Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Tarsonis]

I see that especially with the Evangelicals and Prosperity Ilk Trollz just mentioned. But With the Apostolic Churches like Catholics and Orthodox, that materialism is needs to be understood in context. (I.e Gothic cathedrals are so tall because the they're supposed to give the impression of being under heaven. Cathedrals themselves are gigantic buildings in stark contrast to the villages they were built around. It's a form of visual evangelization, which was necessary for a mostly illiterate populace.)

I love grand cathedrals my problem were the very obvious swindlers, i think religions should use traditional style

Have you considered Orthodoxy? You might find that your speed. I'd recommend talking to The Archregimancy about it. *Blows Conch Shell*

[Lord Dominator]

Because Christianity makes certain moral proclamations that don't sit well with the modern crowd. Plus the Church itself is in desperate need of a Pope Pius XIII

Im torn between lutheranism and neo paganism

I'm curious how you got to those two - the only similarities I can think of are region of origin and the relationship via-a-vis the ancient (Catholic, for Luther) church.

[Tarsonis]

I have another issue though

This is going to sound mean and i dont totally mean it this way

I consider christianity a “invasive” faith, not natural to native europeons,

I mean, historically that would be accurate. But that proposes the idea of "innate" religions.

[New Steuben]

Im torn between lutheranism and neo paganism

I'm curious how you got to those two - the only similarities I can think of are region of origin and the relationship via-a-vis the ancient (Catholic, for Luther) church.

Germanic ancestery

[Lord Dominator]

I'm curious how you got to those two - the only similarities I can think of are region of origin and the relationship via-a-vis the ancient (Catholic, for Luther) church.

Germanic ancestery

Ah, so the relative similarity in place of origin. Certainly not what I'd consider in deciding a religion (perhaps because I don't have a good connection to any sense of ancestry).

[Tarsonis]

I'm curious how you got to those two - the only similarities I can think of are region of origin and the relationship via-a-vis the ancient (Catholic, for Luther) church.

Germanic ancestery

dude

[Suriyanakhon]

I had a somewhat (controversial) question that I hesitated to ask for a few days because my intent isn't incendiary. Me and Sun had a conversation in the Feminist Discussion Thread about transgender people and the Roman Catholic Church, and how the RCC doesn't accept the identity of transgender people. My question is about someone who has already transitioned medically, legally, and/or surgically. If such a person were to convert to the RCC or Orthodox Church, what would their status be and what would the Church's opinion of what they should do be?

This is a purely speculative question, please don't interpret is as me being open to being convinced to detransition.

Well i don't go to a RCC or orthdox church but my church is not bothered by homosexuals', transgender's, etc, but that does not mean we are for transgender surgery or gay marriage. If a homosexual asks me honestly how do they get close to god, i would tell him/her to give up their homosexuitaly. But i'm not gonna tell every gay person, "oh your a mistake" etc. Gay people are still people. Trans people are still people. So that's my take on it. I would guess that the RCC is more strict on that. But idk since the pope says he supports gay/trans civil rights groups.

My question wasn't really about gays and was focused on the RCC and Orthodox Church's opinions rather than Protestants (which there are so many Protestant denominations it's hard to tell what they all believe).

[Tarsonis]

I had a somewhat (controversial) question that I hesitated to ask for a few days because my intent isn't incendiary. Me and Sun had a conversation in the Feminist Discussion Thread about transgender people and the Roman Catholic Church, and how the RCC doesn't accept the identity of transgender people. My question is about someone who has already transitioned medically, legally, and/or surgically. If such a person were to convert to the RCC or Orthodox Church, what would their status be and what would the Church's opinion of what they should do be?

This is a purely speculative question, please don't interpret is as me being open to being convinced to detransition.

Honestly....I don't know. With the prospect of "detransitioning" there'd be more ethics to consider than just the transgender aspect. Medical ethics and the like.

[Lord Dominator]

Well i don't go to a RCC or orthdox church but my church is not bothered by homosexuals', transgender's, etc, but that does not mean we are for transgender surgery or gay marriage. If a homosexual asks me honestly how do they get close to god, i would tell him/her to give up their homosexuitaly. But i'm not gonna tell every gay person, "oh your a mistake" etc. Gay people are still people. Trans people are still people. So that's my take on it. I would guess that the RCC is more strict on that. But idk since the pope says he supports gay/trans civil rights groups.

My question wasn't really about gays and was focused on the RCC and Orthodox Church's opinions rather than Protestants (which there are so many Protestant denominations it's hard to tell what they all believe).

The answer to that is: if you look through enough of them, basically every given opinion on social issues.

[New Steuben]

Germanic ancestery

Ah, so the relative similarity in place of origin. Certainly not what I'd consider in deciding a religion (perhaps because I don't have a good connection to any sense of ancestry).

Im also gay and married so that brings up other issues

[Lord Dominator]

Ah, so the relative similarity in place of origin. Certainly not what I'd consider in deciding a religion (perhaps because I don't have a good connection to any sense of ancestry).

Im also gay and married so that brings up other issues

If you were to go with Lutheranism (and are in the US) you'd want the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is not associated with the Evangelicals despite the name).

[Tarsonis]

Ah, so the relative similarity in place of origin. Certainly not what I'd consider in deciding a religion (perhaps because I don't have a good connection to any sense of ancestry).

