Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Bienenhalde]

The seamless garment of life is a logical conclusion of Catholic Theology. The Catholic view of death is unimpeachable, No Abortion, No Euthanasia, No Capital Punishment.

Catholic teaching is beautiful in that it is comprehensive. However, pro-abortion politicians use the seamless garment argument to justify their continued desire for legal abortion. There should be no precondition to ending the termination of human life in the womb. The USCCB is clear that abortion remains the preeminent issue in American politics. We can fight for a society that fully embraces the beauty of life, but abortion is the chief impediment to this realization.

I mean, I find it frustrating that pro-abortion politicians try to twist the concept of the "whole life ethic" just to paint their opponents as hypocrits while doing nothing to actually stop abortion, but we shouldn't necessarily pretend that fusionist corporate shills that care more about companies' profits than human life are that much better.

[Sundiata]

Supposedly Christian politicians failing to oppose abortion is a problem, but I hardly see how libertarians have any moral high ground here. If you support unregulated, unlimited access to guns and oppose a welfare state that proper provides proper support for the poor and especially for mothers and children, you cannot honestly call yourself "pro-life".

Ah, seamless garment nonsense.

I don't think it's entirely nonsense.

I have reservations about abortion and support public provisions for the poor. Honestly, I also think we need to take gun violence seriously. Mass shootings happen far too often. We can also accomplish this without stigmatizing people who experience mental health struggles.

[Sundiata]

The sad part is Catholics aren't nearly as unified as nativists imagined. Catholic voters and Catholic politicians are scattered across American politics, as the opinions of Biden, Pelosi, and Roberts show. The division in Catholic voting does make us valuable "swing voters," but we're not a unified voting bloc.

That's true, I agree with both Democrats and Republicans depending on the issue.

[Hakons]

Catholic teaching is beautiful in that it is comprehensive. However, pro-abortion politicians use the seamless garment argument to justify their continued desire for legal abortion. There should be no precondition to ending the termination of human life in the womb. The USCCB is clear that abortion remains the preeminent issue in American politics. We can fight for a society that fully embraces the beauty of life, but abortion is the chief impediment to this realization.

Article 6 of the Constitution states that the Constitution, not religious doctrine, is the Supreme Law of the Land. A Catholic Politician must operate under this frame work.

Advocating for the end of abortion is entirely lawful under the Constitution. The interpretation and application of the Constitution is also something that can be swayed quite a bit. Under the principle of ralliement, we must do what we can under the existing framework for Catholic teaching while still shifting the framework allow more and more Catholic teaching.

[Aeritai]

President Trump has declared that "places of worship" are now essential.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/t ... is-weekend

Opinions on this? I am glad that the President is doing this, but my only hope is that this will not backfire. For now we just need to have Faith in God to protect and guide us.

[Tarsonis]

Article 6 of the Constitution states that the Constitution, not religious doctrine, is the Supreme Law of the Land. A Catholic Politician must operate under this frame work.

Advocating for the end of abortion is entirely lawful under the Constitution. The interpretation and application of the Constitution is also something that can be swayed quite a bit. Under the principle of ralliement, we must do what we can under the existing framework for Catholic teaching while still shifting the framework allow more and more Catholic teaching.

Advocating and Legislating aren't the same thing.

[Celritannia]

President Trump has declared that "places of worship" are now essential.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/t ... is-weekend

Opinions on this? I am glad that the President is doing this, but my only hope is that this will not backfire. For now we just need to have Faith in God to protect and guide us.

He cannot, nor should not be able to do this.

[Diopolis]

Advocating for the end of abortion is entirely lawful under the Constitution. The interpretation and application of the Constitution is also something that can be swayed quite a bit. Under the principle of ralliement, we must do what we can under the existing framework for Catholic teaching while still shifting the framework allow more and more Catholic teaching.

Advocating and Legislating aren't the same thing.

It's not at all clear that the constitution protects the right to abortion, and in any case, God's law must come first.

[The New California Republic]

President Trump has declared that "places of worship" are now essential.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/t ... is-weekend

Opinions on this? I am glad that the President is doing this, but my only hope is that this will not backfire. For now we just need to have Faith in God to protect and guide us.

