NationStates

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
You kind of do need to be part of a Church. How else do you receive the sacraments?

Salus Maior wrote:
I mean, Jesus would disagree but hey.

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Nubia isn't a Catholic.

And also neither of us are being that harsh with you. It's a fair criticism.

Lower Nubia wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.

You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Salus Maior wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Nubia isn't a Catholic.

And also neither of us are being that harsh with you. It's a fair criticism.

I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.

You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Sacraments like Baptism and the Eucharist were ordained by Christ Himself for the church to do. You can't do them alone. Not to mention the more necessary forms of the sacraments.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

1 Kings 8:10; "And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord."

Oof.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
You kind of do need to be part of a Church. How else do you receive the sacraments?

Salus Maior wrote:
I mean, Jesus would disagree but hey.

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Well, which manner of death would you prefer? We take requests.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

According to...?

Lower Nubia wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.

I would rather just look at Jesus, did Jesus teach to stay alone?
Or did he say, among other things: "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:20)

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Yeah... no.
A church in the sense talked about by Geneviev, and to which we all replied to, was not just a building, but a community.

One can't be in communion by themselves. Communion is a very important part of being christian. So a christian being alone, without meeting others and without sharing with others, without a community, is a contradiction.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread.

I'm actually playing with the idea of creating a new christian discussion thread, with a catholic free clause and see if more non-catholics would come out of the woods because of it, but i dunno if it's a valid idea yet

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Yeah... no.
A church in the sense talked about by Geneviev, and to which we all replied to, was not just a building, but a community.

"the Church" with Capital letter = Community.
"A church" with miniscule letter = building.

Yes, I know that Hebrew, Greek and Latin Bibles were written before the Capital/ miniscule distinction was invented. But now we have that distinction, let's use it.

Narland wrote:

Pax Nerdvana wrote:I know I've never really talked about religion here on NS, mainly because I'm not very good at it. Anyway, I just got back from a missions trip that I went on through my church. It was a small town, filled with rundown houses and empty lots. While there, I think I found my calling in life. I think God is trying to tell me to learn a trade and use those skills to fix up broken down houses in places like that, free of charge to the residents. Sorry if I'm incoherent and rambling. I'm not good at talking about religion.

Thank you for posting this. It is a blessing to have a sense of direction and calling in one's life. Not everyone has a sense of surety with what God has called them to do. But God uses us as vessels of honour when we seek his face openly and with humility. He is faithful.

Amen to that! I'm grateful to Him for showing me where I need to go.

Lower Nubia wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Sacraments like Baptism and the Eucharist were ordained by Christ Himself for the church to do. You can't do them alone. Not to mention the more necessary forms of the sacraments.

Didn't say you could.

1 Kings 8:10; "And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord."

Oof.

Cool info about a specific event during the ancient history of Israel.

Not sure what it has to do with what I said, tho.

Tarsonis wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Alternative theological positions: *exist*

Catholics: "And so, you will die a heretic's death."

Well, which manner of death would you prefer? We take requests.

Old Age.

Salus Maior wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

According to...?

Simple logic.

Why would a metaphysical being need a physical building to be worshiped? Isn't God all around us?

Lost Memories wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.

I would rather just look at Jesus, did Jesus teach to stay alone?
Or did he say, among other things: "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." (Matthew 18:20)

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Yeah... no.
A church in the sense talked about by Geneviev, and to which we all replied to, was not just a building, but a community.

One can't be in communion by themselves. Communion is a very important part of being christian. So a christian being alone, without meeting others and without sharing with others, without a community, is a contradiction.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread.

I'm actually playing with the idea of creating a new christian discussion thread, with a catholic free clause and see if more non-catholics would come out of the woods because of it, but i dunno if it's a valid idea yet

Auristania wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Yeah... no.
A church in the sense talked about by Geneviev, and to which we all replied to, was not just a building, but a community.

"the Church" with Capital letter = Community.
"A church" with miniscule letter = building.

Yes, I know that Hebrew, Greek and Latin Bibles were written before the Capital/ miniscule distinction was invented. But now we have that distinction, let's use it.

