Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[The New California Republic]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

From the article:

The archdeacon said he spoke to the priest who baptized the newborn and he said the baby had cried during and after immersion, indicating that his vital signs were food.

Ummm...what?

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

IIRC it is not.

[Kowani]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

From the article:

The archdeacon said he spoke to the priest who baptized the newborn and he said the baby had cried during and after immersion, indicating that his vital signs were food.

Ummm...what?

typo, probably.
F & G keys are right next to each other

[Punished UMN]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

No, it sounds like the priest didn't conduct the baptism correctly. For the baptism of infants, the police is supposed to hold the infant's breath by closing the nasal passages and covering the mouth during immersion, uncovering when the infant emerges, and repeating the process for each of the three immersions. This sounds like the kind of thing that never happens, regardless, the Church actually does allow other methods of immersion for baptism if the priest or parents feel that traditional methods of immersion might carry health risks.

[Luminesa]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

No, it sounds like the priest didn't conduct the baptism correctly. For the baptism of infants, the police is supposed to hold the infant's breath by closing the nasal passages and covering the mouth during immersion, uncovering when the infant emerges, and repeating the process for each of the three immersions. This sounds like the kind of thing that never happens, regardless, the Church actually does allow other methods of immersion for baptism if the priest or parents feel that traditional methods of immersion might carry health risks.

Yeah, Catholics just pour the shell or the cup of water over the baby's forehead.

[Kowani]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

No, it sounds like the priest didn't conduct the baptism correctly. For the baptism of infants, the police is supposed to hold the infant's breath by closing the nasal passages and covering the mouth during immersion, uncovering when the infant emerges, and repeating the process for each of the three immersions. This sounds like the kind of thing that never happens, regardless, the Church actually does allow other methods of immersion for baptism if the priest or parents feel that traditional methods of immersion might carry health risks.

that is...safer
and so much better

[The New California Republic]

From the article:

The archdeacon said he spoke to the priest who baptized the newborn and he said the baby had cried during and after immersion, indicating that his vital signs were food.

Ummm...what?

typo, probably.
F & G keys are right next to each other

But regardless, how would a priest know that the baby's vital signs were good? Was he checking the pulse etc? Crying alone is no indication that a person's vital signs are good, and it's possible to cry even when one's organs are failing to function. Idiot priest.

[Salus Maior]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

..."Several" times does not sound right.

What usually happens in Orthodox baptisms is that the baby would be swooshed through water three times (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and only for a very short amount of time. Most of the time the baby sits in the baptismal and the priest just pours water over the baby's head.

[Punished UMN]

No, it sounds like the priest didn't conduct the baptism correctly. For the baptism of infants, the police is supposed to hold the infant's breath by closing the nasal passages and covering the mouth during immersion, uncovering when the infant emerges, and repeating the process for each of the three immersions. This sounds like the kind of thing that never happens, regardless, the Church actually does allow other methods of immersion for baptism if the priest or parents feel that traditional methods of immersion might carry health risks.

Yeah, Catholics just pour the shell or the cup of water over the baby's forehead.

That's not what we do and it isn't allowed. Our alternative method is to hold the infant on their back, dip them about halfway into the water, and then have a deacon, assistant, etc. assist in total immersion. The method gives the priest and assistants more control over the duration of immersion and of breathing.

[Salus Maior]

Yeah, Catholics just pour the shell or the cup of water over the baby's forehead.

That's not what we do and it isn't allowed. Our alternative method is to hold the infant on their back, dip them about halfway into the water, and then have a deacon, assistant, etc. assist in total immersion. The method gives the priest and assistants more control over the duration of immersion and of breathing.

https://youtu.be/QtstEKjDjzE?t=184

It looks like that's sort of what they're doing here, though.

