2020 Taiwanese Election

[Shrillland]

ew, the Evangelion cosplayer won her seat. Standing against the NPP (the party that held the seat) candidate and almost losing to the KMT one.

Hope she loses next time, then.

NPP? Did you mean DPP?

No, he means NPP. In New Taipei City 12, Lai Pin-Yu of the DPP did indeed take the seat from NPP's Huang Kuo-Chang, and she is indeed an Evangelion and Sailor Moon cosplayer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lai_Pin-yu

[Catburg]

You’re late to the party, Gauth. IM’s already here praising authority and order and China over messy democracy and Taiwan apparently.

And to think a few decades ago, Taiwan was still authoritarian but went on the path of democratizing following Japan and South Korea.

Japan was already a democracy before WWII with universal male suffrage above 25.

[Novus America]

How come KMT is pro-Beijing? I thought they opposed the CCP (considering they fought a civil war with them)?

Unfortunately a combination of PRC money and the BS people believed in the 90s about how the PRC would reform into a more free country corrupted the KMT.
They were not the only ones to fall for this.

Look at how pretty much every Western country did the same stupidity.

Hopefully this defeat will shock the KMT (and others both inside and outside Taiwan) into realizing it is not the 90s anymore.

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

NPP? Did you mean DPP?

No, he means NPP. In New Taipei City 12, Lai Pin-Yu of the DPP did indeed take the seat from NPP's Huang Kuo-Chang, and she is indeed an Evangelion and Sailor Moon cosplayer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lai_Pin-yu

Ah, I see. Sorry.

[Nouveau Yathrib]

ew, the Evangelion cosplayer won her seat. Standing against the NPP (the party that held the seat) candidate and almost losing to the KMT one.

Hope she loses next time, then.

Politics and ideology aside, Lai Pin-yu's Asuka Langley Soryu ain't got nothing on Hsu Shu-hua's Wonder Woman. Or any of her other outfits, for that matter. (Don't worry, it's PG).

https://nicchiban.nichegamer.com/2019/1 ... ons-asuka/
https://www.quora.com/Who-is-the-sexies ... min-Chen-1

[Thermodolia]

How come KMT is pro-Beijing? I thought they opposed the CCP (considering they fought a civil war with them)?

Unfortunately a combination of PRC money and the BS people believed in the 90s about how the PRC would reform into a more free country corrupted the KMT.
They were not the only ones to fall for this.

Look at how pretty much every Western country did the same stupidity.

Hopefully this defeat will shock the KMT (and others both inside and outside Taiwan) into realizing it is not the 90s anymore.

I’m hoping that Taiwan will declare independence from the ROC

[Shrillland]

Unfortunately a combination of PRC money and the BS people believed in the 90s about how the PRC would reform into a more free country corrupted the KMT.
They were not the only ones to fall for this.

Look at how pretty much every Western country did the same stupidity.

Hopefully this defeat will shock the KMT (and others both inside and outside Taiwan) into realizing it is not the 90s anymore.

I’m hoping that Taiwan will declare independence from the ROC

They likely won't. The PRC would just cross the strait and squash them like a bug and trigger WW3 in the process.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

I’m hoping that Taiwan will declare independence from the ROC

They likely won't. The PRC would just cross the strait and squash them like a bug and trigger WW3 in the process.

They would probably have to nuke the whole island to oblivion, as the Taiwanese would resist a PRC invasion until every one of them is killed off. After all, a Taiwan under the PRC's jackboot would completely destroy their very heart and soul, something which cannot happen.

[Novus America]

I’m hoping that Taiwan will declare independence from the ROC

They likely won't. The PRC would just cross the strait and squash them like a bug and trigger WW3 in the process.

I doubt that. I do not think the PRC has the balls to try it. I doubt they want Taiwan to not declare independence that much.

Given the catastrophic damage such an blatantly Imperial expedition would cause to their economy and image I doubt they would. Their “rise” relies entirely on other countries not viewing them as enough a threat.

[Bienenhalde]

They likely won't. The PRC would just cross the strait and squash them like a bug and trigger WW3 in the process.

I doubt that. I do not think the PRC has the balls to try it. I doubt they want Taiwan to not declare independence that much.

Given the catastrophic damage such an blatantly Imperial expedition would cause to their economy and image I doubt they would. Their “rise” relies entirely on other countries not viewing them as enough a threat.

But if the Communist government isn't aggressively nationalistic enough, wouldn't that damage their legitimacy at home as the standard-bearers of "anti-imperialism"?

[Novus America]

I doubt that. I do not think the PRC has the balls to try it. I doubt they want Taiwan to not declare independence that much.

Given the catastrophic damage such an blatantly Imperial expedition would cause to their economy and image I doubt they would. Their “rise” relies entirely on other countries not viewing them as enough a threat.

But if the Communist government isn't aggressively nationalistic enough, wouldn't that damage their legitimacy at home as the standard-bearers of "anti-imperialism"?

Possibly but honestly I think more people at home care about preserving their material conditions more than embarking on imperial adventures.

[Tuthina]

They likely won't. The PRC would just cross the strait and squash them like a bug and trigger WW3 in the process.