Okay, now this is "oof" worthy.

Yeah, I goofed and got the two mixed up. My bad. Long day at work; tired; ready for the weekend; wasn't thinking straight. Sorry about that.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Salus Maior wrote:
Nubia isn't a Catholic.

And also neither of us are being that harsh with you. It's a fair criticism.

I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

Hello, Lutheran here. Lower Nubia and the Romanists in this thread are right. I believe that the church catholic includes all true Christian churches, not just the Roman Church. There is nothing wrong with having a personal relationship with Jesus, but being a Christian neccesarily involves being a member of the Christian community, ie. the church, and receiving the sacraments.

New Visayan Islands wrote:

Geneviev wrote:I'm surprised that I didn't get more suggestions for Catholicism. Anyway, thank you.

See? CDT isn't an all-Catholic thread.

Yes it is.

I appreciate it anyway though.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:
Well, which manner of death would you prefer? We take requests.

Old Age.

....... we are no longer taking requests.

Salus Maior wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

According to...?

Might be my protestant upbringing but this I actually agree with. Churches are wonderful, and the history behind their development is fascinating, but at the end of the day they are just brick and mortar, Temporal testaments to an Eternal Truth. Pull down every statue, dismantle each church brick by brick, burn the vatican to the ground, and the Church is not diminished. The Church is, and always will be, the people.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
Sacraments like Baptism and the Eucharist were ordained by Christ Himself for the church to do. You can't do them alone. Not to mention the more necessary forms of the sacraments.

Didn't say you could.

If you can’t do them alone, where are you doing them?

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote: 1 Kings 8:10; "And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord."

Oof.

Cool info about a specific event during the ancient history of Israel.

Not sure what it has to do with what I said, tho.

What? How can you not see what it has to say; God has used stone and earth as his home before, and now. Making your comment redundant.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.

You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Salus Maior wrote:
Nubia isn't a Catholic.

And also neither of us are being that harsh with you. It's a fair criticism.

I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

It’s not like gatekeeping doesn’t happen in other, non-religious threads as well, but yes.
Arnaud, GET THE SWORD.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Geneviev wrote:I'm looking for a new church right now, but I have no idea what denomination it should be. Do you have any suggestions for where I should go?

Remember that you don't need to be part of a church if you don't want to be. I'm not and I'm fine with it. Doesn't make you any less Christian.

And those who say it does are probably "Prosperity Gospel" swindlers trying to con you out of your money.

Whoa now, hey. If I had a $10 million mansion in Houston, I would have said something about it by now.

I think the biggest problem for any Christian in the world these days is the total invasion of Pagan idolatry into the secular world.

Just try to walk into a shop without religious symbols on clothes, jewelry, and other accessories, or a restaurant without Buddha statues, or a book store filled to the brim with new age works posing as philosophy rather than religion.

Auristania wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Yeah... no.
A church in the sense talked about by Geneviev, and to which we all replied to, was not just a building, but a community.

"the Church" with Capital letter = Community.
"A church" with miniscule letter = building.

Yes, I know that Hebrew, Greek and Latin Bibles were written before the Capital/ miniscule distinction was invented. But now we have that distinction, let's use it.

Auri made a succinct, poignant, and elegantly intelligible post. Is this the end?

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Lower Nubia wrote:
Are there any valid Christian theologies which discount the need of the sacraments which also can also be found in the duty, life and mission of the Church for the last 2,000 years? Not 500? No.

You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.

Salus Maior wrote:
Nubia isn't a Catholic.

And also neither of us are being that harsh with you. It's a fair criticism.

I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

The accusation of gatekeeping implies that there are legitimate alternative ideas, which doesn't really jive when we're talking about religion. Was Irenaeus "gatekeeping" when he told the Gnostics that their idea's were wrong? The council of Nicea "gatekeeping" when they decided the Arians' beliefs were tantamount to blasphemy? When Chalcedon threw Nestorious out?

This isn't a fandom, it's religion. A religion that professes to possess the True Faith cannot abide contradictory claims. This thread isn't a hangout, it's a debate and discussion thread. Hell, I wish it was a hangout thread sometimes, but when we get too chatty, Arch cracks the whip and tells us to get back to debating.


