Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Stratocratic-Anarchy Oceanic Empire]

Nah, I'd say they're trying to bring more attention to the LGBTQ+ peeps. But to be honest, I would be surprised if the Pope does end up excommunicating those priests. I doubt they are even worried of getting excommunicated, they know the Pope needs people to see his good side.

They're technically already excommunicated, I believe.

Dang, well I'm surprised then.

[Tarsonis]

They're technically already excommunicated, I believe.

Dang, well I'm surprised then.

Not from the Pope, but rather latae sententiae. Automatic excommunication incurred due to an egregious act. It's dicey here though, as blessing an LGBT union isn't specifically specified in the code, but it would be a breach of the sacraments which is a no no.

[Tarsonis]

I'm sure they will, but that's not exactly a goodthing

Well, I can’t really argue if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. Although I do strongly disagree with the Churches teachings on LGBT issues. I’m just saying what will happen with the rebellious priests. Heck, they probably are part of the LGBT community themselves.

I don't care much for the teachings either, personally, but Sacramental Dogma can't change with out God pulling the sky back and saying it's been changed.

[North Washington Republic]

Well, I can’t really argue if it’s a good thing or a bad thing. Although I do strongly disagree with the Churches teachings on LGBT issues. I’m just saying what will happen with the rebellious priests. Heck, they probably are part of the LGBT community themselves.

I don't care much for the teachings either, personally, but Sacramental Dogma can't change with out God pulling the sky back and saying it's been changed.

And that why I choose apostasy rather than trying to change the church.

[Tarsonis]

I don't care much for the teachings either, personally, but Sacramental Dogma can't change with out God pulling the sky back and saying it's been changed.

And that why I choose apostasy rather than trying to change the church.

Not really how that works, but okay.

[Sundiata]

Most of all, it's sad to lose priests to Satan.

That might be going too far. They're really trying to help people and do the right thing.

I don't doubt it because we all want and need love. Satan exploits that.

[North Washington Republic]

And that why I choose apostasy rather than trying to change the church.

Not really how that works, but okay.

Oh, you believe apostasy isn’t a choice?

[Tarsonis]

Not really how that works, but okay.

Oh, you believe apostasy isn’t a choice?

No it is. But, it's not a particularly dignified position, even if you might feel like it is. You think you're snubbing the Church and taking a stand that the Church is wrong, but on an issue like this, you're really saying that God is wrong. Sacramental theology is afforded the level of Dogma because it comes directly from God. Which is why it cannot be changed unless God "peels back the sky" and says it's changed, because God put it into effect in the first place. The Church cannot change the doctrine, even if the Church wanted to (and I'm sure quite a few would love to), because the Church can't overrule God.

[North Washington Republic]

Oh, you believe apostasy isn’t a choice?

No it is. But, it's not a particularly dignified position, even if you might feel like it is. You think you're snubbing the Church and taking a stand that the Church is wrong, but on an issue like this, you're really saying that God is wrong. Sacramental theology is afforded the level of Dogma because it comes directly from God. Which is why it cannot be changed unless God "peels back the sky" and says it's changed, because God put it into effect in the first place. The Church cannot change the doctrine, even if the Church wanted to (and I'm sure quite a few would love to), because the Church can't overrule God.

And that is your right to believe that I’m going to hell. I’m a deist, and I don’t believe in divine revelation, sacraments or divine dogmas.

[Lord Dominator]

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/99579683 ... rtion-righ

Interesting stuff - I just learned from the source links as well that Congress is rather more religious than the country at large (perhaps not surprising), while Republican members of Congress are a majority of the Protestant members & Democrats of the Catholic members (the other religions break down basically how you’d expect).

[Tarsonis]

No it is. But, it's not a particularly dignified position, even if you might feel like it is. You think you're snubbing the Church and taking a stand that the Church is wrong, but on an issue like this, you're really saying that God is wrong. Sacramental theology is afforded the level of Dogma because it comes directly from God. Which is why it cannot be changed unless God "peels back the sky" and says it's changed, because God put it into effect in the first place. The Church cannot change the doctrine, even if the Church wanted to (and I'm sure quite a few would love to), because the Church can't overrule God.