I doubt that. I do not think the PRC has the balls to try it. I doubt they want Taiwan to not declare independence that much.

Given the catastrophic damage such an blatantly Imperial expedition would cause to their economy and image I doubt they would. Their “rise” relies entirely on other countries not viewing them as enough a threat.

Perhaps, but at the same time it is understandable that most Taiwanese don't feel like gambling on that, considering what would happen if they bet wrong. Still, "declaring indepdenced" (e.g. changing the official name of the country, its declared territory etc.) require a supermajority in the legislature since it requires changing their constitution, and currently the pan-blue camp still holds enough seats to prevent that, so it's a moot point for now.

[Novus America]

I doubt that. I do not think the PRC has the balls to try it. I doubt they want Taiwan to not declare independence that much.

Given the catastrophic damage such an blatantly Imperial expedition would cause to their economy and image I doubt they would. Their “rise” relies entirely on other countries not viewing them as enough a threat.

Perhaps, but at the same time it is understandable that most Taiwanese don't feel like gambling on that, considering what would happen if they bet wrong. Still, "declaring indepdenced" (e.g. changing the official name of the country, its declared territory etc.) require a supermajority in the legislature since it requires changing their constitution, and currently the pan-blue camp still holds enough seats to prevent that, so it's a moot point for now.

I agree. It certainly would be a gamble, and it is not clear what it would gain.

Plus as you point out there is insufficient public and political support to makes such a drastic change, at this time.

I do think the US should however extend full diplomatic recognition to the ROC.

[Pasong Tirad]

Perhaps, but at the same time it is understandable that most Taiwanese don't feel like gambling on that, considering what would happen if they bet wrong. Still, "declaring indepdenced" (e.g. changing the official name of the country, its declared territory etc.) require a supermajority in the legislature since it requires changing their constitution, and currently the pan-blue camp still holds enough seats to prevent that, so it's a moot point for now.

I agree. It certainly would be a gamble, and it is not clear what it would gain.

Plus as you point out there is insufficient public and political support to makes such a drastic change, at this time.

I do think the US should however extend full diplomatic recognition to the ROC.

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

[Greater Persian State]

I support the island of Taiwan being an independent nation that rejects the villains ruling the mainland.


However, I still believe it should exist as a Republic of China, and I think Sun Yat Sen's memory and vision for society is quite important.

[Novus America]

I agree. It certainly would be a gamble, and it is not clear what it would gain.

Plus as you point out there is insufficient public and political support to makes such a drastic change, at this time.

I do think the US should however extend full diplomatic recognition to the ROC.

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

Exactly. And what can the PRC do about it? Nothing except bitch and moan.

[Bienenhalde]

I agree. It certainly would be a gamble, and it is not clear what it would gain.

Plus as you point out there is insufficient public and political support to makes such a drastic change, at this time.

I do think the US should however extend full diplomatic recognition to the ROC.

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

That would imply the commie bandits on the mainland are a legitimate government. I do not want to grant them that concession.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

That would imply the commie bandits on the mainland are a legitimate government. I do not want to grant them that concession.

Solution 2: Declare the mainland to be a regnum barbarorum. Recognise Taiwan as its own state.

[Pasong Tirad]

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

That would imply the commie bandits on the mainland are a legitimate government. I do not want to grant them that concession.

Your mindset is stuck in the Cold War. Any notion of a Republic of China conquering Beijing is a fantasy and it needs to end. Taiwan doesn't even want to be called the RoC anymore, what the hell makes you think they can somehow topple the PRC? It's nothing but a fantasy that plays into the CCP-driven One China policy. There is only one China and it's tne People's Republic of China, and Taiwan does not see itself as an integral part of that nation and all they want is recognition for that.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

While at face value, a Kuomintang loss seems bad for China and good for Taiwan, let’s analyze it for a second

The PRC recognizes Taiwan as a core part of their territory. The government of Taiwan, for now, recognizes all of what the PRC has as their territory, they both signed the One China Policy, which reinforces the mutual agreement that there is only one China, just not specifying which government rules it. Now say the current government wants to promote Taiwanese independence, that’s a huge problem for many reasons.

The only reason China doesn’t attack Taiwan directly is because it is recognized as a part of China. If Taiwan were to declare independence, the reaction would be the same as if the Sichuan Province were to declare independence, the Chinese military would have all the justification they need to invade and "retake" Taiwan, since in their eyes, it would be an integral part of China trying to break away and form their own country.

Furthermore, as long as the RoC maintains a claim to the Chinese mainland, in the case of a PRC government collapse, which could well be possible due to the aftereffects of the one-child policy, they have valid justification to march into Beijing and set up their government there. The minute Roc lifts its claim on China, they basically lose all credibility as an adversary of China

[Novus America]

While at face value, a Kuomintang loss seems bad for China and good for Taiwan, let’s analyze it for a second

The PRC recognizes Taiwan as a core part of their territory. The government of Taiwan, for now, recognizes all of what the PRC has as their territory, they both signed the One China Policy, which reinforces the mutual agreement that there is only one China, just not specifying which government rules it. Now say the current government wants to promote Taiwanese independence, that’s a huge problem for many reasons.

