Christian Discussion Thread XI: Anicetus’ Revenge

[Herzpunkt]

All religions have their sects and splinter groups.

Yea but why soo many? Some of those "Sects" literally split off because of what day they go or how they take communion

Good point

[North Washington Republic]

All religions have their sects and splinter groups.

Yea but why soo many? Some of those "Sects" literally split off because of what day they go or how they take communion

Theological differences between Christians is a lot deeper and complicated than how they give out communion.

[Lady Victory]

Christianity is more divided than Africa

There are far more countries in Africa than there are denominations in the broader Christian Church.

Also... "Born Again Believer, Non-Religious,"

Care to explain this contradiction?

[Lady Victory]

Yea but why soo many? Some of those "Sects" literally split off because of what day they go or how they take communion

Good point

No it isn't. It's not even true.

[Tarsonis]

Not any more convenient than the heads of the Church being infallible collectively on certain decisions, like the Ecumenical Councils. Which the Orthodox Church believes.

Yes, but that seems much more sensible than suggesting a single person can be infallible, even under limited circumstances.

Oh ffs, did you have to dig this back up?

Yes, but that seems much more sensible than suggesting a single person can be infallible, even under limited circumstances.

I have a hard time believing that the Bible endorses that one person can be infallible, especially in terms of faith and morals.

*smacks head against the wall repeatedly*


It woukd help if y'all actually took to time to learn these doctrines instead of smugly titling at falsehoods and misconceptions

[North Washington Republic]

Yes, but that seems much more sensible than suggesting a single person can be infallible, even under limited circumstances.

Oh ffs, did you have to dig this back up?

I have a hard time believing that the Bible endorses that one person can be infallible, especially in terms of faith and morals.

*smacks head against the wall repeatedly*


It woukd help if y'all actually took to time to learn these doctrines instead of smugly titling at falsehoods and misconceptions

Relax and don’t give yourself a concussion, mate. I’m aware of the doctrine of papal infallibility. I’m just saying it isn’t found and/or endorsed by the Bible.

The other Roman Catholic doctrine that is obvious to me that isn’t biblical is the immaculate conception. There’s nowhere in the Bible that it states Mary was a sinless women, nor that she wasn’t born with original sin.

[Tarsonis]

Oh ffs, did you have to dig this back up?



*smacks head against the wall repeatedly*


It woukd help if y'all actually took to time to learn these doctrines instead of smugly titling at falsehoods and misconceptions

Relax and don’t give yourself a concussion, mate. I’m aware of the doctrine of papal infallibility. I’m just saying it isn’t found and/or endorsed by the Bible.

No. You're not. Because you just described it incorrectly. Hence the frustration.

The other Roman Catholic doctrine that is obvious to me that isn’t biblical is the immaculate conception. There’s nowhere in the Bible that it states Mary was a sinless women, nor that she wasn’t born with original sin.

It doesn't have to be expressly stated in the bible to be doctrinally sound.

[Dylar]

Christianity is more divided than Africa

There are far more countries in Africa than there are denominations in the broader Christian Church.

I think the official number for Christian denominations is somewhere around 30,000, but that's mostly counting each individual non-denominational church as their own denomination, since no two non-denominational churches are alike

[Tarsonis]

There are far more countries in Africa than there are denominations in the broader Christian Church.

I think the official number for Christian denominations is somewhere around 30,000, but that's mostly counting each individual non-denominational church as their own denomination, since no two non-denominational churches are alike

Also includes things like UU, LDS, and JW which are pretty much their own religions

[North Washington Republic]

Relax and don’t give yourself a concussion, mate. I’m aware of the doctrine of papal infallibility. I’m just saying it isn’t found and/or endorsed by the Bible.

No. You're not. Because you just described it incorrectly. Hence the frustration.

The other Roman Catholic doctrine that is obvious to me that isn’t biblical is the immaculate conception. There’s nowhere in the Bible that it states Mary was a sinless women, nor that she wasn’t born with original sin.