And that is your right to believe that I’m going to hell.

I didn't say that. Naturally it would be wrong for me to make any determinations on people's salvation. Hell for all we know the Sentalise people got it right and we're all royally screwed.

I’m a deist, and I don’t believe in divine revelation, sacraments or divine dogmas.

Well, in that case I wouldn't go around calling yourself an apostate. I mean, while technically correct, apostate in the Catholic sense generally brings to mind Christians who still follow the faith but have left the Church. And I was simply giving the Catholic perspective of that type of situation.

Naturally, if you've left the faith entirely, that wouldn't really matter then.

[North Washington Republic]

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995796836/vatican-warns-u-s-bishops-about-denying-communion-to-supporters-of-abortion-righ

Interesting stuff - I just learned from the source links as well that Congress is rather more religious than the country at large (perhaps not surprising), while Republican members of Congress are a majority of the Protestant members & Democrats of the Catholic members (the other religions break down basically how you’d expect).

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

[Nevertopia]

u know not to be offensive or anything but do you guys ever feel like the white nationalist types use the bible's "chosen people" aspect to mean "whites only"? Ive been thinking about how the christian God that supposedly loves everyone could be ok with the radicalized biblethumping south's history of calling for the oppression of minorities and they just dont match up.

[Nevertopia]

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995796836/vatican-warns-u-s-bishops-about-denying-communion-to-supporters-of-abortion-righ

Interesting stuff - I just learned from the source links as well that Congress is rather more religious than the country at large (perhaps not surprising), while Republican members of Congress are a majority of the Protestant members & Democrats of the Catholic members (the other religions break down basically how you’d expect).

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

lol jokes on them, they lost me after they started screwing choir boys.

[North Washington Republic]

u know not to be offensive or anything but do you guys ever feel like the white nationalist types use the bible's "chosen people" aspect to mean "whites only"? Ive been thinking about how the christian God that supposedly loves everyone could be ok with the radicalized biblethumping south's history of calling for the oppression of minorities and they just dont match up.

Because white nationalists have their own theology Although, I’ve seen younger white nationalists either embrace pagan religions or they’re atheists.

[Tarsonis]

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995796836/vatican-warns-u-s-bishops-about-denying-communion-to-supporters-of-abortion-righ

Interesting stuff - I just learned from the source links as well that Congress is rather more religious than the country at large (perhaps not surprising), while Republican members of Congress are a majority of the Protestant members & Democrats of the Catholic members (the other religions break down basically how you’d expect).

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

Shame really. Abortion is a sticky situation for a Catholic politician, and I agree with Bishop McElroy, they're trying to weaponize the eucharist for political motives which is just despicable

[Tarsonis]

u know not to be offensive or anything but do you guys ever feel like the white nationalist types use the bible's "chosen people" aspect to mean "whites only"? Ive been thinking about how the christian God that supposedly loves everyone could be ok with the radicalized biblethumping south's history of calling for the oppression of minorities and they just dont match up.

White nationalists will try to exploit anything they can to support their racism, it's not exactly new.

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

lol jokes on them, they lost me after they started screwing choir boys.

So edgy. Much wow.

[Luminesa]

u know not to be offensive or anything but do you guys ever feel like the white nationalist types use the bible's "chosen people" aspect to mean "whites only"? Ive been thinking about how the christian God that supposedly loves everyone could be ok with the radicalized biblethumping south's history of calling for the oppression of minorities and they just dont match up.

I don’t think you’re being offensive by making that suggestion, white nationalism is very insidious and white nats have used the Bible in very nefarious ways. Obviously an extreme example, but the Nazis created an entire branch of pseudo-Christianity to make it look like Jesus (a Jew) hated Jews and was white. “Positive” Christianity. Ultimately it comes down to Jesus telling St. Peter, “Get behind me Satan, you think as man thinks, not as God thinks.” Many white nats think in their own myopic worldview about the Church, when in reality the Church is meant to be universal - for ALL people.