There's only a handful of catholics who post regularly. If Protestants want a better presence here they need to carve it out for themselves, like our Orthodox posters have....well had. A lot left due to external reasons.

Tarsonis wrote:

Auristania wrote:"the Church" with Capital letter = Community.
"A church" with miniscule letter = building.

Yes, I know that Hebrew, Greek and Latin Bibles were written before the Capital/ miniscule distinction was invented. But now we have that distinction, let's use it.

Auri made a succinct, poignant, and elegantly intelligible post. Is this the end?

This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend
The end of our elaborate plans
The end of ev'rything that stands
The end
No safety or surprise
The end
I'll never look into your eyes again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need of
some strangers hand
In a desperate land
Lost in a Roman wilderness of pain
And all the children are insane
All the children are insane
Waiting for the summer rain
There's danger on the edge of town
Ride the king's highway
Weird scenes inside the goldmine
Ride the highway West baby
Ride the snake
Ride the snake
To the lake
To the lake
The ancient lake baby
The snake is long
Seven miles
Ride the snake
He's old
And his skin is cold
The west is the best
The west is the best
Get here and we'll do the…

Bienenhalde wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

Hello, Lutheran here. Lower Nubia and the Romanists in this thread are right. I believe that the church catholic includes all true Christian churches, not just the Roman Church. There is nothing wrong with having a personal relationship with Jesus, but being a Christian neccesarily involves being a member of the Christian community, ie. the church, and receiving the sacraments.

By being a Christian and interacting with fellow Christians you are, by default, part of the community. I never said otherwise.

Lower Nubia wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Didn't say you could.

If you can’t do them alone, where are you doing them?

Right now? Nowhere. Haven't been to church in years. I'd like to, really, but I find most churches unable to deliver an engaging service. While I'm sure the standard service might be enough for a more devout person, I'm really not that devout so I can't garner interest. There was one church I went to that had a very cool service where they even brought a rock band on stage, engaged with the crowd on a personal level, made a few light-hearted jokes here and there, advertised for a local charity they worked with, and some other stuff that kind of broke from the traditional church service. If I ever can bring myself to attend another church I might try to find one like that.

What? How can you not see what it has to say; God has used stone and earth as his home before, and now. Making your comment redundant.

See, to me it's saying the Holy Spirit blessed a temple. Unless there's supposed to be a symbolic meaning behind it then it seems rather un-noteworthy.

Rosmana wrote:I think the biggest problem for any Christian in the world these days is the total invasion of Pagan idolatry into the secular world.

Just try to walk into a shop without religious symbols on clothes, jewelry, and other accessories, or a restaurant without Buddha statues, or a book store filled to the brim with new age works posing as philosophy rather than religion.

Honestly if you're getting your knickers in a twist over something as trivial as that then maybe religion isn't for you.

Now let's talk about real issues Christians face like violent persecution in the Middle East, China, and India.

Tarsonis wrote:

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
You're the only one who brought up sacraments, dude. I didn't say anything about them.

Churches are just buildings. Physical, material constructs of no real consequence. Temporary and finite. God needs no temples on Earth.



I didn't say it wasn't. I half-joking by making a Skyrim reference to dab on the Catholic gate-keeping that occurs so often in this thread. Just a little light-hearted, humor is all.

The accusation of gatekeeping implies that there are legitimate alternative ideas, which doesn't really jive when we're talking about religion. Was Irenaeus "gatekeeping" when he told the Gnostics that their idea's were wrong? The council of Nicea "gatekeeping" when they decided the Arians' beliefs were tantamount to blasphemy? When Chalcedon threw Nestorious out?

This isn't a fandom, it's religion. A religion that professes to possess the True Faith cannot abide contradictory claims. This thread isn't a hangout, it's a debate and discussion thread. Hell, I wish it was a hangout thread sometimes, but when we get too chatty, Arch cracks the whip and tells us to get back to debating.


