Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Narland]

But I digress; what was the thread topic again?

Just your average chaos.

In the previous pages we had a long discussion over the maternity age of Mary.
Then some linguistic curiosity about the categorization of the catholic church.
The daily reminder that pedophilia isn't socially acceptable. As if that needs to be stated.


I personally contributed with: the spiritual state of childs. But that could not be of much interest.

Oh, since we are only one day away, what about talking about the new year?
I'm personally going to try to find something to say thanks for to God, in the about to end year. In my opinion that's more useful than making empty new year wishes or goals. As I'm thinking, the best new year wish or goal, is to have many things happening over the year, for which to say thanks, at the end of it.

Is it January 13th already? (jkng, Gregorian Calendar User)

I am thankful to God for a few good friends, a hard working family, and a good church community in which to fellowship.

[Sundiata]

I will say this, the hadith's don't go out to make Muhammad a decent husband. I don't recall Joseph ever knocking the royal hell out of Mary because she was displeased with his other wives.

[Sundiata]

Wives are also pretty great too.

Men are mostly built by women, but they are typically gendered male.

[Sundiata]

Yes, it's really unfortunate and atrocious.

However, it's a mistake to think that these are uniquely Catholic problems. This is not true.

It's not true that this is even an issue with traditionally hierarchical organizations. The SBC also had a very wide number of covered up abuses and scandals that were parallel with Catholic scandals.

That's not me playing apologetics for scandal and atrocities, of course. But it's just not true that these things are uniquely Catholic.

I agree. It's inherent I think in any religious group that has gained too much power or thinks they can get away with things. That's why I'm extremely secular. If you want to be a Catholic, that's fine, but the Church shouldn't have the power to make laws nor be the national religion, and should be forced to observe the law. Same goes for all other religions. People who violate other's rights should go to prison.

The church should have distinct roles but they shouldn't be separate, especially in moral respects.

[The Blaatschapen]

Guess who we're celebrating tomorrow you guys. Jan 1st!

The Germans call the 31st Silvester.

After this particular dude: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_I

[Sundiata]

Guess who we're celebrating tomorrow you guys. Jan 1st!

The Germans call the 31st Silvester.

After this particular dude: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Sylvester_I

I'm dumb for that.

[Benuty]

I will say this, the hadith's don't go out to make Muhammad a decent husband. I don't recall Joseph ever knocking the royal hell out of Mary because she was displeased with his other wives.

https://muflihun.com/muslim/4/2127

It's from Sahih Muslim, basically, Aisha finds out Muhammad is spending marital relations with other wives, and after Aisha gets caught being out of breath upon Muhammad's return...she decides to be honest, and he hits her. This one is relatively tame compared to some of the others, and that's saying something.

I'd suggest taking this to the other thread lest we divulge from the topic that this thread is for, however.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I agree. It's inherent I think in any religious group that has gained too much power or thinks they can get away with things. That's why I'm extremely secular. If you want to be a Catholic, that's fine, but the Church shouldn't have the power to make laws nor be the national religion, and should be forced to observe the law. Same goes for all other religions. People who violate other's rights should go to prison.

The church should have distinct roles but they shouldn't be separate, especially in moral respects.

Yes they should, as the "aspects" of "morality" often promoted included abuse in your organization's case.

[Sundiata]

The church should have distinct roles but they shouldn't be separate, especially in moral respects.

Yes they should, as the "aspects" of "morality" often promoted included abuse in your organization's case.

No, no. Predators exploit the weak and vulnerable and seek positions of power in order to do so. There's nothing inherently abusive about Catholic Social Teaching.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Yes they should, as the "aspects" of "morality" often promoted included abuse in your organization's case.

No, no. Predators exploit the weak and vulnerable and seek positions of power in order to do so. There's nothing inherently abusive about Catholic Social Teaching.

That's irrelevant. Your church is fighting to protect predators to this very day. Therefore, the state should remain out of its influence.

[Sundiata]

No, no. Predators exploit the weak and vulnerable and seek positions of power in order to do so. There's nothing inherently abusive about Catholic Social Teaching.

That's irrelevant. Your church is fighting to protect predators to this very day. Therefore, the state should remain out of its influence.

No, no. Catholic Social Teaching is relevant because that's what the morality of the state should be based upon.

I'm not talking about President Priests or Papal Prime Ministers. With that said, you're absolutely right that there are predators who do abuse their positions of power and its inexcusable to be frank.

[Luminesa]

No, no. Predators exploit the weak and vulnerable and seek positions of power in order to do so. There's nothing inherently abusive about Catholic Social Teaching.

That's irrelevant. Your church is fighting to protect predators to this very day. Therefore, the state should remain out of its influence.

The Church has slowly started work against predators within its ranks. Though the state also has a big problem with pedophiles. *Points to Epstein.*

We hope and pray that one day our problem will be solved, though. :/

[Sundiata]

What have you guys done to maintain a constant conversation with God? I personally would like to get to the point where I don't break that off at any point in the day. Essentially, being a more loyal follower of Christ.

When Jesus faced challenge he prayed habitually. He fixed his gaze upon his father before engaging in public ministry. He then proceeded to spend 40 days and nights inside of the desert praying.

Forgive me for emphasizing this, but our Messiah showed us the path that leads to his father. How do we maintain that supernatural sense with respect to all actions?

We all have times where we need intimate conversations with God. We all want to be close with him and to know him. It's easy to focus on everything Christ did and how he did them.