[Punished UMN]

No, it sounds like the priest didn't conduct the baptism correctly. For the baptism of infants, the police is supposed to hold the infant's breath by closing the nasal passages and covering the mouth during immersion, uncovering when the infant emerges, and repeating the process for each of the three immersions. This sounds like the kind of thing that never happens, regardless, the Church actually does allow other methods of immersion for baptism if the priest or parents feel that traditional methods of immersion might carry health risks.

that is...safer
and so much better

Yeah, we've been doing it for 2000 years, the method has been perfected. What I'm guessing happened here is that the priest was probably old and infirm to the point that he was somehow physically unable to do the above method, which has happened one or two other times that I know of, all of them in foreign countries. There have been more instances of baptism being performed in an unsafe manner that harms children (there was a big incident in Georgia a few years ago that was all over international media), but usually when that happens, the result is a pretty swift and harsh response on the priest by the episcopacy (the priest in Georgia I just mentioned IIRC was defrocked almost immediately).

[Punished UMN]

That's not what we do and it isn't allowed. Our alternative method is to hold the infant on their back, dip them about halfway into the water, and then have a deacon, assistant, etc. assist in total immersion. The method gives the priest and assistants more control over the duration of immersion and of breathing.

https://youtu.be/QtstEKjDjzE?t=184

It looks like that's sort of what they're doing here, though.

There were a few cuts there. Rubrics vary and it's something that does happen, but it's not the way it's supposed to be done. The rubrics are that total immersion is necessary for baptism, but some priests don't feel comfortable doing that and so they interpret this liberally to mean that the rubrics don't specify that the total immersion has to happen at the same time, and that as long as the entire body is covered in water by the process, even if not all at the same time, it is valid.

[Kowani]

Baby dies after bad baptism practices in Romania


...is that
a common thing???

It's not
right??

..."Several" times does not sound right.

What usually happens in Orthodox baptisms is that the baby would be swooshed through water three times (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and only for a very short amount of time. Most of the time the baby sits in the baptismal and the priest just pours water over the baby's head.

I see...

[Salus Maior]

..."Several" times does not sound right.

What usually happens in Orthodox baptisms is that the baby would be swooshed through water three times (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and only for a very short amount of time. Most of the time the baby sits in the baptismal and the priest just pours water over the baby's head.

I see...

I'd go more with UMN's explanation than mine, though. He knows more about Orthodox ritual than I do.

I'm all Latin and stuff.

[Kowani]

I see...

I'd go more with UMN's explanation than mine, though. He knows more about Orthodox ritual than I do.

I'm all Latin and stuff.

But latin is good tho

[Luminesa]

Yeah, Catholics just pour the shell or the cup of water over the baby's forehead.

That's not what we do and it isn't allowed. Our alternative method is to hold the infant on their back, dip them about halfway into the water, and then have a deacon, assistant, etc. assist in total immersion. The method gives the priest and assistants more control over the duration of immersion and of breathing.

I see. I didn't know it worked like that for Orthodox.

[Punished UMN]

..."Several" times does not sound right.

What usually happens in Orthodox baptisms is that the baby would be swooshed through water three times (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and only for a very short amount of time. Most of the time the baby sits in the baptismal and the priest just pours water over the baby's head.

I see...

I'm trying to find a video, but most of the infant baptisms I've seen, the priest uses a font that is lengthwise, holds the baby in the way that a parent would cradle them, covers the nose and mouth, and then uses and exaggerated 'rocking' motion to achieve immersion three times, it's very quick with timed intervals between immersion to allow the baby to breath between immersions. The actual immersion process, with all three immersions and intervals probably lasts under 10 seconds, and maybe even as little as 5 seconds.

[Salus Maior]

I'd go more with UMN's explanation than mine, though. He knows more about Orthodox ritual than I do.

I'm all Latin and stuff.

But latin is good tho

Well, I certainly think so

Now if only more churches had Latin masses *clears throat*.

[Salus Maior]

I see...

I'm trying to find a video, but most of the infant baptisms I've seen, the priest uses a font that is lengthwise, holds the baby in the way that a parent would cradle them, covers the nose and mouth, and then uses and exaggerated 'rocking' motion to achieve immersion three times, it's very quick with timed intervals between immersion to allow the baby to breath between immersions. The actual immersion process, with all three immersions and intervals probably lasts under 10 seconds, and maybe even as little as 5 seconds.