The only reason China doesn’t attack Taiwan directly is because it is recognized as a part of China. If Taiwan were to declare independence, the reaction would be the same as if the Sichuan Province were to declare independence, the Chinese military would have all the justification they need to invade and "retake" Taiwan, since in their eyes, it would be an integral part of China trying to break away and form their own country.

Furthermore, as long as the RoC maintains a claim to the Chinese mainland, in the case of a PRC government collapse, which could well be possible due to the aftereffects of the one-child policy, they have valid justification to march into Beijing and set up their government there. The minute Roc lifts its claim on China, they basically lose all credibility as an adversary of China

Actually there are many other reasons the PRC does not attack Taiwan which would not change if it declared independence. Namely that the PRC might fail, would likely suffer horrible casualties, would face massive sanctions and economic damages, and the US might intervene to defend Taiwan.

But the point is moot because the DPP will not and cannot declare independence anyways.

The main benefit of the KMT losing is it will hopefully get them to kick out the PRC stooges and moronic 90s views and reform to being a party worth supporting.

[Bienenhalde]

That would imply the commie bandits on the mainland are a legitimate government. I do not want to grant them that concession.

Your mindset is stuck in the Cold War. Any notion of a Republic of China conquering Beijing is a fantasy and it needs to end. Taiwan doesn't even want to be called the RoC anymore, what the hell makes you think they can somehow topple the PRC? It's nothing but a fantasy that plays into the CCP-driven One China policy. There is only one China and it's tne People's Republic of China, and Taiwan does not see itself as an integral part of that nation and all they want is recognition for that.

The Cold War never should have ended. We need a new Cold War against the PRC. Western politicians need to stop giving into the oppressive communist regime for the sake of economic growth begin imposing sanctions and embargoes against them instead. Besides, society in Taiwan is clearly divided on whether or not they see themselves as Chinese. If there was an overwhelming consensus against Chinese nationalism in Taiwan, the Pan-Blue coalition would not be such an important political force.

[Novus America]

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

That would imply the commie bandits on the mainland are a legitimate government. I do not want to grant them that concession.

While I understand that concern, they are too powerful to ignore. For now at least a Two China Policy is best, we recognize both exist, and recognize ownership of the mainland is disputed.

Later then after we have weakened the PRC enough via sanctions and the like we can consider dropping recognition of the PRC.

But recognizing the ROC is something we could and should do today.

[Tuthina]

While at face value, a Kuomintang loss seems bad for China and good for Taiwan, let’s analyze it for a second

The PRC recognizes Taiwan as a core part of their territory. The government of Taiwan, for now, recognizes all of what the PRC has as their territory, they both signed the One China Policy, which reinforces the mutual agreement that there is only one China, just not specifying which government rules it. Now say the current government wants to promote Taiwanese independence, that’s a huge problem for many reasons.

The only reason China doesn’t attack Taiwan directly is because it is recognized as a part of China. If Taiwan were to declare independence, the reaction would be the same as if the Sichuan Province were to declare independence, the Chinese military would have all the justification they need to invade and "retake" Taiwan, since in their eyes, it would be an integral part of China trying to break away and form their own country.

Furthermore, as long as the RoC maintains a claim to the Chinese mainland, in the case of a PRC government collapse, which could well be possible due to the aftereffects of the one-child policy, they have valid justification to march into Beijing and set up their government there. The minute Roc lifts its claim on China, they basically lose all credibility as an adversary of China

Actually there are many other reasons the PRC does not attack Taiwan which would not change if it declared independence. Namely that the PRC might fail, would likely suffer horrible casualties, would face massive sanctions and economic damages, and the US might intervene to defend Taiwan.

But the point is moot because the DPP will not and cannot declare independence anyways.

The main benefit of the KMT losing is it will hopefully get them to kick out the PRC stooges and moronic 90s views and reform to being a party worth supporting.

That, of course, assumes that PRC is a rational actor that sees its own continued existence to be paramount which, when it comes to core ideologies like pan-Chinese nationalism, is not exactly a given. While it is true that a hypothetical (renewal of) war between PRC and Taiwan will ultimately lead to PRC's defeat and subsequent collapse, it is also likely that PRC see it as a catch-22, as allowing Taiwan to break away (de jure, as opposed to de facto which is the current state) might mean a fatal blow to CCP's pan-Chinese nationalism which, after its economic liberalisation, is arguably the only remaining core ideological foundation, the collapse of which might cause the people to overthrow it. As such, PRC might see itself compelled to start such unwinnable war, and even if PRC will eventually lost, Taiwan will most likely be dragged down with it, and can be a reason why people lean towards a more moderate status quo ambiguity for now.

It should. Literally just say fuck it there are two Chinas now.

That would imply the commie bandits on the mainland are a legitimate government. I do not want to grant them that concession.

The legitimacy of PRC is more dependent on other countries recognising it at all.

[Greater Persian State]

This relies on the DPP actually declaring a Republic of Taiwan


That won't happen, Tsai doesn't support it