Before raising Lazarus from the dead why did Jesus pray? After he did, he thanked his father. Was the message there to just base everything on prayer or is there a deeper meaning that I don't understand?

[The Alma Mater]

I just read about some of the abuses conducted by the Catholic Church, especially in Ireland. I find most Catholic organizations to be grotesque as a result, and it shows why there shouldn't be that much religious influence over the state.

Yes, it's really unfortunate and atrocious.

However, it's a mistake to think that these are uniquely Catholic problems. This is not true.

It's not true that this is even an issue with traditionally hierarchical organizations. The SBC also had a very wide number of covered up abuses and scandals that were parallel with Catholic scandals.

That's not me playing apologetics for scandal and atrocities, of course. But it's just not true that these things are uniquely Catholic.

Correct, the problems are not uniquely Catholic- but they are consistently Catholic. As Sundiata said the Catholic Church "remained solid as a rock" for about 2000 years - and for 2000 years it has been a hotbed of abuse. The "changes" implemented now are mostly token and cosmetic; there is no great overhaul or redesign.

Still "solid as a rock".

[Lost Memories]

Correct, the problems are not uniquely Catholic- but they are consistently Catholic.

Can you people get an hint?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sex ... rnal_links

The church is the tip of the iceberg, the canary in the mine.
If you get issues into your local or national clergy, then you have an issue in your society at large.


Where do people think the priests come from?
Do priests sprout from the ground like potatoes?
Is it the same stork which brings babies, to also bring priests?
Do priests come from a secret cloning facility under the vatican?

Or maybe, priests come from their local community? No?


If you people are truly worried for the safety of kids getting abused, then stop scapegoating the church for it, or using that tragedy for the same century old english smear tactics against political opponents.

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'm not saying the church is the only one to have this problem, but what pisses me off, is that the Church goes to absurd lengths to protect those predators and silence whistleblowers.

[Salus Maior]

Yes, it's really unfortunate and atrocious.

However, it's a mistake to think that these are uniquely Catholic problems. This is not true.

It's not true that this is even an issue with traditionally hierarchical organizations. The SBC also had a very wide number of covered up abuses and scandals that were parallel with Catholic scandals.

That's not me playing apologetics for scandal and atrocities, of course. But it's just not true that these things are uniquely Catholic.

Correct, the problems are not uniquely Catholic- but they are consistently Catholic. As Sundiata said the Catholic Church "remained solid as a rock" for about 2000 years - and for 2000 years it has been a hotbed of abuse. The "changes" implemented now are mostly token and cosmetic; there is no great overhaul or redesign.

Still "solid as a rock".

You and I both know there's no way of verifying whether abuse was a constant in the Catholic Church over 2000 years. It would be incredible if anyone could get that kind of sociological information in any society over the course of 2000 years.

Secondly, everyone here takes the scandals in the Church incredibly seriously.

[San Kalungsod Saludong]

I'm not saying the church is the only one to have this problem, but what pisses me off, is that the Church goes to absurd lengths to protect those predators and silence whistleblowers.

How many times do I have to repeat this? Public School Teachers have higher rates of sexual abuse of children than priests and yet priests are the ones scapegoated.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media- ... in-school/

[The Marlborough]

If any institution were to be toppled and destroyed because of abuses, then we'd have no institutions left. I believe there is an old anecdote about Napoleon threatening the Church with destruction and the cardinals laughing at him and saying something like "If we haven't been able to destroy it ourselves (as in the clergy) in eighteen hundred years, what makes you think you will?".

[Knica Eas]

I have a general question :

What is / are the role(s) of Egypt within Christian scripture?

[Sundiata]

I have a general question :

What is / are the role(s) of Egypt within Christian scripture?

Egypt is pretty significant. For example, are you familiar with the story of Joseph in the Old Testament?

[Kowani]

I have a general question :

What is / are the role(s) of Egypt within Christian scripture?

villain, mostly

[The Archregimancy]

I have a general question :

What is / are the role(s) of Egypt within Christian scripture?

villain, mostly

And a historically inaccurate one for the most part, too; at least in the Old Testament.


On the New Testament front, though... when I was living in Cairo, I had the opportunity to visit the church on the site of where, according to Coptic tradition, the Holy Family sheltered while in Egypt.

Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saints_Se ... (Abu_Serga)

By coincidence, my Arabic teacher was a Copt who worked as a tour guide at the church in her spare time. Lovely young woman.


Though the well that Coptic tradition holds that they used is ... I write this with all due reverence ... perhaps slightly tackier than it might be. I've found a picture:

[The Blaatschapen]

villain, mostly

And a historically inaccurate one for the most part, too; at least in the Old Testament.


On the New Testament front, though... when I was living in Cairo, I had the opportunity to visit the church on the site of where, according to Coptic tradition, the Holy Family sheltered while in Egypt.

Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saints_Se ... (Abu_Serga)

By coincidence, my Arabic teacher was a Copt who worked as a tour guide at the church in her spare time. Lovely young woman.


Though the well that Coptic tradition holds that they used is ... I write this with all due reverence ... perhaps slightly tackier than it might be. I've found a picture:

Yeah, using modern day English makes it incredibly tacky. Like, tourist central.

[Knica Eas]

I have a general question :

What is / are the role(s) of Egypt within Christian scripture?

Egypt is pretty significant. For example, are you familiar with the story of Joseph in the Old Testament?

No, I am not yet familiar with the details. I know that Joseph was appointed to an important position within the Egyptian court, but don't understand the significance of that fact.