It doesn't have to be expressly stated in the bible to be doctrinally sound.

I believe I do have an understanding of the dogma of papal infallibility, I just disagree with it.

Let is discuss the dogma of the Immaculate conception specifically. The doctrine goes against Romans 3:23. It says ALL have sinned and fallen short the glory of God.

[North Washington Republic]

I think the official number for Christian denominations is somewhere around 30,000, but that's mostly counting each individual non-denominational church as their own denomination, since no two non-denominational churches are alike

Also includes things like UU, LDS, and JW which are pretty much their own religions

I never really understood the point of UU. It’s everything and nothing at the same time.

[Tarsonis]

No. You're not. Because you just described it incorrectly. Hence the frustration.




It doesn't have to be expressly stated in the bible to be doctrinally sound.

I believe I do have an understanding of the dogma of papal infallibility, I just disagree with it.

In your statement against it, you miss stated it. I have no issue if you truly understand the the doctrine and disagree. But you've demonstrated you don't. For starters the doctrine doesn't state any man is infallible, it states that the Holy Spirit is infallible, and preserves the Pope from error. It's a a crucial bit of semantics.

Let is discuss the dogma of the Immaculate conception specifically. The doctrine goes against Romans 3:23. It says ALL have sinned and fallen short the glory of God.

All right, are we including Jesus in that All?

[Tarsonis]

Also includes things like UU, LDS, and JW which are pretty much their own religions

I never really understood the point of UU. It’s everything and nothing at the same time.

Well on that we agree.

[Lady Victory]

Oh ffs, did you have to dig this back up?



*smacks head against the wall repeatedly*


It woukd help if y'all actually took to time to learn these doctrines instead of smugly titling at falsehoods and misconceptions

Relax and don’t give yourself a concussion, mate. I’m aware of the doctrine of papal infallibility. I’m just saying it isn’t found and/or endorsed by the Bible.

The other Roman Catholic doctrine that is obvious to me that isn’t biblical is the immaculate conception. There’s nowhere in the Bible that it states Mary was a sinless women, nor that she wasn’t born with original sin.

Things do not have to be in the Bible in order to be legitimate. That's not how theology works.

There are far more countries in Africa than there are denominations in the broader Christian Church.

I think the official number for Christian denominations is somewhere around 30,000, but that's mostly counting each individual non-denominational church as their own denomination, since no two non-denominational churches are alike

An individual church does not a denomination make. Even being generous, there is no possible way there is anywhere close to being 30,000 denominations within Christianity. The only way such a number could be reached is if we draw up arbitrary boundaries that have no real reason to exist. Are we to treat the Moscow Patriarchate and the Ecumenical Patriarchate as different denominations even when they're both Eastern Orthodox? Are the Churches of Sweden, Denmark, and Norway to be treated as separate denominations even when they all follow Lutheran doctrine and principles? Are Eastern Catholics, though distinct from their Roman counterparts, not still Catholics and thus part of the greater Catholic Church and the denomination of Catholicism? Where are the lines being drawn, here? Maybe it's true that no two non-denominational churches are alike, but if they identify as non-denominational in the first place does that not make them part of a 'non-denominational' denomination? Are they not, technically, still Protestants regardless? Are we distinguishing certain Protestants from one another and putting each group (e.g. Calvinists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc.) in it's own denomination? What about Anglicanism: is it it's own denomination, a part of Catholicism, or a part of Protestantism? Are we to include what I dare say aren't even Christian faiths at all, such as Universal Unitarianism or Mormonism, as "Christian" denominations?

Where are the lines being drawn?

Also includes things like UU, LDS, and JW which are pretty much their own religions

I never really understood the point of UU. It’s everything and nothing at the same time.

It's a New Age feel-good hippie movement, so of course it's everything and nothing at the same time. It's inclusive spirituality for the sake of inclusive spirituality.

[Luminesa]

No. You're not. Because you just described it incorrectly. Hence the frustration.