There's only a handful of catholics who post regularly. If Protestants want a better presence here they need to carve it out for themselves, like our Orthodox posters have....well had. A lot left due to external reasons.

You can debate without gatekeeping, and this thread is pretty strongly gatekept by Catholics that have little tolerance for other Christian denominations. Deny it if you wish, I'm not the only one whose noticed.

Also I'm not a Protestant.

We have to love the Lord. Trying to reciprocate his love has been the most fruitful challenge of my life and I am thankful for all that he gives.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Bienenhalde wrote:
Hello, Lutheran here. Lower Nubia and the Romanists in this thread are right. I believe that the church catholic includes all true Christian churches, not just the Roman Church. There is nothing wrong with having a personal relationship with Jesus, but being a Christian neccesarily involves being a member of the Christian community, ie. the church, and receiving the sacraments.

By being a Christian and interacting with fellow Christians you are, by default, part of the community. I never said otherwise.

Lower Nubia wrote:
If you can’t do them alone, where are you doing them?

Right now? Nowhere. Haven't been to church in years. I'd like to, really, but I find most churches unable to deliver an engaging service. While I'm sure the standard service might be enough for a more devout person, I'm really not that devout so I can't garner interest. There was one church I went to that had a very cool service where they even brought a rock band on stage, engaged with the crowd on a personal level, made a few light-hearted jokes here and there, advertised for a local charity they worked with, and some other stuff that kind of broke from the traditional church service. If I ever can bring myself to attend another church I might try to find one like that.

What? How can you not see what it has to say; God has used stone and earth as his home before, and now. Making your comment redundant.

See, to me it's saying the Holy Spirit blessed a temple. Unless there's supposed to be a symbolic meaning behind it then it seems rather un-noteworthy.

Rosmana wrote:I think the biggest problem for any Christian in the world these days is the total invasion of Pagan idolatry into the secular world.

Just try to walk into a shop without religious symbols on clothes, jewelry, and other accessories, or a restaurant without Buddha statues, or a book store filled to the brim with new age works posing as philosophy rather than religion.

Honestly if you're getting your knickers in a twist over something as trivial as that then maybe religion isn't for you.

Now let's talk about real issues Christians face like violent persecution in the Middle East, China, and India.

Tarsonis wrote:
The accusation of gatekeeping implies that there are legitimate alternative ideas, which doesn't really jive when we're talking about religion. Was Irenaeus "gatekeeping" when he told the Gnostics that their idea's were wrong? The council of Nicea "gatekeeping" when they decided the Arians' beliefs were tantamount to blasphemy? When Chalcedon threw Nestorious out?

This isn't a fandom, it's religion. A religion that professes to possess the True Faith cannot abide contradictory claims. This thread isn't a hangout, it's a debate and discussion thread. Hell, I wish it was a hangout thread sometimes, but when we get too chatty, Arch cracks the whip and tells us to get back to debating.


There's only a handful of catholics who post regularly. If Protestants want a better presence here they need to carve it out for themselves, like our Orthodox posters have....well had. A lot left due to external reasons.

You can debate without gatekeeping, and this thread is pretty strongly gatekept by Catholics that have little tolerance for other Christian denominations. Deny it if you wish, I'm not the only one whose noticed.

Anybody can post here. The only person I've ever intervened to stop their line of inquiry was Menassa, simply because it was the like the 15th iteration of said argument, and even then I'm not sure I made the right call.


You're comments about gatekeeping are just moaning that agree to disagree isn't something we really do here.

I'm not a Protestant.

Non-denominational Christianity is Protestantism, even if you don't like the label.

Tarsonis wrote:Non-denominational Christianity is Protestantism, even if you don't like the label.

Non-denomination is the specific rejection of any denomination, including Protestantism. You can't simultaneously be denominational and non-denominational. That makes no sense.

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:

Tarsonis wrote:Non-denominational Christianity is Protestantism, even if you don't like the label.

Non-denomination is the specific rejection of any denomination, including Protestantism. You can't simultaneously be denominational and non-denominational. That makes no sense.

Non-denominational nicene Christianity is by its very nature protestant, because any nicene Christianity that isn't part of the ancient churches is protestant.