “That’s my own personal assessment.”

Even if you’re right though that they wanted to attack infrastructure and hangers they did a shit job of that as well.

“Esper said the missiles hit tents and a helicopter but did not cause major damage.”

Yeah they dented the hanger mucked up a black hawk and a few soldier’s underwear are a smoldering ruin. Well done Iran well done. (But you know, the fact that they targeted tents suggests they might have been trying to hit personnel after all.)
Further let’s consider the results. They fire 16 ballistic missiles. 11 hit at al-Assad causing minimal damage. 1 landed in an empty field in Irbil missing everything. And the other 4 disappeared into the æther.


The US launched 59 tomahawk missiles at Sharyat Airbase in 2017. You know how many hit their targets? 58 causing effective damage. Now THAT was an effective attack. This was supposed to be a haymaker likely to demonstrate the gains their ballistic missile program had made. What it showed us is how inept they are.

Iran gave Iraq six hours' notice ahead of time.

Good for them. The Pentagon is also reporting that it wasn’t much of a factor as the intelligence only let them know an attack was coming, not where. Which wasn’t much of a tip because we already fucking knew that in this thread. The US had already moved it’s assets to more secure locations. The scramble to the bunkers was in response to early warning systems, not the Iraqi intelligence.

If they wanted to cause US casualties, they could have. Easily.

That’s why the Iranian state initially released figures of 30 American Casualties, that even MSNBC reported, because they could easily cause American casualties, but were just going to target infrastructure to show how measured they were.

And German and the UK? That's called damning with faint praise.

That’s called bullshit.

Germany called the attack justified.
https://saraacarter.com/german-gov-says ... soleimani/

Boris Johnson says Soleimani had British blood on his hands

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51035602


Damning with faint praise? what a crock of shit.

Pro tip: try thinking things through before opining.

Amateur tip: take your lips off Iran’s ass before you open your mouth. Ali is likely to take a dump in it.


Main source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html

[Holy Tedalonia]

There is nothing fact based in your assessment, just your bias. Iran was completely embarrassed by their attack because it failed spectacularly. Despite early speculation,(which i myself partook in) there was no warning from the Iranians. What alerted us is the US’s missle tracking program based out of Cheyenne. Early warning notice sent alert to the bases where they had been running drills for weeks. Hardened bunkers protected personnel.

What was supposed to be a massive retaliatory strike was a compete whiff. So they didn’t demonstrate their ability to strike US targets at will, they demonstrated their inability to competently strike any god damned thing. And if the Ukrainian plane was a indeed a misfire by Iranian AA defense, their embarrassment will be even deeper. On of it the more they try to claim victory, the more ridiculous they look.

The US now gets to run the board, and the White House has even suggested Iran is reigning in its militias from engaging US assets. By killing such a high profile figure, The US succeed where Iran failed, and demonstrated that they actually can strike anybody at will. To pile it on, Iran made the mistake of attacking Iranian assets alongside US assets. So guess whose relationship they soured? The Iraqi parliament. The Shiite MPs who saw Iran as a likely ally, now see through the veneer. Iran cares as much about Iraqi Sovereignty as the US does, and the Iraqis know it.

Other facts to consider:

- Germany and the UK publicly backed the US while leaning on Iran.
- US has introduced new sanctions on Iran in the aftermath.



The idea that Iran came out ahead of this is so laughably divorced from reality, it’s staggering.

It's so easy to declare victory when you ascribe goals to your opponent that they never intended, isn't it? Those missiles were targeted precisely to destroy hangers and other infrastructure. Iran gave Iraq six hours' notice ahead of time. If they wanted to cause US casualties, they could have. Easily. And German and the UK? That's called damning with faint praise. Pro tip: try thinking things through before opining.

Answer me this, if the Iranians didn't want to cause casualties, then why didn't they give a early warning? I mean if this is a situation that can create essentially WW3, then you'd think they would give warning, as to prevent a undesired situation. If it wasn't for the US radar equipment warning US troops ahead of time, Iran could have caused potential Iraqi or US soldier deaths. There attack was reckless and stupid, as one death could have brought a war between them and iraq or them and the USA. The only saving grace is that they didn't directly attack a US base, but rather an Iraqi one (which also means they damaged more Iraqi equipment rather then US). The aftermath is just a attempt to save face and look tough. Stop acting like Iran has complete control of the situation and is playing 4D chess.

[The Republic of Fore]

So with the Trump admin backing down from further strikes I hate to say I told you so, but called it! Once again the cries of the end is ngih and we're totally going to war this time guys! Turned out to be nothing but fearmongering.