It doesn't have to be expressly stated in the bible to be doctrinally sound.

I believe I do have an understanding of the dogma of papal infallibility, I just disagree with it.

Let is discuss the dogma of the Immaculate conception specifically. The doctrine goes against Romans 3:23. It says ALL have sinned and fallen short the glory of God.

Our belief on Mary comes from a couple of things: A.) early Church tradition, B.) Old Testament typography, and C.) revelations in the form of visions (Our Lady of Lourdes).

Because you’d probably prefer answers related to B, the biggest indicator is Isaiah, specifically the prophecy given to Ahaz when he refuses to tempt the Lord by asking for a favor:
“Then he said, “Listen now, house of David! Is it too trivial a thing for you to try the patience of men, that you will try the patience of my God as well? 14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and she will name Him Immanuel. 15 He will eat curds and honey at the time He knows enough to refuse evil and choose good.” (Isaiah 7:13-15)

At times people thought this prophecy pointed to Hezekiah, but Immanuel, as far as I know, only refers to one baby in the Bible. That is the Infant Jesus.

[Kedri]

All religions have their sects and splinter groups.

Yea but why soo many? Some of those "Sects" literally split off because of what day they go or how they take communion

Some of it is human nature. Some people will take trivial differences way too seriously. "The way you do communion isn't just wrong, but I don't even want to be apart of the same denomination as you," for example.

Also, I think the way it counts denominations is by counting some of them more than once. Like, the RCC in North America is counted as a separate denomination from the one in Europe.

[New Visayan Islands]

Good thing the guys doing TLM in my city have a virtual option, what with COVID cases spiking here.

And the padres are being rotated to other churches in the diocese, so that's also a thing; once COVID cases drop I'll probably be taking public transport to the church where most of the guys doing TLM have be rotated to.

[North Washington Republic]

Good thing the guys doing TLM in my city have a virtual option, what with COVID cases spiking here.

And the padres are being rotated to other churches in the diocese, so that's also a thing; once COVID cases drop I'll probably be taking public transport to the church where most of the guys doing TLM have be rotated to.

Have Priests still been giving communion on the tongue during this pandemic. For myself, if I ever go to mass again, I wouldn’t take communion on the tongue, even if the Priest insisted.

I can’t anyway, I’m an apostate.

[New Visayan Islands]

Good thing the guys doing TLM in my city have a virtual option, what with COVID cases spiking here.

And the padres are being rotated to other churches in the diocese, so that's also a thing; once COVID cases drop I'll probably be taking public transport to the church where most of the guys doing TLM have be rotated to.

Have Priests still been giving communion on the tongue during this pandemic. For myself, if I ever go to mass again, I wouldn’t take communion on the tongue, even if the Priest insisted.

I can’t anyway, I’m an apostate.

Nope, it's all on the hand...which is why the TLM crowd gives communion just after the Mass.

And come home already!

[Salus Maior]

All religions have their sects and splinter groups.

Yea but why soo many? Some of those "Sects" literally split off because of what day they go or how they take communion

Because of Protestantism, really.

But more particularly, those that don’t have an episcopal structure with an emphasis on apostolic succession. While these concepts don’t completely stop schism, they are a speed bump and completely disallow Johnny Random with a Bible from starting his own church on whatever theology he cooks up.

[Lady Victory]

Yea but why soo many? Some of those "Sects" literally split off because of what day they go or how they take communion

Because of Protestantism, really.

But more particularly, those that don’t have an episcopal structure with an emphasis on apostolic succession. While these concepts don’t completely stop schism, they are a speed bump and completely disallow Johnny Random with a Bible from starting his own church on whatever theology he cooks up.

That didn't seem to stop the Lollards, Waldensians, Arians, Cathars, Bogomils, Iconoclasts, Adamites, Messalians, Monophysites, Paulicians, etc.

[Tarsonis]

Because of Protestantism, really.