Are they actually essential though? Many of them have successfully made the move towards giving alternate versions of the activities that usually take place inside buildings so that they can be done without them, so calling them essential and treating the use of the buildings as if they are some time-critical thing that can't wait is just wrong.

[Tarsonis]

Advocating and Legislating aren't the same thing.

It's not at all clear that the constitution protects the right to abortion, and in any case, God's law must come first.

By Law, the Constitution comes first.

[Diopolis]

It's not at all clear that the constitution protects the right to abortion, and in any case, God's law must come first.

By Law, the Constitution comes first.

The same holds for gassing Jews in Nazi Germany.

[Tarsonis]

By Law, the Constitution comes first.

The same holds for gassing Jews in Nazi Germany.

Godwin would be proud.

[Diopolis]

The same holds for gassing Jews in Nazi Germany.

Godwin would be proud.

It is, however, the relevant comparison. Some things are obviously evil to the point where it doesn't matter what the law is.

[Cekoviu]

The Catholics are always finding scruples with their Popes.

Well the Pope is a man, subject to all the issues that involves.

Good point -- the Pope should be a woman instead!

[Diopolis]

Well the Pope is a man, subject to all the issues that involves.

Good point -- the Pope should be a woman instead!

Habet testiculos et bene pendant or give me death!

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

The legalization of abortion hasn’t increased abortion. If anything, the proliferation of comprehensive sex education and access to contraceptives has brought the U.S. abortion rate to its lowest levels ever, below than what they were at when Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973. It’s based on the Fourth Amendment, which guarantees people the right to be secure in their persons from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to privacy.

[Tarsonis]

Godwin would be proud.

It is, however, the relevant comparison. Some things are obviously evil to the point where it doesn't matter what the law is.

But congress cannot override the Constitution to implement God's law, as the Legally the Constitution is the highest law in the land. A civil servant must work within the Confines of the constitution, if they cannot then they should resign their post. This was the Kim Davis issue.

[Diopolis]

It is, however, the relevant comparison. Some things are obviously evil to the point where it doesn't matter what the law is.

But congress cannot override the Constitution to implement God's law, as the Legally the Constitution is the highest law in the land. A civil servant must work within the Confines of the constitution, if they cannot then they should resign their post. This was the Kim Davis issue.

And Himmler can't override Hitler to stop the final solution. He should just have resigned his post.

[Brunswick-upon-Raritan]

The Constitution = Hitler? What?

[The New California Republic]

The Constitution = Hitler? What?

It's just a Godwin, don't worry about it.

[Northern Davincia]

The legalization of abortion hasn’t increased abortion. If anything, the proliferation of comprehensive sex education and access to contraceptives has brought the U.S. abortion rate to its lowest levels ever, below than what they were at when Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973. It’s based on the Fourth Amendment, which guarantees people the right to be secure in their persons from unreasonable search and seizure, the right to privacy.

To the contrary, the rates were far, far lower before Roe v. Wade. The right to privacy is irrelevant.

[Luminesa]

Article 6 of the Constitution states that the Constitution, not religious doctrine, is the Supreme Law of the Land. A Catholic Politician must operate under this frame work.

Advocating for the end of abortion is entirely lawful under the Constitution. The interpretation and application of the Constitution is also something that can be swayed quite a bit. Under the principle of ralliement, we must do what we can under the existing framework for Catholic teaching while still shifting the framework allow more and more Catholic teaching.

^ Catholic politicians should hold Catholic views.

[Salus Maior]

The same holds for gassing Jews in Nazi Germany.

Godwin would be proud.

Alright then, how about slavery?

Slavery was constitutional, and technically so was Dred Scott.

[South Odreria 2]

Godwin would be proud.

Alright then, how about slavery?

Slavery was constitutional, and technically so was Dred Scott.

And what is your analogy for helping escaped slaves?

[Salus Maior]

Alright then, how about slavery?

Slavery was constitutional, and technically so was Dred Scott.

And what is your analogy for helping escaped slaves?

There doesn't have to be.

The point is that something gravely immoral was constitutional, and to some extent the constitution had to be bent or outright ignored in order for that to be changed.

And certainly so if the South didn't make it easier by committing mass treason.