Iran vs the US Megathread

[Aureumterra]

The missile strike was the end of it, America seems to have avoided war for now, and Trump seems intent on avoiding war.

I’m glad Bolton was kicked out before this started

The only way it is going to escalate is if Iran launches another volley of missiles at American assets in Iraq. But I don't think they will, as Iran right now likely thinks that they have already saved face, so launching another volley would be pointless; unless of course they do intend to keep launching until they kill American soldiers, but I doubt it.

Which would be an act of war. The reason Iran couldn’t declare war after Soleimani died, even if they wanted to, was because it would be political suicide. For America, this isn’t the case and Iran knows that, which is why I assume they intentionally hit places with few American soldiers and missed their main targets on purpose

[The New California Republic]

The only way it is going to escalate is if Iran launches another volley of missiles at American assets in Iraq. But I don't think they will, as Iran right now likely thinks that they have already saved face, so launching another volley would be pointless; unless of course they do intend to keep launching until they kill American soldiers, but I doubt it.

Which would be an act of war. The reason Iran couldn’t declare war after Soleimani died, even if they wanted to, was because it would be political suicide. For America, this isn’t the case and Iran knows that, which is why I assume they intentionally hit places with few American soldiers and missed their main targets on purpose

Soviet-derived ballistic missiles tend to have a fairly high failure rate, and piss-poor accuracy; so that could account for the number of missiles in this attack that missed or outright failed to explode.

[Alien Space Bats]

They attacked the US Embassy, once that happened, you had 2 options

1. Don’t respond, set a precedent that you will abandon your embassies and make a laughingstock out of yourself, as if Benghazi wasn’t bad enough

2. Take out the organizers, show the world that America means business

<sigh>

They tried to break into the embassy, got into the outer grounds, and then got no further. No one was killed or injured, no one was taken hostage, and at most there was some minor damage to the physical plant. Big deal.

Indeed, to call what happened an "attack" on our embassy in Baghdad is charitable, to say the least. It was basically a street protest that turned into a riot. In response to a bombing that killed 25 Shi'ite militiamen (itself in response to a rocket attack that killed a single American contractor), it was not only not enough of an issue to merit a response, it should have been expected (and factored in) as part of the cost of the attack on the Shi'ite militia outfit. The appropriate thing to do would have been to simply ignore it and let it peter out. You don't have to parade your national testosterone levels every time somebody out there does something that offends you. It's not your world to control.

As for killing Soleimani, that was just flat-out stupid. Did anybody think that Iran could or would simply take that blow and swallow it without raising a ruckus?

---

As for Sen. Elizabeth Warren's suggestion that the killing of Soleimani was a case of "wag the dog", I doubt it. Trump didn't like the way the Fox audience was responding to the embassy protests and wanted to do something that would make his base love him even more. Killing Soleimani filled the bill. I doubt he even spent a second considering the consequences.

[Ifreann]

Do you really believe that this forever war isn't a quagmire because Americans aren't dying that often? Like, is that what you think a quagmire is?

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Sure, you can continue wasting lives indefinitely. You can sit in this quagmire until the world ends around you.


You argued that the US should have been killing more people, not me. Or did you mean something else by "less soft"?


My point is that in twenty years you have not accomplished anything by the death of any general, leader, ruler, or specific individual, and this should be obvious by the very fact that you've been fighting for twenty years, so it is silly to believe that Trump killing Soleimani was some great achievement. Your wars are no closer to ending today than they were a week ago.

I can only assume that you completely missed this point, because your response that Americans aren't dying that often may as well have been about your favourite flavour of ice cream for all the relevance it has.

Do you have a point? Other than this one move does not magically win?
The problem nobody claimed it would.

The point I was making was entirely germane to the conversation I was having before you showed up and started telling me that doing war forever is good, actually.

Yes it is going to be a game of whack a mole that will keep going on.

The point is not to “win” as much to just prevent any group from becoming too strong.

Haha, are you actually arguing in favour of America being at war literally forever? Well shit, that sure is a take and a half. I guess there's no need for an exit strategy if you plan to never exit.

[Torrocca]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

[Alien Space Bats]

And Congress is clutching its pearls

Congress needs to do more than clutch its pearls. Congress needs to reassert its Article I authority to decide when and if we go to war, and with whom. Presidents have usurped far too much of Congress' power over the years, and we really need to put that power back where it belongs.

[Tobleste]

And Congress is clutching its pearls

Congress needs to do more than clutch its pearls. Congress needs to reassert its Article I authority to decide when and if we go to war, and with whom. Presidents have usurped far too much of Congress' power over the years, and we really need to put that power back where it belongs.

True but as Congress includes members of both parties, Congress will be about 40% politicians who prefer the president of the people running Congress itself.

Republicans blocking impeachment is one example.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

He’s sad Soleimani died

Also Twitter

[Tarsonis]

And Congress is clutching its pearls

Congress needs to do more than clutch its pearls. Congress needs to reassert its Article I authority to decide when and if we go to war, and with whom. Presidents have usurped far too much of Congress' power over the years, and we really need to put that power back where it belongs.

Eh Congress is responsible for giving the Presidency that power in the first place. While Congress does possess sole authority to declare war, the President also needs latitude to execute his role as commander and chief in the modern world. Article 1 made a lot more sense when it took 3 months to cross the Atlantic.

[Tobleste]

Part of me is glad that Trump is handling this as opposed to another Republican. Most of them share his brutal foreign policy goals and most are even more aggressive and trump is so obnoxious that few European countries, if any, will support him. That means America and Iran will be stuck with each other if they start a war which is exactly how it should be.