Im also gay and married so that brings up other issues

Well the Pope made waves on that issue recently. Give it time, I'd say.

[New Steuben]

Im also gay and married so that brings up other issues

If you were to go with Lutheranism (and are in the US) you'd want the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is not associated with the Evangelicals despite the name).

They seem kind of “leftist” idk something dosnt seem right

[Albrenia]

Im also gay and married so that brings up other issues

Well the Pope made waves on that issue recently. Give it time, I'd say.

I think I've said it before, but I rather approve of the current Pope.

I'm not really the target audience though, so that might not actually be a good thing.

[Lord Dominator]

If you were to go with Lutheranism (and are in the US) you'd want the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, which is not associated with the Evangelicals despite the name).

They seem kind of “leftist” idk something dosnt seem right

They are the liberal denomination of American Lutherans - I mention them because they're the only large one that's specifically alright with gay marriage (in that they allow individual pastors to preform or not such marriages, and around 2/3 of the denomination supports such).

[New Steuben]

They seem kind of “leftist” idk something dosnt seem right

They are the liberal denomination of American Lutherans - I mention them because they're the only large one that's specifically alright with gay marriage (in that they allow individual pastors to preform or not such marriages, and around 2/3 of the denomination supports such).

Yeah i get that, i just dont like a lot of the “vibe”

[Tarsonis]

Well the Pope made waves on that issue recently. Give it time, I'd say.

I think I've said it before, but I rather approve of the current Pope.

I'm not really the target audience though, so that might not actually be a good thing.

It's a difficult topic for us, to say the least.

[New Steuben]

I think I've said it before, but I rather approve of the current Pope.

I'm not really the target audience though, so that might not actually be a good thing.

It's a difficult topic for us, to say the least.

I find him to be very weak personally.

[Tarsonis]

It's a difficult topic for us, to say the least.

I find him to be very weak personally.

I think he's a weak leader, but not a weak theologian.

[New Steuben]

I find him to be very weak personally.

I think he's a weak leader, but not a weak theologian.

The problem is that, as the pope, he is supposed to be a leader so he is failing his title

But thats just my opinjon

[Tarsonis]

I think he's a weak leader, but not a weak theologian.

The problem is that, as the pope, he is supposed to be a leader so he is failing his title

But thats just my opinjon

Eh, he's head of the earthly Church, so theres an element of truth to that. But the Church is ultimately bigger than the Pope, and the Pope's most basic obligation is to really just not commit heresy.

[Nihon no Tengoku]

As somebody who comes from (TWO) cultures that are extremely 'pagan,' or at least polytheistic & shamanistic, I have a fairly negative impression against this kind of religious practice. Granted, I am a practicing Christian so I am going to be extremely biased in my assessment.

In one of my homelands, these polytheistic institutions are fairly predatory and have a lot of problematic historical baggage that come with them. Of course, in all fairness, similar accusations have been (perhaps rightly) leveraged against institutional Christianity in the west so it's probably nothing intrinsic about paganism itself. I will say, however, that shamanism's appeal is largely over romanticized.

One major problem with traditional worship - at least as I saw growing up - is that it pretty much provides an extremely superficial spiritual experience while also being as predatory (as I mentioned before) as any Western cult or religion can be. Like going to a temple or watching old rites is cool, but there's very little encouragement for introspection or prayer or any kind of real spiritual experience. Likewise, I have somehow also had an aunt go into crippling debt because she kept getting duped into paying the exorbitant fees for an exorbitant shamaness.

I am aware that European paganism may be nothing like this but I can't help but imagine it's similar. If I'm wrong, I'd love to be dissuaded.

[New Steuben]

As somebody who comes from (TWO) cultures that are extremely 'pagan,' or at least polytheistic & shamanistic, I have a fairly negative impression against this kind of religious practice. Granted, I am a practicing Christian so I am going to be extremely biased in my assessment.

In one of my homelands, these polytheistic institutions are fairly predatory and have a lot of problematic historical baggage that come with them. Of course, in all fairness, similar accusations have been (perhaps rightly) leveraged against institutional Christianity in the west so it's probably nothing intrinsic about paganism itself. I will say, however, that shamanism's appeal is largely over romanticized.

One major problem with traditional worship - at least as I saw growing up - is that it pretty much provides an extremely superficial spiritual experience while also being as predatory (as I mentioned before) as any Western cult or religion can be. Like going to a temple or watching old rites is cool, but there's very little encouragement for introspection or prayer or any kind of real spiritual experience. Likewise, I have somehow also had an aunt go into crippling debt because she kept getting duped into paying the exorbitant fees for an exorbitant shamaness.

I am aware that European paganism may be nothing like this but I can't help but imagine it's similar. If I'm wrong, I'd love to be dissuaded.

I havnt heard of paying for things in euro paganism

I will say i knew a wiccan who consantly paid to have cards read and he was willing to pay a lot of money every session, i did not like this.

[New Steuben]

Do you all consider islam a abrahamic faith or a cult that latched onto abrahamic style.

[Tarsonis]

Do you all consider islam a abrahamic faith or a cult that latched onto abrahamic style.

I can't say I see a meaningful difference between the two. Regardless of how they started they worship the God of Abraham.