But more particularly, those that don’t have an episcopal structure with an emphasis on apostolic succession. While these concepts don’t completely stop schism, they are a speed bump and completely disallow Johnny Random with a Bible from starting his own church on whatever theology he cooks up.

That didn't seem to stop the Lollards, Waldensians, Arians, Cathars, Bogomils, Iconoclasts, Adamites, Messalians, Monophysites, Paulicians, etc.

And where are they now?

[Sundiata]

Have Priests still been giving communion on the tongue during this pandemic. For myself, if I ever go to mass again, I wouldn’t take communion on the tongue, even if the Priest insisted.

I can’t anyway, I’m an apostate.

Nope, it's all on the hand...which is why the TLM crowd gives communion just after the Mass.

And come home already!

I always get so excited to receive the sacraments. God shares his goodness with us no matter how many times we fall.

[Kowani]

Catholic Church beatifies Rosario Livatino, an Italian judge killed by Cosa Nostra in 1990

talian judge Rosario Livatino, who was killed by the Mafia in Sicily in 1990, was beatified on Sunday, the last stage before possible sainthood in the Roman Catholic Church. Livatino was gunned down by a Mafia hit squad, which shot at his car as he was driving along a Sicilian highway. Despite the risks, he had refused an armed escort. He tried to flee his attackers, but was caught and killed in a field.

Known as the "boy judge" because he looked younger than his 37 years, Livatino had led many investigations into the mob at a time when Sicilian clans were involved in a full-blown war.

He was beatified at a service in Agrigento cathedral in Sicily, where a glass box containing his bloodstained shirt was put on display as a relic. Speaking to pilgrims in the Vatican City, Pope Francis praised the young magistrate.

"In his service to the community as an upstanding judge, who never allowed himself to become corrupt, he strived to judge not to condemn but to rehabilitate," Francis said.

"May his example be for everyone, especially for judges, an incentive to be loyal defenders of lawfulness and freedom." [...] Pope Francis put him on the road to possible sainthood in December, approving a decree of martyrdom which meant there was no need for a miracle to be attributed to Livatino's intercession with God for him to be beatified.

[Lady Victory]

That didn't seem to stop the Lollards, Waldensians, Arians, Cathars, Bogomils, Iconoclasts, Adamites, Messalians, Monophysites, Paulicians, etc.

And where are they now?

It's a funny thing, really.

They say you can't kill an idea, but killing all the people who believe in that idea seems to produce the desired results all the same.

Catholic Church beatifies Rosario Livatino, an Italian judge killed by Cosa Nostra in 1990

talian judge Rosario Livatino, who was killed by the Mafia in Sicily in 1990, was beatified on Sunday, the last stage before possible sainthood in the Roman Catholic Church. Livatino was gunned down by a Mafia hit squad, which shot at his car as he was driving along a Sicilian highway. Despite the risks, he had refused an armed escort. He tried to flee his attackers, but was caught and killed in a field.

Known as the "boy judge" because he looked younger than his 37 years, Livatino had led many investigations into the mob at a time when Sicilian clans were involved in a full-blown war.

He was beatified at a service in Agrigento cathedral in Sicily, where a glass box containing his bloodstained shirt was put on display as a relic. Speaking to pilgrims in the Vatican City, Pope Francis praised the young magistrate.

"In his service to the community as an upstanding judge, who never allowed himself to become corrupt, he strived to judge not to condemn but to rehabilitate," Francis said.

"May his example be for everyone, especially for judges, an incentive to be loyal defenders of lawfulness and freedom." [...] Pope Francis put him on the road to possible sainthood in December, approving a decree of martyrdom which meant there was no need for a miracle to be attributed to Livatino's intercession with God for him to be beatified.

Isn't the perquisite for martyrdom to be killed either while attempting to spread the Christian faith or was killed because of their Christian faith? It sounds like this guy got killed for going after the mob which, while noble, doesn't seem to have anything to do with Christianity? Unless I'm missing something here...