[Gormwood]

And Congress is clutching its pearls

Congress needs to do more than clutch its pearls. Congress needs to reassert its Article I authority to decide when and if we go to war, and with whom. Presidents have usurped far too much of Congress' power over the years, and we really need to put that power back where it belongs.

You'd think they'd have been more than happy to when Obama tried to use it.

[Alien Space Bats]

Iran has miscalculated here. If they expected western sympathy and support to hold out in the aftermath of an actual attack by Iran, even on US military bases, they were almost certainly mistaken.

I was telling my wife that the smart way for Iran to respond would have been to wait until Trump returned to Washington and then fire-bomb Mar-a-Lago. It would drive Trump insane while leaving Congress utterly disinclined to back him up.

[Gormwood]

Iran has miscalculated here. If they expected western sympathy and support to hold out in the aftermath of an actual attack by Iran, even on US military bases, they were almost certainly mistaken.

I was telling my wife that the smart way for Iran to respond would have been to wait until Trump returned to Washington and then fire-bomb Mar-a-Lago. It would drive Trump insane while leaving Congress utterly disinclined to back him up.

The popping noises would be all the bedbugs burning up.

[Tarsonis]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

Had Soleimani not funded and smuggled weapons to Iraqi insurgents. Had his Shia militia proxies not engaged US forces, he’d still be alive.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Part of me is glad that Trump is handling this as opposed to another Republican. Most of them share his brutal foreign policy goals and most are even more aggressive and trump is so obnoxious that few European countries, if any, will support him. That means America and Iran will be stuck with each other if they start a war which is exactly how it should be.

Trump is anti-war, the main thing is that he got rid of the neocons and warhawks in his administration a while ago. Again, I really don’t want to imagine what would be happening right now had Bolton still been there

[Aureumterra]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

Since when is killing Soleimani "destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives?" You are aware that the guy in the tweet you linked was sad because of Soleimani’s death right?

Or do you actually like Soleimani?

[Tobleste]

Part of me is glad that Trump is handling this as opposed to another Republican. Most of them share his brutal foreign policy goals and most are even more aggressive and trump is so obnoxious that few European countries, if any, will support him. That means America and Iran will be stuck with each other if they start a war which is exactly how it should be.

Trump is anti-war, the main thing is that he got rid of the neocons and warhawks in his administration a while ago. Again, I really don’t want to imagine what would be happening right now had Bolton still been there

Is he anti war? He says a lot of things.

Afaik, Pompeo and Pence both recommended that he tale out Sulemaini so they're not all gone.

[Alien Space Bats]

A plane in Iran crashed under suspect circumstances.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/08/boeing- ... eport.html

It's a 737. Crashing on takeoff hardly constitutes suspicious circumstances.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Trump is anti-war, the main thing is that he got rid of the neocons and warhawks in his administration a while ago. Again, I really don’t want to imagine what would be happening right now had Bolton still been there

Is he anti war? He says a lot of things.

He’s a paleocon, it was his whole thing during the 2016 primaries. While I think he’s incompetent, he did bring the Bush dynasty down

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

Since when is killing Soleimani "destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives?" You are aware that the guy in the tweet you linked was sad because of Soleimani’s death right?

Or do you actually like Soleimani?

Reminder that people protesting Soleimani’s death called him a "fight for the oppressed"

[Aureumterra]

I don’t know what’s more hilarious, the fact that Richard Spencer is freaking out at Trump or that Richard Spencer and Ilhan Omar now agree on some issues

[Fartsniffage]

Well making them know we just laughed at it is a response.
The response need not be kinetic necessarily.

A spicy meme might do, but we need them to know, otherwise they will just do it some more.

I'm thinking a good response might be to point at the missile attack and say, "This is why we want a new agreement curtailing Iran's ballistic missile program," and then to push for sanctions aimed at pressuring Iran into accepting limits on missile development. That would turn what Iran has done into a political win and make the Administration look a little less petulant for having scrapped the nuclear deal to begin with.

Fucking ASB!!!!

*We're not worthy. We're not worthy. We're not worthy.*

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

Yeah, that Soleimani was a real champion for peace what with his funding of extreme Shi'ite terrorist organizations across the MidEast that have been destabilizing the region for decades at the behest of a theocratic dictatorship that tortures and murders dissenters, treats women like property, and throws gays off buildings.

His loss is clearly a tragedy.

[Diarcesia]

I'm thinking a good response might be to point at the missile attack and say, "This is why we want a new agreement curtailing Iran's ballistic missile program," and then to push for sanctions aimed at pressuring Iran into accepting limits on missile development. That would turn what Iran has done into a political win and make the Administration look a little less petulant for having scrapped the nuclear deal to begin with.

Fucking ASB!!!!

*We're not worthy. We're not worthy. We're not worthy.*

Last I checked, my orbital bats doesn't have time travel technology.

On a serious note: That's a good way of making the most out of a bad situation. But Trump being Trump. Gosh, it's really a freaking diplomatic Russian Roulette (or Wheel of Fortune if you prefer that).

[Paddy O Fernature]

I'm getting really fucking tired of being forced to see countless innocent people forced to live in constant terror of the NATO war machine rearing its ugly, monstrous head and destroying their homes, killing their families, and devastating their lives. It's absolutely fucking pathetic beyond description seeing people treat this shit like a Goddamned game, here and elsewhere.

Yeah, that Soleimani was a real champion for peace what with his funding of extreme Shi'ite terrorist organizations across the MidEast that have been destabilizing the region for decades at the behest of a theocratic dictatorship that tortures and murders dissenters, treats women like property, and throws gays off buildings.

His loss is clearly a tragedy.

The only tragedy here was the innocents that ended up getting trampled to death at this scumbags funeral. Soleimani getting yeeted by a Predator Drone, that was Karma pure and simple.