Yeah, I remember seeing that too. It was like a decent sized fountain that they were swooshing the babies through. That was also in Georgia, but I can't seem to find the video of that anymore.

It's also worth noting that the babies are never kept underwater. It's more of a dip or a swoosh.

[Kowani]

I see...

I'm trying to find a video, but most of the infant baptisms I've seen, the priest uses a font that is lengthwise, holds the baby in the way that a parent would cradle them, covers the nose and mouth, and then uses and exaggerated 'rocking' motion to achieve immersion three times, it's very quick with timed intervals between immersion to allow the baby to breath between immersions. The actual immersion process, with all three immersions and intervals probably lasts under 10 seconds, and maybe even as little as 5 seconds.

ah, makes sense
then it's normally a controlled affair

[Punished UMN]

I'm trying to find a video, but most of the infant baptisms I've seen, the priest uses a font that is lengthwise, holds the baby in the way that a parent would cradle them, covers the nose and mouth, and then uses and exaggerated 'rocking' motion to achieve immersion three times, it's very quick with timed intervals between immersion to allow the baby to breath between immersions. The actual immersion process, with all three immersions and intervals probably lasts under 10 seconds, and maybe even as little as 5 seconds.

ah, makes sense
then it's normally a controlled affair

Yeah. The article mentions it's happened once before, in 2010, so I would assume that it hasn't happened between those incidents, which would give an idea as to how rare something like this is in a country of nearly 20 million.

[Spiritual Republic of Caryton]

No, it sounds like the priest didn't conduct the baptism correctly. For the baptism of infants, the police is supposed to hold the infant's breath by closing the nasal passages and covering the mouth during immersion, uncovering when the infant emerges, and repeating the process for each of the three immersions. This sounds like the kind of thing that never happens, regardless, the Church actually does allow other methods of immersion for baptism if the priest or parents feel that traditional methods of immersion might carry health risks.

that is...safer
and so much better

In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we do not believe in baptizing babies. For people born into the church, we typically wait until the age of eight- an 'age of accountability' - to where the person being baptized better knows the significance of the event and is able to better keep the covenants associated with being baptized. Avoiding horrible accidents like these is definitely a side-effect of waiting. Similarly, adult converts get baptized by immersion as well, while keeping the same covenants. I've yet to get baptized, I'm waiting until college at which point I'd consider myself spiritually prepared for such a stage in my life.

[Banbardi]

whatever you say Mr shumel

Given your history, and that your conduct hasn't changed a bit since you were last active...
*** Banbardi, 3-day RMB ban for continued flaming/baiting. ***

banning me wont bring dead jew on a stick back to life

[Karlopetrus]

Before going home from my vacation, I thought I would check out this thread. I'm new and I did not realize there was a Christian forum.

The poll says 39% Roman Catholic. It must be said Catholics hardly agree on everything. But let's gloss over that for now.

Anyway, greetings to all my brother and sister Christians from whatever denominations and to all people of good will.

I'm a white man of British and German ancestry and I'm quite happy about that. Everyone should be happy to be whatever race they happen to be. By the way, I speak Spanish, I normally attend Spanish Mass, and I am a cultural Anglo-Latino California native. I look at every human being as unique, created in the image of God. Discriminating for or against anyone based on race is forbidden in my faith. I mention this as my Christian response to people who think otherwise.

It so happens the most important color in America is green, the color of our money. But I won't get into that now.

I actually know the solution to our social problems and I think so do all Christians. Surely we must know this, otherwise how can we call ourselves Christians? We need to follow our King. Only he can show us the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcKr6DSO-bY

[Sundiata]

Anyway, greetings to all my brother and sister Christians from whatever denominations and to all people of good will.

Welcome to our thread. We have a lot of great Christ-centered discussions here. It's exciting to see conversations develop and people learn more about the faith than they otherwise knew before. Thank you for posting.