[Luminesa]

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

lol jokes on them, they lost me after they started screwing choir boys.

And then this sad, tired joke after you asked a legitimate question. Come on man. -___-

[Sundiata]

u know not to be offensive or anything but do you guys ever feel like the white nationalist types use the bible's "chosen people" aspect to mean "whites only"? Ive been thinking about how the christian God that supposedly loves everyone could be ok with the radicalized biblethumping south's history of calling for the oppression of minorities and they just dont match up.

Well, the first love of my life is a Jew: Jesus. The second love of my life is Mary most holy, Virgin and Mother of the Jewish man Jesus, my Mother and your Mother. Jesus Christ is alive this Easter season and he is Jewish.

[Joohan]

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

Shame really. Abortion is a sticky situation for a Catholic politician, and I agree with Bishop McElroy, they're trying to weaponize the eucharist for political motives which is just despicable

Expecting the church to be consistent with it's own dogma is hardly weaponization of the eucharist. Despite what some idealists would like to believe, the church is, always has been, and will never not be involved in politics. Though we are above secular politics, we are not removed from it, and if we wish to the further mission set down to us then we must engage with the temporal forces that rule the world. If reaffirming our stance against something that's been deemed so objectively evil that it merits excommunication is considered too controversial a move then we've obviously failed in our duties.

[Most Catholic Empire of Antarctica]

Shame really. Abortion is a sticky situation for a Catholic politician, and I agree with Bishop McElroy, they're trying to weaponize the eucharist for political motives which is just despicable

Expecting the church to be consistent with it's own dogma is hardly weaponization of the eucharist. Despite what some idealists would like to believe, the church is, always has been, and will never not be involved in politics. Though we are above secular politics, we are not removed from it, and if we wish to the further mission set down to us then we must engage with the temporal forces that rule the world. If reaffirming our stance against something that's been deemed so objectively evil that it merits excommunication is considered too controversial a move then we've obviously failed in our duties.

Was about to say something to that effect. The gravity of the situation is only heightened when we are considering very public figures. The failure of the church to openly chastise them wrongly gives many people, including a lot of self-described western Catholics the illusion that there is room for discussion or change on this position, or that it is not as serious as it actually is. If you believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church, you believe that an enormous government-sanctioned slaughter of quite literally millions of innocents has been perpetrated across the world in recent times- this year alone 15 million have been murdered across the world; likely it is the largest destruction of innocent life period in Human history. People were hanged at Nuremberg for less. I think it will be fine to deny such people communion for the good of the public, to avoid scandal concerning church teaching, and for the good of the soul of those excluded.

[Luminesa]

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995796836/vatican-warns-u-s-bishops-about-denying-communion-to-supporters-of-abortion-righ

Interesting stuff - I just learned from the source links as well that Congress is rather more religious than the country at large (perhaps not surprising), while Republican members of Congress are a majority of the Protestant members & Democrats of the Catholic members (the other religions break down basically how you’d expect).

It is most certainly a matter of walking the tightrope, which is what I believe the Vatican has been trying to do for some time. Abortion is a non-negotiable issue in the Church, but I’m not sure if it’s going to really change Biden’s policy toward the Church that much. Chances are he probably knows he is already self-excommunicated. We must pray for our Catholic leaders that they best represent what Catholicism should look like for their constituents, because many of them currently don’t.

[Sundiata]

I was wrong about the church's teaching on abortion. I thought that it was morally permissible in some instances but I was gravely mistaken. It is never acceptable to will the death of an innocent person even to save the life of an innocent person. I apologize to you all for that mistake.

[Salus Maior]

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/11/995796836/vatican-warns-u-s-bishops-about-denying-communion-to-supporters-of-abortion-righ

Interesting stuff - I just learned from the source links as well that Congress is rather more religious than the country at large (perhaps not surprising), while Republican members of Congress are a majority of the Protestant members & Democrats of the Catholic members (the other religions break down basically how you’d expect).

The Vatican warning about denying communion to supporters of abortion rights is going to push more trads into the sede position.

I don’t see how that logic tracks.

How would affirming opposition to abortion make trads schismatic?